List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[Prexm]

OUT: Adams, Ginnivan, Bianco, Ruscoe, Draper, Murley, Wilson

IN: Schulz

Wilson was a category B, and I think we may have been 1 extra from the Dean LTI. I believe that leaves us with 4 more lost spots remaining. We also still have Begg & Kelly TBC.

I suspect we take 2 to in the ND and 2 rookies, 1 of which may be a mature delisted player.

We don’t have to care now whether or not Begg and Johnson have to be promoted as we have the spots on the primary list then leaving 2 rookie spots as you have said.

 

[Fruit]

IMO its our biggest issue. Any of the good key forwards have a field day against us. Joe Daniher was not too far off winning the NORM SMITH medal in the GF. Curnow and Jeremy Cameron regularly kick bags against us.

In fact if you take out Jeremy CAMERON from last year, we win the QF and possibly the GF. In 2109, we would have made the GF with no Cameron in the PF for GWS. In 2018, take out KENNEDY for WC and we probably win , although the injury curse did not help there.

All the defenders you named are incapable of shutting down the good KFs. Darcy Moore, our best key defender had more goals kicked on him in 2023 than any other KD bar the the Essendon duo of Zirk-Thatcher and Laverde, neither of whom are actually true KD's.

I am surprised that we have not, so far, targeted a good KD, because we damn well need one.

As for the rest of the trade period, it looks a pass, although if a premiership hangover or injuries hit us next year, it will look pretty bad.

You are right but we do play an attacking style of defence which allows a few easy goals but at the same time saves a lot more.
I actually think Billy could be our best lock down defender but we prefer to go with Howe and Murphy with Darce and we can’t play all 4 at the same time.

 

[Scodog10]

There's absolutely no reason for him to ask for permission now, they aren't training or have a GF to play next day.

He's simply taking the piss, again.

I’m not one that had an issue with the silks on mad Monday because that day is about letting your hair down and having fun. This one for me though should be a real kick in the guts for the fan boys/ girls amongst us! Being that disrespectful to Fly who treated him with such empathy is more than a bit shit… It’s also the exact reason the compensation was a bit meh in the eyes of some. He wasn’t the same insidious presence Stephenson was in the hubs, but he’s a distraction we can do without.

 

[Seedsfan]

We have had a poor trade period. There is no two ways about it.

Paid too much for Schultz and gave Ginivan away for nothing.

Didn’t manage to get any coverage for Nathan Murphy

28

Nathan Murphy

Age

25

Ht

192cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

3star

MG

176.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

4star

MG

176.5

3star

if his concussion’s force him into retirement

As we sit we are weaker now than going into the trade period

We also lost depth in Adams, while he was getting towards the end I’d have more confidence in him performing when it counts if Mitchell went down then say a Fin Macrae

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

Could we bring in Scott Lycett?

Why would we, he is beyond cooked.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We have had a poor trade period. There is no two ways about it.

Paid too much for Schultz and gave Ginivan away for nothing.

Didn’t manage to get any coverage for Nathan Murphy if his concussion’s force him into retirement

As we sit we are weaker now than going into the trade period

.

Might have paid a little overs for Shultz but it’s players that win you flags, not draft selections, and there’s always a premium to land a target. Ginnivans value was about right for a player with lots of positives and negatives in equal measures…. small move up the draft in 2023 and a bigger move up next year ( based on 2023 ladder positions, picking up roughly pick 22 and giving away 36)

Frampton is the immediate cover for Murphy should we lose him so untrue we have no cover. Maybe we get another DFA so off-season far from complete…. We also have begg that the club may have faith in to develop as a key back.

 

[Scodog10]

OUT: Adams, Ginnivan, Bianco, Ruscoe, Draper, Murley, Wilson

IN: Schulz and Markov

Wilson was a category B, and I think we may have been 1 extra from the Dean LTI. I believe that leaves us with 4 more lost spots remaining. We also still have Begg & Kelly TBC.

I suspect we take 2 to in the ND and 2 rookies, 1 of which may be a mature delisted player.

Happy to be corrected here, but I believe AJ is about to be added to the senior list. I’d be surprised if we don’t take a 3rd pick in the ND (mature ager like Mannagh) or bring in a DFA. I think that leaves 1 rookie spot because Markov takes Murley’s and Begg remains up in the air.

If the above is accurate I’d retain Begg, pass on the RD and keep a spot open for the SSP. I have a horrible feeling though that Lycett will be the DFA, Begg is delisted and we take a pick in the rookie draft…

 

[Go Woods]

Free agents of interest in 2024:
Ben Keays
Sean Darcy
Tyson Stengle
Zach Guthrie
Ben Ainsworth
Harry Perryman
Conor Nash
Cam Zurhaar
Willem Drew
Toby Nankervis
Will Hayward

Cam Zurhaar the pick of the bunch.

 

[Scodog10]

.

Might have paid a little overs for Shultz but it’s players that win you flags, not draft selections, and there’s always a premium to land a target. Ginnivans value was about right for a player with lots of positives and negatives in equal measures…. small move up the draft in 2023 and a bigger move up next year ( based on 2023 ladder positions, picking up roughly pick 22 and giving away 36)

Frampton is the immediate cover for Murphy should we lose him so untrue we have no cover. Maybe we get another DFA so off-season far from complete

No might about it. We definitely have not paid overs for Schultz.

If he remains the player he is he becomes a 150 game 200+ goal player for Collingwood which is worth the deal we made every day of the week regardless of where we sit in the premiership window.

 

[Seedsfan]

.

Might have paid a little overs for Shultz but it’s players that win you flags, not draft selections, and there’s always a premium to land a target. Ginnivans value was about right for a player with lots of positives and negatives in equal measures…. small move up the draft in 2023 and a bigger move up next year ( based on 2023 ladder positions, picking up roughly pick 22 and giving away 36)

Frampton is the immediate cover for Murphy should we lose him so untrue we have no cover. Maybe we get another DFA so off-season far from complete

Frampton also covers that depth forward and ruck role

Ginivan was well unders the Hawks will be just outside the 8 next year

 

[Hugg]

English football has promotion and relegation. We don't.

If we had an open market, West Coast, Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton would dominate from the difference in investment. Our financial weight would price nearly all others out of the market. Footy's special because we have heartbreak and hardships. Not because we always win. 2023 meant something to us because of 2018, 2011, 2003, 2002, etc.

The EPL is not a fair competition and it's nearly impossible for Leicester or any other side to challenge. There have been noble efforts - West Ham, Brighton - but they can't match the dominance of Manchester City or the other big sides. I'm a Burnley fan in the EPL and it would shock me to see us win a title.

It's not so much every team should get their turn - St Kilda - but it should be somewhat competitive so you don't spend fifty years as an irrelevant side as happens in the EPL.

The bleeding heart has arrived
Subsidize the inefficient

 

[Go Woods]

Don’t mean to intrude. I come in peace.

Welcome to Club 16

Mother in law is maaaddd Collingwood so naturally a fair bit of discussion happens about your mob.

Cannot believe they didn’t try to work with Ginnivan and straighten him out…even if the rumours were true. Of all the clubs he chooses the *en Hawks…

Massively targeted for a 20 year old by everyone including the media…felt bad for him for a bit there…to me he gave the Pies that spark and got them and the crowd up and about. It’s like he was made for a big club and the circus it brings.

He’s only 20. Massive upside…Enjoyed watching him. Nearly sad not to see him in the black and white lol

Schultz is a good pickup though.

Agree with you, saw Ginni as a mainstay with the Pies after his 2022 season.
I would of held onto him and given him 2024 to take his fitness and game to another level, but I'm not in the club's inner sanctum.
I wish him all the best, (except against Pies) I certainly won't be booing him.
Still super excited about our chances at back to back in 2024.

 

[sam_e]

Happy to be corrected here, but I believe AJ is about to be added to the senior list. I’d be surprised if we don’t take a 3rd pick in the ND (mature ager like Mannagh) or bring in a DFA. I think that leaves 1 rookie spot because Markov takes Murley’s and Begg remains up in the air.

If the above is accurate I’d retain Begg, pass on the RD and keep a spot open for the SSP. I have a horrible feeling though that Lycett will be the DFA, Begg is delisted and we take a pick in the rookie draft…

Correct. Based on current rules AJ and Begg are termed out as rooks and either need to be promoted to main or let go. AJ contracted & definitely up to main list whilst Begg is uncontracted (afaik) and a ‘swing’ factor as it currently stands.

So AJ + 3 or AJ and Begg + 2 for the main list.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Frampton also covers that depth forward and ruck role

Ginivan was well unders the Hawks will be just outside the 8 next year

Begg and Steene will have another year under their belts and will also be potential ruck depth and in Begg’s case potentially key defence.. We still have Kreuger and Johnson as well, .

Frampton will return to what he’s best at….key defence. Which is basically what he did on grand final day except at the other end of the ground.

Whether we need another tall to potentially replace Murphy who has been written off by bigfooty experts….. tee still have four list spots open for that eventuality.

 

[Seedsfan]

Ginnivan trade feels like a move that Richmond would have made in their flag years. Trade role players while they have some value rather than getting in a bidding war to retain them. Higgins is a good example.

In previous years I reckon we would have offered an extra year or two at more $ to keep Adams & Ginnivan and ended up screwing our cap.

They were both contracted, we didn’t have to screw up our cap or offer anything different

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

No might about it. We definitely have not paid overs for Schultz.

If he remains the player he is he becomes a 150 game 200+ goal player for Collingwood which is worth the deal we made every day of the week regardless of where we sit in the premiership window.

As I said, picks are just numbers. They don’t win you flags. It’s players that do that.

 

[Seedsfan]

Begg and Steene will have another year under their belts and will also be potential ruck depth and in Begg’s case potentially key defence.. We still have Kreuger and Johnson as well, .

Frampton will return to what he’s best at….key defence. Which is basically what he did on grand final day except at the other end of the ground.

Whether we need another tall to potentially replace Murphy who has been written off by bigfooty experts….. tee still have four list spots open for that eventuality.

Murphy is one of my favourites, I hope his health lets him continue. The fact he has seen fit to get assessed by an independent specialist is concerning. Not just for the immediate future but for what happens if he gets concussed again.

There is no way we are going to look to role Begg or Steene out as the first ruck in the seniors. Begg being a defender is also just a big footy fantasy

 

[Ugene41]

Ginnivan trade feels like a move that Richmond would have made in their flag years. Trade role players while they have some value rather than getting in a bidding war to retain them. Higgins is a good example.

In previous years I reckon we would have offered an extra year or two at more $ to keep Adams & Ginnivan and ended up screwing our cap.

Except Higgins trade actually netted them a small first round upgrade and a straight second round pick.

No problems trading Ginnivan but we couldn't even get a straight second round pick and effectively just got a F3 and a ~6 place upgrade in 2x second rounds. In a worse case scenario where we fall off the cliff, we could effectively be paying Hawks to take Ginnivan.

We just get absolutely no value from trading our role players.

 

[Seedsfan]

As I said, picks are just numbers. They don’t win you flags. It’s players that do that.

Picks become players. Our future first with guys like Ugle-Hagan and Logan McDonald out of contract next year could have been used to get us something of value

 

[davywap]

Is Mackie the biggest schmuck in the league currently? Low balled us on Henry, refused to engage on Ratugalea and then caves once he twigs it was a fair offer!

Was as a player so no shock here.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I’m not one that had an issue with the silks on mad Monday because that day is about letting your hair down and having fun. This one for me though should be a real kick in the guts for the fan boys/ girls amongst us! Being that disrespectful to Fly who treated him with such empathy is more than a bit s**t… It’s also the exact reason the compensation was a bit meh in the eyes of some. He wasn’t the same insidious presence Stephenson was in the hubs, but he’s a distraction we can do without.

The “not a basic footballer” was a flashing neon sign too.

I don’t care about him going to the races, and I don’t care about him going to Mad Monday as Craig Williams.

Asking Sam Mitchell if he can go to the races this week is disrespectful to McRae, and a cry for attention.

You don’t disrespect your (premiership) coach, and you don’t disrespect the playing group by calling them “basic”.

 

[Scodog10]

As I said, picks are just numbers. They don’t win you flags. It’s players that do that.

Couldn’t have said it better myself! I’d say 34 in this draft is basically no chance of being better than Schultz and isn’t relevant to any work we want to do next year. The F1 is then most likely to land post 20 with all the FS and NGA kids. We’ll have 80 matches out of Schultz before that kid is probably even best 23 if they ever get there.

It would have been nice to have the extra currency next year for a potential trade, but we’ll find it if we chase anyone because for all we know AJ/ Macrae/ McInnes/ Noble are 2024 Ginnivan and Adams. We’re smack bang in the middle of premiership territory go for the ****ing jugular and cash in on that! You know what’s better than seeing 3 premierships in my lifetime? Seeing 2 or 3 in the space of 5 years.

 

[Fonzeno1]

I went fishing with a mate that barracks for north Melbourne yesterday. We were listening the trade 'action' while on the cast and he laughed at the Ratoglia (IDK how to spell it) deal. He said his club is at the bottom of the ladder and you have Geelong holding up the whole trade period to get extra picks in the 70's and 90's (which they probably won't use) when they were already getting overs at pick 25. He reckons they should sanction clubs that do that and don't end up using those later picks.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Picks become players. Our future first with guys like Ugle-Hagan and Logan McDonald out of contract next year could have been used to get us something of value

There’s lots of ways to get players and to win flags. If I recall we just won one.

 

[Seedsfan]

There’s lots of ways to get players and to win flags. If I recall we just won one.

We need to bring in a key forward it has been a position of need for a long time