List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Drought Break]

Whos knows whether we would of or not but one things for sure we lost and Naughton would of held us in much better stead moving forwards.

He would have been handy to mark up on Kennedy and Darling when they were tearing us a new one after quarter time. Having Goldsack as your main defender due to others injured was always going to be decisive

 

[SchuPie]

Not sure he was blaming Hine for anything, and agree that Stephenson was a good pick at the time, but sliding doors. We didn’t get a flag and Naughton will be one of the premier key forwards in the comp for the next decade…

I just struggle with the constant discussion of this draft, Apex
We took who we took and it’s done
My frustration doesn’t lie with the pick but in the coulda woulda shoulda - I’m more angry with the loss bc it was there for the taking and it was other moments in the game, other player decisions, not the impact of Stevo, that cost us a flag

 

[jatsad]

To be fair they've had some pretty average types as captain at the Hawks either side of Mitchell/Hodge so it wouldn't be a surprise.

While I wish Lynchy all the best obviously I don't think he's getting to anything near Witts' level as a footballer.

I think Lynch and Witts are on a par. Neither is a great pack mark or can be relied upon to kick goals. Just a big body that can get hit-outs.

 

[SchuPie]

He would have been handy to mark up on Kennedy and Darling when they were tearing us a new one after quarter time. Having Goldsack as your main defender due to others injured was always going to be decisive

I can see this point but think it’s moot bc without Stevie’s contribution throughout the year, we don’t make it - he changed the way we played. Discussion of Naughton in the GF is pointless if you don’t make it there

he was there for the Dogs in 2021 and they didn’t win
Wonder if they had picked someone other than Naughton they’d have won…?

anyway - moving on

 

[jatsad]

There were rumours on here and ebnw (prior to the draft) the club read Hine had been tossing up between Naughton and Stephenson pre draft at our pick. If only...

Shouldn't be a toss up if they are that close in their thinking. Always go the big bloke. Especially when it was a greater need and he was a lunatic Collingwood supporter.

 

[TradeDraft]

Shouldn't be a toss up if they are that close in their thinking. Always go the big bloke. Especially when it was a greater need and he was a lunatic Collingwood supporter.

Too Tall for Hine

Stepho had a Fantastic 1st Season but maybe he already Peaked though I doubt that

 

[mike123]

Love that the club is not committing to Dib. History tells us that at 174 cms you need to be elite in a number of other areas. His chances of becoming a successful afl footballer are slim. Harvey and Daniel are the only 2 really successful players under 175 I can think of this century. Others like Lewis Taylor look like they will make it but often fall away. Seems like a great kid and hope he goes alright but best for us to keep our options open and take best available.

Eddie Betts was 174cm. Melbourne had two premiership players under 175cm. Shai Bolton and Dion Prestia are on 175, Liam Baker below that.

If Dib’s ability was nothing special then fair enough but I hope height wasn’t the deciding factor.

 

[jmac70]

Eddie Betts was 174cm. Melbourne had two premiership players under 175cm. Shai Bolton and Dion Prestia are on 175, Liam Baker below that.

If Dib’s ability was nothing special then fair enough but I hope height wasn’t the deciding factor.

Don’t forget our man Blair!

 

[VinnieB]

What we pay him should have no bearing on how they structure their payments.

Could the 3 parties (or just the 2 clubs) not have come to an agreement on the structure? I would assume Treloar wouldn’t mind who pays his $950kpa. Alternatively, Treloar and the Dogs could have come to an agreement for them to simply top him up to $950k each year.

 

[mike123]

Don’t forget our man Blair!

People like to crap on him but he contributed to a premiership. Another man under 175cm who played a similar role in a three peat side was Paul Puopolo.

 

[No SPIN]

Changing their minds? You’re in no position to be declaring what our recruiters thoughts are, or have been in the past on a player. Just because this board rated him doesn’t mean Hine or GW was convinced he was worth a senior list spot. Your scenario is getting exceedingly implausible.

I’m more than happy for you to explain why my scenario is implausible.
I note in your post #7688 you were “surprised” , we passed on Dib.
Why so?

 

[jonbe54]

We'd never have made the 2018 GF without Stevo and so if we're dealing in "if onlys..."

"If only" in the last 2 minutes Treloar didn't kick it straight to McGovern
"If only" in the last 2 minutes Langdon didn't give the ball straight back to Rioli so he could kick inside 50 for the winning goal

I still think Stephenson was a great pick - added pace and excitement to our club - and he should have delivered a flag - don't blame Hine

Could have delivered a later flag but got a swollen head and became a serious flog - blame Stevo.

 

[Apex36]

I think Lynch and Witts are on a par. Neither is a great pack mark or can be relied upon to kick goals. Just a big body that can get hit-outs.

Witts was light years ahead of where Lynch is currently at when he was traded.

 

[Apex36]

I can see this point but think it’s moot bc without Stevie’s contribution throughout the year, we don’t make it - he changed the way we played. Discussion of Naughton in the GF is pointless if you don’t make it there

he was there for the Dogs in 2021 and they didn’t win
Wonder if they had picked someone other than Naughton they’d have won…?

anyway - moving on

As a counter argument, Naughton was 4th in the Dogs B&F in 2018, and would have filled a dire need in key defence for us. And I’m not sure it was Stephenson that changed we played, rather than him benefiting from our better ball movement.
As I said, sliding doors and what’s done is done, but Stephenson can’t be solely credited with bringing us to the GF imo.

 

[No SPIN]

No rookie coach 1 month in to the job has the clout to influence list management decisions to the degree you’re suggesting.

External noise would have suggested we were likely to nominate him. External noise though, is irrelevant and has no bearing on the decision making of those inside the club.

Also, sifting through pages and pages of posts to try to find a ‘gotcha’ post? Get a life spinny.

So why haven’t you explained why you were surprised? Or is your being misled by external noise the explanation?
I’m sorry you consider it a gotcha moment- I’m simply stating the facts.

 

[35Daicos]

Yeah saw that too. What’s the passageway from vfl to afl? They still need to nominate or we can upgrade? Guessing have to spend at least a year on vfl list before club can select for seniors?

There's no "direct link" between a club's VFL and AFL team/list for recruiting purposes, so we have no claim whatsoever on a VFL list player playing for our reserves team. We can recruit him, but so can anyone else!

 

[TakingThePies]

People who have been watching him for years suddenly changing their minds seems even more unlikely.
Isn’t it possible in reviewing the list with recruiters, McCrae no longer sees the need for Dib, or has another plan they all agree with?

Just because they didn't nominate him doesn't mean they won't take him.

 

[Apex36]

So why haven’t you explained why you were surprised? Or is your being misled by external noise the explanation?

I thought external noise was pretty self explanatory.

I’m sorry you consider it a gotcha moment- I’m simply stating the facts.

I don’t, because me being surprised about something has absolutely no relevance to the internal decisions at the club. I just find it sad you went searching for one.

 

[RobJD]

Very different scenarios, little correlation with what I’m saying.

Hmmm, is that your best response? Would love to know the logic behind the punchline

 

[partypie]

Don't know about that. If he can reproduce what he showed against Melbourne this year and be given the opportunity, at senior level to build on it, I think he could be pretty good.

He could be good, but Witts is elite. That's what I was getting at.

 

[Mollythedolly]

By this do you mean almost bad enough for him to only get one year in the system? What is with people jumping in here to defend against fair critiques. He is literally not on our list currently and is probably going to be the 43rd or 44th ranked player in 2022. It’s ok to say his season was poor.

I disagree his season was poor. Very happy for him to get another year.

 

[partypie]

I think Lynch and Witts are on a par. Neither is a great pack mark or can be relied upon to kick goals. Just a big body that can get hit-outs.

Umm, no they're not. It's not even close - Witts is an elite tap ruckman and he was pretty solid around the ground before he did his knee.

Not everyone is Max Gawn, who is the only ruckman in the comp who ticks all of those boxes you've mentioned.

 

[VinnieB]

Eddie Betts was 174cm. Melbourne had two premiership players under 175cm. Shai Bolton and Dion Prestia are on 175, Liam Baker below that.

If Dib’s ability was nothing special then fair enough but I hope height wasn’t the deciding factor.

Maybe he just isn’t the type of player we are looking for or the expected improvement didn’t come. Probably identified more pressing needs on the list and maybe expect to find that type available later in the draft. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a Hine ‘special’ come draft night picking up a kid who just played school footy or hasn’t come through the traditional pathways.

 

[No SPIN]

I thought external noise was pretty self explanatory.

I don’t, because me being surprised about something has absolutely no relevance to the internal decisions at the club. I just find it sad you went searching for one.

I wanted to make sure I wasn’t misquoting you, because you’re too easily irritated and prone to snark, when people choose to be loose with the facts.
But sadly even that effort, didn’t prevent the snark.

You need to relax, because making every discussion, a prickly, pointed and uncompromising debate, is a style that is grating.

 

[JuniorB]

People like to crap on him but he contributed to a premiership. Another man under 175cm who played a similar role in a three peat side was Paul Puopolo.

He seemed to fancy himself as a marking forward, judging by the number of times it was kicked to him. He was a good player for us - he would have been great if he was a foot taller! But seriously, he's a Collingwood premiership player - that counts for a lot.