List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Pleasedontfail11]

Two or more of Van Rooyen, Bazzo and Jack Williams should hopefully still be there in the 25-30 range, if we can line up a deal with a club around that point as a live trade on draft day.

Love the idea, however I don't see us having the stocks in terms of draft collateral to get into the early to mid 2nd round this year. I see us having a couple picks in the late 40's after the Daicos bid with future picks in the 40's to offer. I don't see us getting the deal done unless we can deal out our future 1st. I would only do that if we could get a future 2nd (need it to trade our future 1st) and a top 10 KPD.

 

[Jen2310]

Cox broke up with Geva Mentor a while ago now. Try to keep up on the socials mate...

It is possible that we're waiting on Cox because of the open list spot issue, but to be honest he would be a far riskier player for us to delist than someone like Keane, if we wanted to re-draft the player in question at the back end of the ND, PSD or as a rookie that is.

Yeah I think its more to do with the fact we are working out how many list spots to take into the draft.

 

[Apex36]

I agree that players are usually delisted for a reason; typically either not good enough or other issues like attitude.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if we actually did pick up Lonie as depth to Ginnivan and co. now that Thomas has retired.

I originally wanted Stengle because it was going to mean we could de-list/trade Thomas, before Thomas seemingly took matters into his own hands.

People froth over Ginnivan but the sample size is still too small for me. I'll be interested to see how he goes once he plays more games and teams start to work out his tricks.

Lonie isn't a world beater but we went after him and then he started that next season with some decent form. And let's not forget he has been a forward in a team with a terrible midfield.

Mate, Thomas took nothing in to his own hands. He wasn’t offered a new contract so he retired rather than seek a trade. It’s as simple as that.

 

[gouki88]

Not a terrible idea, seems okay. I think state league pearls will be our gift. Get them into AFL and performing at that top level. Hopefully, they're not Kyle Martins.

I hope we go that way too. Been well served by Mihocek and Noble recently.

 

[MyManLynch]

Yeah I think its more to do with the fact we are working out how many list spots to take into the draft.

I assume we have tabled an offer to Cox (1 year minimum chips), he is pondering, Pickering exploring if any better offers out there?
Deadline end of next week.

 

[jonbe54]

True but I doubt we get back into as early as the 1st Round

Would prefer to get a second first round in the 22 draft, get us a couple of shots at the projected good crop of young KPP's in that draft.

If you're going to go for good young KPP's go hard !

 

[HFF]

Cox milked top dollar for me being an ordinary footballer.
Let's be honest...he didnt earn half the money he was on in terms of output.

If he has greener pastures elsewhere, so be it.

 

[TradeDraft]

Be happy if we could somehow trade our future first to get a Gibcus or Andrews. But I think we will have to settle for a Dean type with the picks we have.

No Way in Hell we be Trading Back into the Top 10

 

[TradeDraft]

Mate, Thomas took nothing in to his own hands. He wasn’t offered a new contract so he retired rather than seek a trade. It’s as simple as that.

Maybe he looekd at getting Traded but got no Interest then Decided to Retire

 

[legendstatus]

Havent read most of the comments but next year (even this year somehow) we desperately need good tall KPD !!!!!

 

[TradeDraft]

Havent read most of the comments but next year (even this year somehow) we desperately need good tall KPD !!!!!

Still might get one this year as you can find them Late in the Draft and even the Rookie Draft

 

[magwood]

Having the draft over 2 nights will be a real benefit to us this year. After we know where Daicos goes, and matching the bid, we will have plenty of time to strategise and have discussions with other clubs. We will be able to go into the 2nd day with a clearer picture of how many players we want to take

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

No Way in Hell we be Trading Back into the Top 10

After the Daicos bid we could with our future 1st.

 

[partypie]

Love the idea, however I don't see us having the stocks in terms of draft collateral to get into the early to mid 2nd round this year. I see us having a couple picks in the late 40's after the Daicos bid with future picks in the 40's to offer. I don't see us getting the deal done unless we can deal out our future 1st. I would only do that if we could get a future 2nd (need it to trade our future 1st) and a top 10 KPD.

By that time we may have 6 x 3rd round picks in hand, so we may very well have something to work with.

 

[Prexm]

Cox milked top dollar for me being an ordinary footballer.
Let's be honest...he didnt earn half the money he was on in terms of output.

If he has greener pastures elsewhere, so be it.

Given that we have worked so hard to get to the 2400 points , got the 2 players we were after and now have 4 picks inside the 3rd round next year that they would have the list spots available. Surely Cox is delisted and maybe later put back on after the draft

Cox milked top dollar for me being an ordinary footballer.
Let's be honest...he didnt earn half the money he was on in terms of output.

If he has greener pastures elsewhere, so be it.

Where the list numbers are at now it does not seem logical why we would re-sign Cox before the draft. To do all the trades thus far u would think we want the 2400 points thus needing 7 vacant list spots.

 

[partypie]

Love the idea, however I don't see us having the stocks in terms of draft collateral to get into the early to mid 2nd round this year. I see us having a couple picks in the late 40's after the Daicos bid with future picks in the 40's to offer. I don't see us getting the deal done unless we can deal out our future 1st. I would only do that if we could get a future 2nd (need it to trade our future 1st) and a top 10 KPD.

First of all check this out as I sat down a few days back and tried to figure out where we'd be sitting after matching the Daicos bid:

List Mgmt. - COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

He’s not a cartoon character. No chuckles with GW, all business at this time of year :hearts:

www.bigfooty.com

There's no need to read the whole thing, just skim to the picks we will have for the different bid matching scenarios, if things go our way and NM goes with JHF with pick 1 and GWS bids on Darcy with pick 2, which their list manager has indicated is more likely than a Daicos bid at pick 2 due to list needs.

To cut a long story short if things go our way then we could very well have 6 x third round picks in hand after the Daicos bid match, which may be attractive to clubs seeking to match NGA bids coming in the 20's, or clubs looking to stock up on picks for next year.

I'd say that is a fairly solid hand for acquiring a future second round pick, potentially by trading out a couple of our remaining 3rd round picks to a team like St Kilda for their future 2nd as they desperately need points to match bids on two NGA prospects who may attract bids in the 20's. Brisbane is another possibility, as may Essendon as they both have F/S prospects coming through next year.

Once you manage to grab that future 2nd it's a relatively small step to trade that back in for a mid-second this year, given that we also have at least one attractive looking future 3rd (Hawks), maybe two if the Tigers are no good again next year.

It's all possible, we just need to be a bit bold / creative and be willing to leave no stone unturned if this is our goal (and it should be imo).

 

[Crazy Tails]

After the Daicos bid we could with our future 1st.

But only if we do a trade to get a future 2nd rounder first (don't have one at the moment). You need to have a pick in each round of a future draft to be able to trade out your future first.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

First of all check this out as I sat down a few days back and tried to figure out where we'd be sitting after matching the Daicos bid:

List Mgmt. - COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

He’s not a cartoon character. No chuckles with GW, all business at this time of year :hearts:

www.bigfooty.com

There's no need to read the whole thing, just skim to the picks we will have for the different bid matching scenarios, if things go our way and NM goes with JHF with pick 1 and GWS bids on Darcy with pick 2, which their list manager has indicated is more likely than a Daicos bid at pick 2 due to list needs.

To cut a long story short if things go our way then we could very well have 6 x third round picks in hand after the Daicos bid match, which may be attractive to clubs seeking to match NGA bids coming in the 20's, or clubs looking to stock up on picks for next year.

I'd say that is a fairly solid hand for acquiring a future second round pick, potentially by trading out a couple of our remaining 3rd round picks to a team like St Kilda for their future 2nd as they desperately need points to match bids on two NGA prospects who may attract bids in the 20's. Brisbane is another possibility, as may Essendon as they both have F/S prospects coming through next year.

Once you manage to grab that future 2nd it's a relatively small step to trade that back in for a mid-second this year, given that we also have at least one attractive looking future 3rd (Hawks), maybe two if the Tigers are no good again next year.

It's all possible, we just need to be a bit bold / creative and be willing to leave no stone unturned if this is our goal (and it should be imo).

Great work putting that post together. Outstanding work with the points by the way. Its a solid argument that you make and that is what big footy is about. However let me try to pick it apart a little (no offence intended)

Best case with Daicos going pick 4.

We are left with 42, 48, 51, 60, early future 3rd and late future 3rd to get the deal done.

Providing that someone is interested in any of those picks (I think it is doubtful for a future 2nd about pick 27. I think one of the hardest part of the trade would be turning the future 2nd into a current second because no one wants to trade out their current 2nd rounders except the Bulldogs.

Lets look at possibilities:
The Saints are willing to give up their future pick 27. It would take both our future 3rds and pick 42 imo (that is similar to our trade of pick 27 this year). We would then have to find a club like Richmond and trade out that pick and probably pick 48 for their pick 28 (will be 30 due to Daicos and Darcy moving the the draft back 2 places imo). However I don't see Richmond doing that deal they want those picks either for players or to trade up. I don't think they are that keen to get into next years draft. Most clubs with picks in the 20's want to take those picks to the draft.

Richmond have picks 26, 27, 28 and want to take all of those to the draft or even better trade up.
Hawthorn have 21 and 24 and want to get as many picks as possible this year and don't have many.
Dogs have 23 and I feel want trade it on draft night for 2 picks but there are much better offers then what we will be left with (Daicos bid must come first to even consider a trade to us)
Geelong's first is pick 22 I don't see them giving it up
Carlton's first is pick 25 same as Geelong
West Coast have 29 which will be pick 31. imo this pick is a little late.

In summary what you propose is possible however I don't see it as a very likely outcome. We would be giving away most of our draft hand this year and next year to get one pick in the 20's and even if we were willing to do it I don't see any clubs willing to trade out a mid 20's pick this year for a future pick. Even then will we get a good key position player with the pick. Very risky and low chance to even get it done.

 

[Harry O]

I don't see the need for a mature age kpd. They've kept Keane and Kelly - they're no longer newbies and are at an age where they should be viewed as depth, senior or delist.

Melbourne didn’t take that philosophy with Fritsch who Plapp had similar wraps on

 

[sr36]

Melbourne didn’t take that philosophy with Fritsch who Plapp had similar wraps on

Fritsch was a senior player by the time he was Kelly and Keanes age. I'm not saying they have to be best 22 by now. But if they aren't adequate depth this year, they should be in trouble.

 

[Jen2310]

Fritsch was a senior player by the time he was Kelly and Keanes age. I'm not saying they have to be best 22 by now. But if they aren't adequate depth this year, they should be in trouble.

For Kelly though, just needs some luck injury wise some confidence and continuilty. Hopefully 2022 a better year for him.

 

[sr36]

For Kelly though, just needs some luck injury wise some confidence and continuilty. Hopefully 2022 a better year for him.

Hope so. Not having a go at him or Keane, just suggesting that in their 4th years, they have to good enough to be considered depth.

 

[partypie]

Great work putting that post together. Outstanding work with the points by the way. Its a solid argument that you make and that is what big footy is about. However let me try to pick it apart a little (no offence intended)

Best case with Daicos going pick 4.

We are left with 42, 48, 51, 60, early future 3rd and late future 3rd to get the deal done.

We are actually left with 2021 picks 42, 48, 51, 60 and 2021 3rd round picks from Hawthorn, Richmond and Brisbane in that sceanrio.

Providing that someone is interested in any of those picks (I think it is doubtful for a future 2nd about pick 27. I think one of the hardest part of the trade would be turning the future 2nd into a current second because no one wants to trade out their current 2nd rounders except the Bulldogs.

This is where we'll need a little bit of luck (and creativity). There are clubs who need points for this year and clubs who might prefer to get out of this year's draft to stockpile picks for next year. If a club sees a bid coming in for an NGA prospect or, alternatively, expect a prospect they have on their draft board coming in around where they are expected (or later) and that comes after their next pick then they might be motivated to make a move.

Lets look at possibilities:
The Saints are willing to give up their future pick 27. It would take both our future 3rds and pick 42 imo (that is similar to our trade of pick 27 this year).

Not necessarily, given the Saints desperate need for draft points as they literally have nothing to match bids on their NGA kids with. The pick 27 trade favoured the seller (us) due to Richmond's strong desire to move up and any deal we might do with St Kilda could favour the seller (us) again.

We would then have to find a club like Richmond and trade out that pick and probably pick 48 for their pick 28 (will be 30 due to Daicos and Darcy moving the the draft back 2 places imo). However I don't see Richmond doing that deal they want those picks either for players or to trade up. I don't think they are that keen to get into next years draft. Most clubs with picks in the 20's want to take those picks to the draft.

Richmond have picks 26, 27, 28 and want to take all of those to the draft or even better trade up.
Hawthorn have 21 and 24 and want to get as many picks as possible this year and don't have many.
Dogs have 23 and I feel want trade it on draft night for 2 picks but there are much better offers then what we will be left with (Daicos bid must come first to even consider a trade to us)

This again is where we'd need a bit of luck, but I don't see Richmond holding onto picks 25-27 and instead expect them to try to move up as you have mentioned. The same may apply to Hawthorn, given their stated desire for more first round picks from the trade period. If that happens then the club that receives those second round picks (eg. Brisbane?) might be more interested in flipping an extra mid-second round pick out for 2022 draft points.

The Doggies pick 23 will be out of reach, unless they flip it out to another club for more points (which is possible).

Geelong's first is pick 22 I don't see them giving it up
Carlton's first is pick 25 same as Geelong
West Coast have 29 which will be pick 31. imo this pick is a little late.

I doubt Geelong would give pick 22 (24-25) up either so I'd cross that one off at my end too.

It's entirely possible though that Carlton might not be into this draft, given the moves they made during the FA / trade period, so grabbing their pick 25 (28-29?) is possibility at the start of day 2, if a decent looking future 2nd + 3rd is on offer (and they're already fully stocked for KPPs).

West Coast may be interested in giving up pick 29 (likely to be 32-33), so we'd again need a little luck have to have one of those KPP prospects slip to grab them there. The plus side of that is that the cost in trade would be less. I don't think West Coast is overly invested in this draft either, given they are firmly in "win now" mode.

In summary what you propose is possible however I don't see it as a very likely outcome. We would be giving away most of our draft hand this year and next year to get one pick in the 20's and even if we were willing to do it I don't see any clubs willing to trade out a mid 20's pick this year for a future pick. Even then will we get a good key position player with the pick. Very risky and low chance to even get it done.

Being able to pull off a manoeuvre like this will of course depend on how the remaining portion of the (pick-only) trade period and round 1 / the early part of round 2 of the draft plays out, but being armed with 6 x third round picks and having demand for points both this year and next year it is entirely possible if the stars align for us to strike at the right moment on day 2 of the draft.

I'm pretty sure that our list management team are working through all sorts of scenarios and what-ifs which, as time passes, may end up solidifying into approaches to and/or handshake agreements with specific clubs about potential pick swaps on draft day.

 

[Apex36]

For Kelly though, just needs some luck injury wise some confidence and continuilty. Hopefully 2022 a better year for him.

Feels like we’ve said that every year of Kelly’s career. It’s almost comical that he’s taken Reid’s number. Taken his spot in rehab beautifully.

 

[Pistol Night]

Feels like we’ve said that every year of Kelly’s career. It’s almost comical that he’s taken Reid’s number. Taken his spot in rehab beautifully.

I think we should retire the number 20