List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

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AFL 360 interview with Fly and Adam Simpson (who is a gracious bloke with a good sense of humour)

Robbo - we agree a general F*ckStick - was on this occasion enraptured by Jamie’s goal and a bit in love with Fly
I find it difficult to listen to Mark Robinson. He stammers and stutters and slurs his words and repeats himself. Has he got Parkinson's? Is he pissed? He seems to generate alot of noise from the general region of his face but not much of that noise is intelligible, let alone insightful commentary.. is it just me?
 
I find it difficult to listen to Mark Robinson. He stammers and stutters and slurs his words and repeats himself. Has he got Parkinson's? Is he pissed? He seems to generate alot of noise from the general region of his face but not much of that noise is intelligible, let alone insightful commentary.. is it just me?
He is perpetually shitfaced. You are not alone
 

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I think a centre clearance has to clear the centre square before it's regarded as a clearance

It doesn't look like we are keeping JDG unless he stays for way unders. What would you do if you were 27 next year and were offered much more money to leave? This isn't Wonderland I'm afraid. As for Grundy, I doubt he goes anywhere
Champion Data have indicated that a clearance/ centre clearance is credited to the player who has 1st effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger that clears the stoppage/ centre area

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Given they want Taranto, I can't see keeping de goey and getting him. Unless we trade out our 1st rounder.
I agree. For mine, however, I'd love to see Taranto (& Dunkley) in B&W.

No Hill or McStay for me. Just go for the cream!

If we have to lose JDG & trade away our First Round Pick (or even better, our posse of third round picks, plus the Brown Bros as steak knives), so be it!

I genuinely believe that we already have the forward line potential (Beau, Ginny, AJ, Cameron/Cox, Brodie, Jamie, Ollie, Reef & Kreuger) and the backline capability within our current stocks (particularly if Dean lives up to his billing as a solid Roughie replacement) to mix it with the best. It's the midfield we need to reinforce at the moment. Carmichael is a great prospect for 2023, particularly with a puppy-fat-shedding preseason in him and Adams is a stalwart but, other then them (& our premium ruck stocks) we seem to be spread pretty thin in the centre clearance stakes.
 
Champion Data have indicated that a clearance/ centre clearance is credited to the player who has 1st effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger that clears the stoppage/ centre area

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Interesting, that just devalued Grundy's perceived centre clearance dominance.
 
I find it difficult to listen to Mark Robinson. He stammers and stutters and slurs his words and repeats himself. Has he got Parkinson's? Is he pissed? He seems to generate alot of noise from the general region of his face but not much of that noise is intelligible, let alone insightful commentary.. is it just me?
Someone said on here that he might have a brain injury but I feel that’s as unlikely as Oscar Pistorius having a foot injury.
 
Not sure that it does. Could you please amplify your reasons why you think so, as I've probably missed something there? Thanks
Champion Data have indicated that a clearance/ centre clearance is credited to the player who has 1st effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger that clears the stoppage/ centre area

Read it a few times
 
Champion Data have indicated that a clearance/ centre clearance is credited to the player who has 1st effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger that clears the stoppage/ centre area

Read it a few times
Unless this constitutes a change in interpretation, though, Grundy's record remains exactly as it was. He's still an absolute clearance beast: he's the best ruck in the competition below his knees and for his follow-up clearances, isn't he? I sometimes wonder whether we've forgotten just how good he is lately. Surely our supporter base are not so fickle that, just because he hasn't played for three months, we're starting to believe the side would be better without him?
 

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I find it difficult to listen to Mark Robinson. He stammers and stutters and slurs his words and repeats himself. Has he got Parkinson's? Is he pissed? He seems to generate alot of noise from the general region of his face but not much of that noise is intelligible, let alone insightful commentary.. is it just me?

I think it's his way of trying to come across as earnest/create some drama but yeah.............it just makes him appear more over .05 than otherwise might be the case.
 
Unless this constitutes a change in interpretation, though, Grundy's record remains exactly as it was. He's still an absolute clearance beast: he's the best ruck in the competition below his knees and for his follow-up clearances, isn't he? I sometimes wonder whether we've forgotten just how good he is lately. Surely our supporter base are not so fickle that, just because he hasn't played for three months, we're starting to believe the side would be better without him?
I don't think we are better off without him. i don't think he's that good below his knees, did you see draper yesterday? His follow up clearance work hasn't been the same since 2019. What he does still do well is grub a kick forward, now, it doesn't matter if the opposition get the ball after he scrubs it because it gives us meterage. It also helps stop teams from walking it out of the centre. you have to be blind to see that he doesn't do the things he did in 18/19 when he was following up and kicking it well into our forward 50 but he is still a very important piece for the remainder of the year
 
I though McRae was very clear cut about wanting to retain Grundy next year
Was a bit less definitive with JDG
That was my take as well
 
Interesting stats re Premiers ( 2nd Column) v runners up in Clearance ranking:
2017 - Crow 2 - Rich 13
2018 - Pies 4 - WC 12
2019- Giants 2 - Rich 15
2020- cats 2 - Rich 15
2021- WB 1 - Melb 5

Previously
2016 - Swans 3 - WB 6
2015 - WC 6 - Hawks 5
2014 -Swans 9- Hawks 1
2013 - Freo 12 - Hawks 6
2012 - Hawks 1 - Swans 3rd

Recent history suggests that high clearance rank is not critical to winning flags like it was in the past.
The inferior clearance teams have won all of the last 6 flags, and 7 of the last 10.
 
Merret and Shiel may not be monsters in height but both are quick and strong bodied.
And get monstered v teams with the huge bodies. It’s one thing to be banging up against Adams, Pendles and Crisp all day, but a whole different ball game v Bont/ Dunkley/ Macrae or Petracca/ Oliver/ Viney or Cripps/ Hewett/ Kennedy etc. I think there’s obviously roles for smaller agile mids (we have plenty), but you need the balance of bigger bodies which we’ve lacked since JDG went out.
 
I did think that statement rung a bit weird. I went through our clearance numbers a couple of weeks ago with Grundy v without. It was a minor negative differential with him, as you mention, vs a very considerable negative differential without. Not sure where Fly came up with that.

Since Grundy went down, our centre clearance differential is -43. We've won centre clearances three times (GWS, Richmond and Hawthorn), and been even with Freo - that indicates to me that when we do lose the centre clearance count, we get absolutely smashed.
I covered off the drop in clearance differential as well. Grundy rucked for 84% of the first 6 rounds meaning he often came up against the 2nd ruck which was Hayes, Himmleberg, Dixon, Ratugolea and Baldwin whereas Cox/ Cameron haven’t had that luxury with their stretch of matches coinciding with matchups against Gawn/ Jackson, Witts x 2, Darcy and Goldstein.

On Sunday it was a perfect storm of Cameron having a mare and Essendon’s fleet of smalls being on. Grundy may have impacted this one, but the stats don’t support him being a better centre clearance ruckman for the team other than his ability to win his own which can often be a detriment to the team when he hacks it forward blindly…
 
I think we missed Grundy,s aggression against draper and previously thought maybe we could trade him but not so much now,I am against bring in Mcstay i that does not inspire me, whether JDG stay,s or goes I am not sure but if he goes we need 2 big bodied mids to come on from Draper,Carmichael or Macinnes, as people have said Adams though tough is doing it all alone in there.

Daicos i think needs 2 or3 pre seasons before his is big enough for the engine room and I would prefer those stills outside anyway, I think like some here we need a KPD and a big bodied mid and then we would be complete and Mcstay good player though will not fill either position for us.
 
I covered off the drop in clearance differential as well. Grundy rucked for 84% of the first 6 rounds meaning he often came up against the 2nd ruck which was Hayes, Himmleberg, Dixon, Ratugolea and Baldwin whereas Cox/ Cameron haven’t had that luxury with their stretch of matches coinciding with matchups against Gawn/ Jackson, Witts x 2, Darcy and Goldstein.

On Sunday it was a perfect storm of Cameron having a mare and Essendon’s fleet of smalls being on. Grundy may have impacted this one, but the stats don’t support him being a better centre clearance ruckman for the team other than his ability to win his own which can often be a detriment to the team when he hacks it forward blindly…
Bogus use of statistics to justify an unjust anti-Grundy bias, I'd say. If Grundy rucked 84% of game time in his matches, he'd primarily be rucking against the oppositions' first ruck, wouldn't he?. By contrast, Cameron & Cox, by splitting the ruck load, would individually have been matched against the first ruck much less often... Inverts your argument, doesn't it?
 
And get monstered v teams with the huge bodies. It’s one thing to be banging up against Adams, Pendles and Crisp all day, but a whole different ball game v Bont/ Dunkley/ Macrae or Petracca/ Oliver/ Viney or Cripps/ Hewett/ Kennedy etc. I think there’s obviously roles for smaller agile mids (we have plenty), but you need the balance of bigger bodies which we’ve lacked since JDG went out.

Yeah I agree with your point, that's why they use Stringer in there aswell who is the point of difference, the move of Merret and Stringer in Q2 coincided with there dominating periods. Along with obvs Draper taking our 2 guys to town.

Stringer happens to be a downhill skier though so is hot and cold.
 
I think we missed Grundy,s aggression against draper and previously thought maybe we could trade him but not so much now,I am against bring in Mcstay i that does not inspire me, whether JDG stay,s or goes I am not sure but if he goes we need 2 big bodied mids to come on from Draper,Carmichael or Macinnes, as people have said Adams though tough is doing it all alone in there.

Daicos i think needs 2 or3 pre seasons before his is big enough for the engine room and I would prefer those stills outside anyway, I think like some here we need a KPD and a big bodied mid and then we would be complete and Mcstay good player though will not fill either position for us.
I’m hoping we’re targeting McStay to play the lockdown back role for us.

Similar to how we plucked Roughead from playing ruck/forward at the dogs and made an excellent lockdown KPD out of him.

I think he has all the attributes to excel in the role.
 
Interesting stats re Premiers ( 2nd Column) v runners up in Clearance ranking:
2017 - Crow 2 - Rich 13
2018 - Pies 4 - WC 12
2019- Giants 2 - Rich 15
2020- cats 2 - Rich 15
2021- WB 1 - Melb 5

Previously
2016 - Swans 3 - WB 6
2015 - WC 6 - Hawks 5
2014 -Swans 9- Hawks 1
2013 - Freo 12 - Hawks 6
2012 - Hawks 1 - Swans 3rd

Recent history suggests that high clearance rank is not critical to winning flags like it was in the past.
The inferior clearance teams have won all of the last 6 flags, and 7 of the last 10.
Really good insights there. Thanks.

But it still doesn't counteract the blisteringly obvious argument that, right now and as illustrated for three quarters against the Bombers, we are being slaughtered in the centre of the ground. It's our glaring weakness at the moment and needs to be fixed...urgently. If we end up being ranked 18th for clearance differential this season, flag contention won't even be the slightest possibility for us.
 
Really good insights there. Thanks.

But it still doesn't counteract the blisteringly obvious argument that, right now and as illustrated for three quarters against the Bombers, we are being slaughtered in the centre of the ground. It's our glaring weakness at the moment and needs to be fixed...urgently. If we end up being ranked 18th for clearance differential this season, flag contention won't even be the slightest possibility for us.
Are we ranked last? I can’t find the clearance differential rankings anywhere…
 
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