List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Chrispiesssss]

I think Matt Crocuh would be great for our clearance output. However, he’s a bit one dimensional. Where else can he play?

Macrae, Reef & Carmichael probably wouldn’t be too happy missing out on potential midfield minutes too.

 

[Dynamics]

What's going on there? Seems like there's more to the story that we don't know about.

Time for a trip to the Crows board to see what they think.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

29

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

is probably one of the worst defensively minded players in the league. Cannot imagine that he would appeal to McRae.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Matrix10]

I'm a bit lairy about him. But then I think of guys like Keays, Brodie, Kennedy who were written off so maybe I need to be open-minded. One red flag for me though is he didn't want to leave SA before his last contract so I wonder if Melbourne is an environment he'll be happy in.

Jarryd Lyon also , Adelaide turfed him to the curb , the Bears got him for a packet of bbq shapes , midfield Bull , would have fitted nicely and on the cheap .

 

[Silky23]

Pretty simple for Crouch - lack of metres gained, handball happy midfielder who is hardly damaging with his possession and his flaws stick out like a sore thumb in a poor Adelaide side. Needs to improve his defensive running patterns.

However, I’d be all over him on a move to Collingwood. He is quality as a first touch midfielder, would come at zero cost apart from a list spot and he immediately makes us better at clearances and winning contested possessions. Considering we have a lack of his type of nous and play style he could work, much like Will Brodie

17

Will Brodie

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

8.2

3star

HB

10.8

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

10.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

2star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

2.8

5star

has fit in so seamlessly at Fremantle.

I watched him towards the end of last year and there was an article from memory that spoke about Crouch’s improvement as a ball winner, transition runner and pressure mid and all his stats were through the roof - I suppose it could be all between the ears for him and the trust he has in his body, and I think a change of scenery and Fly in his ear about his role and he could be a gun for us.

 

[lenny20]

Would be happy for us to grab him on the cheap. At worst he’s an upgrade on Callum Brown, at best he rejuvenates his career in a new environment and improves us in clearances.

A few years ago, Crouch was looking like the second coming of Sam Mitchell.

I’m not sure why he’s fallen apart so spectacularly, but given he fills a desperate need for us, and given our new coaching staff’s fantastic record with player development this year, I’d be more than happy to take the punt.

Especially now that the Crows will literally give him away.

 

[Dynamics]

No interest as a FA last year due to injury concerns. They signed him up for 2 years but it looks like they've drawn a line through him and have told him he's welcome to look elsewhere. Seems like they're clearing the decks and don't see him as part of their future. Telling him that now seems like a bloody weird choice.

 

[Silky23]

A few years ago, Crouch was looking like the second coming of Sam Mitchell.

I’m not sure why he’s fallen apart so spectacularly, but given he fills a desperate need for us, and given our new coaching staff’s fantastic record with player development this year, I’d be more than happy to take the punt.

Especially now that the Crows will literally give him away.

Crows turned to an absolute pile of steaming dog shit and his game didn’t progress as the team worsened. Crouch is a good midfielder in a team who can cover his flaws and he has outside run and carriers, however a team with Laird, Keays, Berry, Schoenberg, Sloane etc means he’s probably on the outer with Adelaide looking for youth and guys who can do it better than him.

 

[MyManLynch]

Basically, the Club is placing him on the trade table.
No long term future at the Club.
His choice…play SANFL for 2023 or depart in October this year.
Sounds like another St Kilda recruiting coup in the making.

 

[PieLebo87]

When Robbo asked would one or both be at Collingwood next year Fly said that was Wright's and the List Managers domain. Robbo asked Fly what power he had if he wanted them, he replied jokingly he would have to ask Wrighty and the subject was changed

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Fly’s answer about Grundy told me there’s a low chance he’ll be at Collingwood next year. Felt he has more love for JDG though.

 

[swoop42]

While I can understand the rationale of why so many people believe we must take a KPP with our 1st round selection, for mine the landscape has changed enough since the start of our season that we might be better served rethinking that position.

The most critical aspect that has changed is we'll no longer likely be making a selection within the top 10 which would have been unthinkable to most before the season began. While a decent KP prospect could still be on offer later in the first round if that player is the 4th or 5th best KP prospect on our draft board should we take him if another non KP prospect is rated much higher overall by us?

Another area to consider is just how strong the pool of KP prospects really are this year.

All the talk was this years draft included a bumper crop of KPP but looking at the latest round of power rankings by Chris Doerre aka Knightmare sees only 2 such players within his top 10 (@9,10) and another 2/3 within his top 20.

AFL Draft Power Rankings: Phillipou strengthens claim for No. 1 pick

ESPN.com.au's draft expert Chris Doerre has revealed his AFL Draft Power Rankings for the month of July with Mattaes Phillipou once again sitting on top of the pile.

www.espn.com.au

Another question to ponder is whether with our rapid rise this season we'd be better off retaining both De Goey and Grundy and using this seasons 1st round selection as part of any trade currency required for an established player like Taranto. This is of course assuming we can afford Taranto should both players above be retained. I would imagine we would need to forget about McStay under this scenario and most would be happy with that outcome at present.

Taranto is two years younger than Jordan, is more a pure midfield option and doesn't carry the same off field baggage. On the flip side he doesn't have the same capacity as Jordan to be moved forward and influence a game off his own boot either. Personally I see losing De Goey and gaining Taranto as a net zero gain and would prefer they come together in our midfield. Comparing their 2022 seasons and De Goey is actually ahead when it comes to our hot topic of the moment, clearances.

Jordan De Goey and Tim Taranto AFL Stats Comparison

Jordan De Goey and Tim Taranto AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

As for Grundy I feel we should remember he's the only dual AA on our list outside of Pendlebury so we shouldn't be to flippant when discussing his future. At his best players of his talent aren't so easy to come by.

Yes we all hope he can get back to his form of 2018/19 and yes if he can't we wish he was on less money but I'm still drawn to the fact he's had barely any opportunity to play under our new coach and system as yet. He still remains the best pure ruck option on our list.

For mine we should only entertain trading Grundy if the currency gained went towards landing a really big KP fish yet unknown and not for the arrival of a Taranto and McStay combination.

 

[davywap]

McStay is shit

 

[Mark W]

Macrae, Reef & Carmichael probably wouldn’t be too happy missing out on potential midfield minutes too.

I find the above argument strange. Anyone would think depth, and making kids compete fiercely to get a game was a good thing! as for Matt Crouch, I’m not a fan. A slow accumulator of low impact possessions. Would much prefer one of the 3 GWS inside mids available: Taranto, Hopper or Bruhn.

 

[Mark W]

McStay is s**t

He is certainly no world beater, but let me draw an analogy at the Bullies. Josh Bruce has been quite ordinary in his comeback. However his comeback has coincided with a big improvement in JUH. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Without Bruce JUH is 2nd banana to Naughton, he isn’t ready for that role yet. With Bruce in the team to play on the gorillas, JUH is freed up to play 3rd tall.

I’m not crazy about the reported salary or length of contract, but I think having a big solid workhorse like McStay will really benefit Checkers/Ash/Freddie/Ollie…

 

[davywap]

He is certainly no world beater, but let me draw an analogy at the Bullies. Josh Bruce has been quite ordinary in his comeback. However his comeback has coincided with a big improvement in JUH. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Without Bruce JUH is 2nd banana to Naughton, he isn’t ready for that role yet. With Bruce in the team to play on the gorillas, JUH is freed up to play 3rd tall.

I’m not crazy about the reported salary or length of contract, but I think having a big solid workhorse like McStay will really benefit Checkers/Ash/Freddie/Ollie…

People seem to be forgetting Freddy. Not one to hang our hopes on but just as valuable as McStay.

 

[3rdMan]

No to Crouch. I know most aren't happy with the McStay rumours. If it's true though, adding yet another top up player, and not a very good one, in Crouch is a very bad move.

Despite our record we can't feel like we've made it and look for top ups. We need to be going forward with youth. I'd much rather look to Macrae than Crouch for next season. Not against adding a mid from outside the club, but not not a 27/28 year old.

 

[magpies42]

Would be happy for us to grab him on the cheap. At worst he’s an upgrade on Callum Brown, at best he rejuvenates his career in a new environment and improves us in clearances.

An expensive upgrade…he accumulates the ball and does nothing with it. We need to think about cap space, he ain’t going to come cheap.

 

[magpies42]

I think Matt Crocuh would be great for our clearance output. However, he’s a bit one dimensional. Where else can he play?

Macrae, Reef & Carmichael probably wouldn’t be too happy missing out on potential midfield minutes too.

He could also play in the VFL, let’s not talk about this…we don’t want to tempt fate.

 

[Mark W]

People seem to be forgetting Freddy. Not one to hang our hopes on but just as valuable as McStay.

If we can get him on the park, I agree

 

[Mark W]

An expensive upgrade…he accumulates the ball and does nothing with it. We need to think about cap space, he ain’t going to come cheap.

if ya being released from a bottom 4 team, ya going to be cheap…

 

[magpies42]

if ya being released from a bottom 4 team, ya going to be cheap…

It’s all relative….he’d be asking for more than 500k. Cal Brown would be on close to minimum wage. The impact on the team and list structure is negative in that scenario. Doesn’t fit our profile either…with age and the fact he’s slow and won’t tackle.

 

[adammania9]

We need a hail mary trade at full back. I’d pass one of our third round selections to Adelaide for Fischer McAsey

3

Fischer Mcasey

Age

23

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.8

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

3star

MG

102.3

2star

D

6.8

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

2star

MG

102.3

2star

D

7.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

MG

114.8

2star

, pick 6 from 2019 who might click in a new system. He’s been pretty atrocious in his 3 seasons, but he’s young enough to be rescued

 

[Scodog10]

Bogus use of statistics to justify an unjust anti-Grundy bias, I'd say. If Grundy rucked 84% of game time in his matches, he'd primarily be rucking against the oppositions' first ruck, wouldn't he?. By contrast, Cameron & Cox, by splitting the ruck load, would individually have been matched against the first ruck much less often... Inverts your argument, doesn't it?

To be very clear this is a conversation refuting McRae’s comments we were a top 4 centre clearance team with Grundy as the number 1 not a Cameron/ Cox v Grundy discussion. I personally think we’re marginally better off with Grundy in the centre, but I prefer the around the ground aerial ability of the other two.

To address your post yeah obviously they’re rucking a lot v the no 1, but the overlap is important because most ruckman (if not all) don’t ruck for as long as Grundy. When making a comparison with guys that ruck in the mid 60’s Grundy might end up spending 15% of a match with a favourable matchup (earlier this year we tried to exploit that) whereas the better of the Cameron/ Cox pair could go a whole match without coming up against the number 2 ruck with how their responsibilities are split. Me I’d personally want Cox v the number 2 permanently with the current setup. In terms of the inverse argument no that means there’s less opportunity for them to win the total clearances Grundy does.

Hand on heart I don’t remember Cox ever winning a Grundy type clearance and considering Grundy was winning 13% when in the team that makes up a big majority in the drop in clearance numbers. I don’t think Cameron wins as many as Grundy, but across a 6 week block of both rucking 84% with the same quality of opponent Grundy faced he’d get 3-4 v Grundy’s 4-5, IMO. The added benefit is that with more time as the number 1 Cameron builds the connection with his ground level players that Grundy’s had 8 years to work on.

Considering the thread of the discussion how about you present something to support McRae’s view if you feel so strongly? Out of curiosity in Grundy’s ten years have you ever felt we’ve been a good clearance team let alone top 4 centre clearance?

 

[Scodog10]

Is his season this year the most empty stats season in memory? I know it is for me.

27 touches a game, yet he cannot keep his spot in the side and is being pushed out of the club. Astonishing.

It’s a weird one. He does nothing for me as an AFL footballer so no interest whatsoever, but his numbers are solid:

27 ppg
2.5 I50’s
5.3 SI
9 metres gained per possession

If Adelaide had a bunch of high end young midfield talent they needed to push through like North with LDU, Thomas, Phillips and JHF I’d say yeah fair enough he’s getting dropped, but outside of Berry I don’t think they have much through there (even then he’s Crisp 2013 rough around the edges).

He’s not for us because it’s a backwards step with Carmichael, Bianco and Macrae right on the fringes of the best 22, but Richmond with Edwards and Cotchin right at the end or Hawthorn as a cheap side grade for Mitchell.

 

[Anzacday]

He is a Victorian.

Thanks Bill.