List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[Fat Jesus]

well done fat one.... derek was the one that found out that dan was living in brisbane...

Well, he helped organise the trade to happen. Am I wrong?

 

[Apex36]

I don't think Stephenson's body was ever going to allow him to be the player we wanted him to become.

Once teams put time into him physically and stopped the out the back goals his trick was found out.

I disagree. Imo it’s a work ethic thing with him, he proved in his first 1.5 years with us that he could be an exceptionally damaging small/medium forward at a minimum. It wasn’t until he got suspended and went off the rails in terms of training (and interacting with team mates) that his game began to suffer.
I remember Bucks being so complimentary of him in year 1 about how hard he worked and telling him early that if he kept working hard (after a few quiet opening games) that results would follow and they did. It was a stark contrast to the reports of him shirking weights etc in the gym by the time he left us.
His body is a result of low training standards, not this ectomorph stuff people keep saying about him imo. Murphy came in to the system with a similar skinny build, the difference was he committed himself to building his frame and becoming the best version of himself he could. Stephenson committed himself to becoming a borderline star and then figured he could coast on talent alone after he made it.

 

[Apex36]

It’s really great watching Logan Morris develop.
Really great.
Really.

Once again I think this was one of his dumb rigid best available on his list rules. Morris was clearly on our radar and would likely have been rated near our first pick.
It’s too early to write off Harry, because at a minimum he has the right work ethic, but I agree it’s a bitter pill to swallow watching a player like Morris playing finals for a strong team like Brisbane in his first year when he was exactly the kind of marking forward we could have used this year in the constant absence of both Mihocek and McStay.

 

[Apex36]

Well, he helped organise the trade to happen. Am I wrong?

Probably. Hine is mostly in charge of junior talent id, pro talent scouting and trades were GW’s domain as the list manager.

 

[loki04]

I disagree. Imo it’s a work ethic thing with him, he proved in his first 1.5 years with us that he could be an exceptionally damaging small/medium forward at a minimum. It wasn’t until he got suspended and went off the rails in terms of training (and interacting with team mates) that his game began to suffer.
I remember Bucks being so complimentary of him in year 1 about how hard he worked and telling him early that if he kept working hard (after a few quiet opening games) that results would follow and they did. It was a stark contrast to the reports of him shirking weights etc in the gym by the time he left us.
His body is a result of low training standards, not this ectomorph stuff people keep saying about him imo. Murphy came in to the system with a similar skinny build, the difference was he committed himself to building his frame and becoming the best version of himself he could. Stephenson committed himself to becoming a borderline star and then figured he could coast on talent alone after he made it.

Imo it was Buckley clearing space out the back aka a pagons paddock and teams were not putting Stephenson under physical pressure. He used his pace often to get back on to it.

When the physicality rose and they held a line back there he went missing.

His body has barely improved which at draft time was a known concern due to his heart issues.

Murphy had a much wider frame to put the beef on and no heart condition Impeding muscle development.

 

[Markfs]

i think we all share derek's love of watching the runt of the litter play AFL...

 

[Markfs]

logan morris was born 5th oct....a couple of months later and we might have had him

 

[Pendles!]

It wasn't the best. Hawthorn handle ginni much different to us. They embrace ginni's idiosyncrasies and had no problem with him being at the pub the night before. Not sure I like the "my way or the highway " mantra we have atm. We can't be giving away players for nothing because they are a little bit different

It’s a bit different when the playing group also think he’s a dickhead and are happy for him to leave.

 

[Bramax]

It wasn't the best. Hawthorn handle ginni much different to us. They embrace ginni's idiosyncrasies and had no problem with him being at the pub the night before. Not sure I like the "my way or the highway " mantra we have atm. We can't be giving away players for nothing because they are a little bit different

Let’s see how this develops over time. Ginnivan will be prone to controversy his entire career.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

The irony is, this was always the knock on bucks, but actually this far into mcraes tenure he has demonstrated far less patience for character and off field shenanigans than bucks did.

I'd much prefer the results Fly has got than those of Bucks.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Let’s see how this develops over time. Ginnivan will be prone to controversy his entire career.

Agree. They'll tire of it when it's all about Ginni.

 

[VinnieB]

It wasn't the best. Hawthorn handle ginni much different to us. They embrace ginni's idiosyncrasies and had no problem with him being at the pub the night before. Not sure I like the "my way or the highway " mantra we have atm. We can't be giving away players for nothing because they are a little bit different

I’m not so sure they would have been happy with him being at the club the night before. But we wouldn’t know about it, because Mitchell said he ‘wasn’t aware’ and closed the questioning down.

One thing though the Hawks have done is basically given Ginnivan more freedom playing around the ground. For us, he was just a goalkicker. For the Hawks, he doesn’t need to kick a couple of goals a game to be valuable. He is getting much more of the ball.

Also, he looks a lot fitter.

 

[Markfs]

hawthorn stories don't get the manic attention that pie stories do....i dont think there are a 100,000 hawk supporters wetting their pants on ginnivan staying out late at night

 

[TakingThePies]

It wasn't the best. Hawthorn handle ginni much different to us. They embrace ginni's idiosyncrasies and had no problem with him being at the pub the night before. Not sure I like the "my way or the highway " mantra we have atm. We can't be giving away players for nothing because they are a little bit different

Just forgetting all the other times he was a tool? Like when he was done doing cocaine on a pre season trip in Torquay?

He was an immature tool and deserved to be thrown out.

The races incident wasn't the sole reason they got rid of him, it was the accumulation of the issues.

Fly is as good as any coach around at creating relationships and embracing differences, it's why most players have shined.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Just forgetting all the other times he was a tool? Like when he was done doing cocaine on a pre season trip in Torquay?

He was an immature tool and deserved to be thrown out.

The races incident wasn't the sole reason they got rid of him, it was the accumulation of the issues.

Fly is as good as any coach around at creating relationships and embracing differences, it's why most players have shined.

And we probably only know half of what Ginni did to irk the coach & playing group.

 

[jmac70]

And we probably only know half of what Ginni did to irk the coach & playing group.

I’ve heard he used to fart a lot during team meetings.

One of those guys who seems to be able to do one at will.

 

[Bramax]

Agree. They'll tire of it when it's all about Ginni.

Give him an inch and he’ll take a yard too.

 

[TakingThePies]

And we probably only know half of what Ginni did to irk the coach & playing group.

If Graham Wright, the leadership group and Fly all agreed about the decision... I'm not arguing.

 

[Run n Spread]

It wasn't the best. Hawthorn handle ginni much different to us. They embrace ginni's idiosyncrasies and had no problem with him being at the pub the night before. Not sure I like the "my way or the highway " mantra we have atm. We can't be giving away players for nothing because they are a little bit different

Had it under Malthouse and Bucks as well.
Like you don't think generally that mantra works anymore. Especially with Tassie coming in and more opportunities.
Like in any workforce with full employment. People will search for best fit.
Maybe Ginni didn't fit. Which happens.
Need to make the place attractive for those who are. But also need to be aware where the game is heading and the players you need to build the right trend.
Ginnis types are the norm now not exception. Just like the smash 20 beers go out and play were the 80s types.

 

[Rorzza]

Regarding Decka, a lot of posters seem to think that all you need to do is select talent straight out of the draft to succeed and that's it, posters seem to ignore player development and a number of other factors such as coaching. In hindsight I'm guessing that under Buckley except for 2018, CFC went backwards on the ladder to the previous year. IMO, that is not good coaching over a 10 year period.

In recent times like other successful teams CFC has not bottomed out too often which means top end talent is not in reach. Even De Goey/Moore were 4 and 5 in their draft.

I have not done the sums but I would guess CFC would be top eight the past decade in win/loss ratio through out the regular season and number 1 over history of the game.

Unfortunately, CFC's win/loss ratio significantly drops off in relation to finals over the history of the game.

 

[manicpie]

And we probably only know half of what Ginni did to irk the coach & playing group.

If he was that bad he wouldn't be having the season he's had and would be hated by the players. He seems to be well and truly loved at hawthorn.

 

[manicpie]

Had it under Malthouse and Bucks as well.
Like you don't think generally that mantra works anymore. Especially with Tassie coming in and more opportunities.
Like in any workforce with full employment. People will search for best fit.
Maybe Ginni didn't fit. Which happens.
Need to make the place attractive for those who are. But also need to be aware where the game is heading and the players you need to build the right trend.
Ginnis types are the norm now not exception. Just like the smash 20 beers go out and play were the 80s types.

I played footy with blokes who played under the influence of weed in the 80's and ithey still played well

 

[Piewithsauce13]

Agree. They'll tire of it when it's all about Ginni.

Or when/ if they start losing. It’s all rosy now.

 

[Jen2310]

I played footy with blokes who played under the influence of weed in the 80's and ithey still played well

My great uncle used to have 6 beers before the game, and then used to get the trainers to bring some to him at HT. Used to put his footy gear under his casual clothes, as he would be coming straight from the pub to the game.

 

[manicpie]

I’m not so sure they would have been happy with him being at the club the night before. But we wouldn’t know about it, because Mitchell said he ‘wasn’t aware’ and closed the questioning down.

One thing though the Hawks have done is basically given Ginnivan more freedom playing around the ground. For us, he was just a goalkicker. For the Hawks, he doesn’t need to kick a couple of goals a game to be valuable. He is getting much more of the ball.

Also, he looks a lot fitter.

They had no issue with him being at the pub. We don't know if he was blind drunk or just had a couple of social drinks with his mates. ginni is a rebel, he's not a mass murderer or a pure arseh*le. he must be traini9ng the house the down to be playing as good as he has this year