Collingwood VFL team review

[The 10th Letter]

Hope you'll forgive the slight necromancy, but I thought this thread was the most suitable to post in without having to start a new thread .

A little overdue, but I've knocked out a bit of a review for those players who featured predominantly amongst our VFL unit this year. You can find the review here for those interested.

 

[Knightmare]

Hope you'll forgive the slight necromancy, but I thought this thread was the most suitable to post in without having to start a new thread .

A little overdue, but I've knocked out a bit of a review for those players who featured predominantly amongst our VFL unit this year. You can find the review here for those interested.

Really impressive work as always 10th Letter. Appreciate the effort and detail you go into.

The fact Wood is contracted increases the urgency to trade him in my mind. A St Kilda could do with the depth and a 5th round selection is really quite fine.
In the scenairo he stays on next season what do you think of Wood the key defender? I've found behind the ball he has been ok actually reading it ok for some intercept marks, then uses it reasonably well by both hand and foot for a tall. At his height if he can stick to his man then maybe he goes ok and surprises. It's clear he doesn't make the grade as a ruckman so why not try something he might just be less bad at?
This move also allows the ruck minutes to go to Ceglar + Witts which for development reasons as you outlined would help and Gault could be that other who for minor minutes could also swing into the ruck when required.
Thoughts?

What do you think about Young as a tagger? My thoughts of late have been without the ball use + decision making ability I'd use him in the Andrew Carrazzo role of 2012 as that tagger who wins his own ball.

Don't like Ceglar as a no.2 ruckman? Witts with some luck develops into the no.1 ruckman with time, but with Ceglar ok both up forward and through the ruck why aren't you keen on him as a no.2 ruckman to play alongside Jolly next season? Might be his quickest route into the senior squad and his chance at a role from next season.

What do you think about Gault as our no.2 ruckman next year? Has an ok leap on him so in those 10% ruck minutes while also providing that similar positional flexibility L.Brown offered likely also playing forward. Not that same physical presence and a different beast entirely but can play a very similar role I would have thought.

No writeup for Marley Williams? Would like to hear your thoughts on your outlook of his future position? With his inconsistent footskills while he can play a back pocket shutdown type role I'm more interested to see him develop through the midfield into a Dane Swan type with his improving clearance work. I really like his ability to with his physicality just shift the ball forward with his forward momentum and up forward I can see him as a dangerous type in those forward stoppage situations and loading up from 55m in general play. Would love to know whether you think he is capable of developing into a midfielder/forward at all? Or is defence where you see him at the end of the day?

 

[The 10th Letter]

In the scenairo he stays on next season what do you think of Wood the key defender? I've found behind the ball he has been ok actually reading it ok for some intercept marks, then uses it reasonably well by both hand and foot for a tall. At his height if he can stick to his man then maybe he goes ok and surprises. It's clear he doesn't make the grade as a ruckman so why not try something he might just be less bad at?
This move also allows the ruck minutes to go to Ceglar + Witts which for development reasons as you outlined would help and Gault could be that other who for minor minutes could also swing into the ruck when required.
Thoughts?

That's definitely thinking outside of the box, but I can't really see it myself. If he does remain on the list - which is more likely than not if contracted - then I think we'll see more of the same as this year. If the club rules a line through him early, I've got no problem with them throwing him down back at VFL level if only to provide more opportunity for Witts and Ceglar to develop. In saying that, we also have to take our developing key position players into consideration, a returning Keeffe, Hartley and potentially Gault as key defensive options.

The same reasons why Wood doesn't work as a forward would play out down back; mainly that he would be turned far too easily by more agile opponents and he's not a safe enough pair of hands in marking contests to lessen the amount of ground ball he'd have to contend with. As you've mentioned, his positioning in terms of filling space is fairly good, but that's only really a positive when he's dropping back from the ruck and doesn't have to guard anyone in particular. At a similar height, Keeffe manages to work as a key defender because he does have reasonable mobility for his size and I also rate his disposal - particularly by foot - a lot higher than Wood.

What do you think about Young as a tagger? My thoughts of late have been without the ball use + decision making ability I'd use him in the Andrew Carrazzo role of 2012 as that tagger who wins his own ball.

It could work, but he needs to work on his endurance and concentration -- which are possibly linked. At this stage, any midfielder worth tagging would run him ragged within the first quarter and then cut loose. His work at stoppages improved quite a bit this year, but mostly in the offensive sense. Quite often his positioning defensively leaves him stranded without being able to even coral an escaping opponent. He's also lacking pace off the mark, so when a player does hit the jets to push through an opening he doesn't have the toe to apply even perceived pressure.

I do think there's potential in Young, I'm not as convinced as some others that there is no future for him. He's got good size and without having the stats, he would have been one of - if not our - most consistent ball-winners this year. If he can improve his endurance, even marginally whilst learning to use what fuel he has more economically, then he could push a case.

Don't like Ceglar as a no.2 ruckman? Witts with some luck develops into the no.1 ruckman with time, but with Ceglar ok both up forward and through the ruck why aren't you keen on him as a no.2 ruckman to play alongside Jolly next season? Might be his quickest route into the senior squad and his chance at a role from next season.

I'm reasonably confident that Ceglar could provide good minutes up forward, I'm not denouncing him entirely in that role as secondary ruck. I just feel that the game is moving towards the tweener/athletic freak secondary ruck, the guy anywhere from 196-200cm who can produce primarily as a forward, but give good ruck minutes. I'm not entirely convinced that Ceglar is the answer as a predominantly key position forward, as he's just not designed for the quick recovery at ground level, nor applying defensive pressure once the spillage occurs.

I like the way he approaches his work as a forward, but he's still in my mind very much a ruck prospect. I'm not completely ruling out the chance of it working, but he'll need to become a forward that can mark and convert at least 3 to 4 times a game to counteract what he lacks in other areas. Given some of our form struggles this year, I would have liked to have seen him given an opportunity against some lesser lights as the secondary ruck.

He's still light on as well, so most key defenders will compensate for what they lack in height by comfortably outpointing him before the ball arrives.

What do you think about Gault as our no.2 ruckman next year? Has an ok leap on him so in those 10% ruck minutes while also providing that similar positional flexibility L.Brown offered likely also playing forward. Not that same physical presence and a different beast entirely but can play a very similar role I would have thought.

Of the players currently on our list who could fill the role in the future, Gault looks to be the only option. I don't know about next year though, as I was thinking more 2014 and beyond as I think it'll take that long for him to build the required size/strength. As you said, he won't be the Leroy type beast but even as a hit-up target who can use the ball well when delivering inside 50, he has some value there. Having a player such as Gault who could potentially lead up the wings as an option and allow Cloke and one other (Dawes, Paine etc.) to remain deeper would be valuable.

Gault is one who I'm really interested to see in year two, hopefully with some added size and also being given a run in the ruck during the early stages of the VFL season.

No writeup for Marley Williams? Would like to hear your thoughts on your outlook of his future position? With his inconsistent footskills while he can play a back pocket shutdown type role I'm more interested to see him develop through the midfield into a Dane Swan type with his improving clearance work. I really like his ability to with his physicality just shift the ball forward with his forward momentum and up forward I can see him as a dangerous type in those forward stoppage situations and loading up from 55m in general play. Would love to know whether you think he is capable of developing into a midfielder/forward at all? Or is defence where you see him at the end of the day?

I was going to cover Marley during the AFL reviews, as even though he only played a handful of games I felt that at the time of his injury, he was close to being entrenched at the level. This was of course largely due to our injury list, but he gave a good account of himself all the same.

He's obviously got some deficiencies by foot, some of which I think can be ironed out with a bit of experience and composure. He comes unstuck a fair bit by trying to spear his short passes without the perfected kicking mechanics of a Nathan Buckley, or simply by trying to kick the leather off the thing over distance. He's a competitive beast though and your comments regarding his momentum in the contest are astute.

When he was building in the VFL early in the year I made fairly regular comments about his tenacity, I think I may have remarked once or twice that he's about the fastest player on four limbs once he hits the deck -- just manages to keep scrambling. In a perfect world, he'd develop as a player who could routinely run through the midfield to our advantage, but regardless of whether he makes it there or not his mongrel and pure will to win in each contest he approaches should see him become a good role player down back or forward.

Of the players currently on our list, he does seem to be one of a rare few who have the scope to potentially become the tagging, lock down midfielder we've been without for some time. He's frenetic at the moment, hopefully next year and beyond he can begin to find a good balance whereby he keeps that approach for the most part, but anchors it all with more composure.

 

[Knightmare]

Thanks for the detailed response 10th letter. Much appreciated.

Look forward to your AFL review.

 

[larrikan]

Thanks The 10th letter for such a comprehensive review and posting the link here. With out going into too much detail, your Witts/Ceglar opinion is precisely what I was referring to. The VFL is seen as a development team where winning is not a priority. The abundance of talls means wasted opportunity to develop these players. So why did we persevere with Wood and McNamara? Yesterday's HUN said Wood is out of contract this year so I am not sure what his status is. Players like Wood shoul be dominating the VFL demanding a senior call up but that doesn't seem to happen with our VFL side. We rarely see 7 goal + or 35+ possession games.

I like the way GWS recruited mature bodies to assist the youngsters. I don't see why we can't do the same. The VFL side needs to be competitive. Development is restricted in a losing team that doesn't control the game. Many players have been rewarded with senior games through injuries to others and not on merit. These same players should lift to another level when they return to the VFL. Next year will be very interesting to see if this happens with many youngsters who played seniors this year. Luke Rounds is a perfect example of this. After playing senior games he had the opportunity this year to put his hand up and dominate to force his way into the firsts. Now his manager and him have an inflated opinion of his worth and seek opportunity elsewhere. He had opportunity this year and either didn't take it or the VFL system failed him.

Whether the answer is a VFL reserves team or a change of perspective for the VFL team something needs to be done.

 

[larrikan]

Evidence The footy department reads BF lol or we were just on the money

Good move to strengthen VFL team

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