Opinion Commentary & Media VII

[Sphynx]

Who's to say they weren't the only ones interested in coming over? Who's coming over to this shitshow at the moment? Go back to his first interview he did on SEN with Whateley. He mentioned how bloody hard it was to get any player to come over.

Im not saying they might have been the only ones.

But we recruited them, end of.

It reeks of the same conversations I'm reading on this board.

"we need experienced players...." for the sake of experienced players.

OK, and what is the difference between a 24 year old shocking AFL player vs a 33 year old currently shocking AFL player vs a 19 year old shocking AFL player.

Nothing.

Our best player is a 19 year old.

 

[Psi-Roos]

Nobody is saying that.

But it's currency he could have used in any direction he wanted.

The direction he opted for was Dylan Stephens (who I know for a fact was on Clarko's wish list) and Zac Fisher.


It's really not too different to what he did in his final years at Hawthorn with Tom Scully, Tom Phillips and Chad Wingard.


Outside, unaccountable cats.

Who was available with those 2 picks we used on stephens and fisher that we had to use or lose?

Would they have changed our fortunes. Doubtful?

We were given assistance packages that had more strings than a harpsichord. We used them to try to get some depth to cover the experience weve lost. It hasnt worked out.

More kids who probably would have ended up fringe players wasnt adressing that.

 

[Passmore]

Who's to say they weren't the only ones interested in coming over? Who's coming over to this shitshow at the moment? Go back to his first interview he did on SEN with Whateley. He mentioned how bloody hard it was to get any player to come over.

He mentioned that he got Gilham and Guerra due to the connection he had at Port.

No one else was interested because Hawthorn stunk at the time.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

 

[DocSholl]

Noble never had Sheezel, Larkey at his current level and a 25 year old LDU that should be hitting his prime.

Tbf Noble had a prime LDU as soon as he stopped playing him on a flank.

 

[Sphynx]

Who was available with those 2 picks we used on stephens and fisher that we had to use or lose?

Would they have changed our fortunes. Doubtful?

We were given assistance packages that had more strings than a harpsichord. We used them to try to get some depth to cover the experience weve lost. It hasnt worked out.

More kids who probably would have ended up fringe players wasnt adressing that.

I dunno.

I would prefer another Riley Hardeman than a Dylan Stephens, but that's just me.

I have no real issue with the Fisher recruitment, as he had some solid AFL form, looked like a potential solution to half back and still may be a useful player moving forward in another role.

Stephens is a poor example, he was one of the worst players in the league over 40 games of sample size.

His contract should be a sacking offense to all involved.

 

[giantroo]

Im not saying they might have been the only ones.

But we recruited them, end of.

It reeks of the same conversations I'm reading on this board.

"we need experienced players...." for the sake of experienced players.

OK, and what is the difference between a 24 year old shocking AFL player vs a 33 year old currently shocking AFL player vs a 19 year old shocking AFL player.

Nothing.

Our best player is a 19 year old.

Some work, some don't. Guerra, Gilham, Dew, Gibson, Hale, Lake worked for him too.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Some work, some don't. Guerra, Gilham, Gibson, Hale, Lake worked for him too.

Stewart Dew.

 

[Sphynx]

Some work, some don't. Guerra, Gilham, Gibson, Hale, Lake worked for him too.

Gilham and Guerra are comparable, as he took them from Port after coming over from being an assistant.

Gibson, Hale, Lake are not. He recruited them as a finals contender.

Im sure we could recruit some awesome players if we were building towards a finals appearance with some of the young players we have. "IF".

The common trend here is we are reaching back almost 20 years for these examples.

People conveniently ignore his much recent attempts at rebuilding Hawthorn, which seem much more consistent with who he has attempted to bring over here. None of them worked.

Scully & Phillips = Stephens & Fisher

Im waiting for Josh Schache or Sam Weideman at the end of the year to be his Jon Patton at this rate.

 

[koshari]

Everyone was excitied from Noble to Clarkson.

The problem is there has been absolutely no difference in performance.

In fact, it may be worse.


Does Clarko have a better group of players than Noble? Probably.

Noble never had Sheezel, Larkey at his current level and a 25 year old LDU that should be hitting his prime.

probably underselling goldies and mckays value, i wouldnt be to sure the current team is better than his list, regardless the cavilry is still years away.

 

[koshari]

Some work, some don't. Guerra, Gilham, Dew, Gibson, Hale, Lake worked for him too.

just gotta keep churning them through but on shorter contracts with triggers,
, this is the area where we really should be exploiting out extra list spots, its not like we are even coming close to our TPPs

 

[big_e]

On the bigger picture - it’s my 25th anniversary today. In 1999 my partner watched her team win the spoon and mine win the flag. Obviously since then she has enjoyed more footy highs than I have, but it’s reminded me that footy support is a long journey.

God, imagine joining BF and then immediately getting a premiership.

When I joined, the first thing of note to happen was Boris the Chicken.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

God, imagine joining BF and then immediately getting a premiership.

When I joined, the first thing of note to happen when Boris the Chicken.

It’s my real life anniversary - BF didn’t exist then and I don’t think I’d even joined the predecessor North board - so my early time at BF was dominated by the Carey Unpleasantness.

 

[big_e]

It’s my real life anniversary - BF didn’t exist then and I don’t think I’d even joined the predecessor North board - so my early time at BF was dominated by the Carey Unpleasantness.

Ah, my bad.

Well, happy 25th anniversary to you both!

 

[Johnny99]

Pelchen had one of the best 3-4 years in list management history and then got replaced by one of the best list managers/recruiters of the AFL era.

See below...

2004 National draft.

Pick Player

1 Brett Deledio Richmond

2 Jarryd Roughead Hawthorn

3 Ryan Griffen Western Bulldogs

4 Richard Tambling Richmond

5 Lance Franklin Hawthorn

6 Tom Williams Western Bulldogs

7 Jordan Lewis Hawthorn

In summary, Pelchen got really lucky. That's all.

But kudos goes to Clarko, for turning all 3 into stars....

 

[Sphynx]

See below...

2004 National draft.

Pick Player

1 Brett Deledio Richmond

2 Jarryd Roughead Hawthorn

3 Ryan Griffen Western Bulldogs

4 Richard Tambling Richmond

5 Lance Franklin Hawthorn

6 Tom Williams Western Bulldogs

7 Jordan Lewis Hawthorn

In summary, Pelchen got really lucky. That's all.

But kudos goes to Clarko, for turning all 3 into stars....

What about his success at Port?

Involvement at Hawthorn in the 80's and early 90's?


He traded all of Thompson, Hay and Everitt for good picks.

He turned Nathan Lonie into Grant Birchall.


More than luck I think.

 

[spurs]

I dunno.

I would prefer another Riley Hardeman than a Dylan Stephens, but that's just me.

I would have preferred another Hardeman to Stephens too, BUT we didn't have a choice because we needed to trade them.

 

[big_e]

I would have preferred another Hardeman to Stephens too, BUT we didn't have a choice because we needed to trade them.

We didn't have to trade them - they were to be "reviewed". But even if we were strongly encouraged by the AFL to trade them, we didn't have to recruit Stephens.

 

[spurs]

We didn't have to trade them - they were to be "reviewed". But even if we were strongly encouraged by the AFL to trade them, we didn't have to recruit Stephens.

We did need to trade them and you know it. Didn't need to recruit Stephens but he was willing to come and we needed experience. I don't know what happened to him and to an extent Fisher. When I watched the praccy game V Pies they both looked great.

 

[Epictetus]

We did need to trade them and you know it. Didn't need to recruit Stephens but he was willing to come and we needed experience. I don't know what happened to him and to an extent Fisher. When I watched the praccy game V Pies they both looked great.

We did need to trade them.

There are 800 players in the AFL. We chose this bunch. The end.

 

[DocSholl]

We did need to trade them and you know it. Didn't need to recruit Stephens but he was willing to come and we needed experience. I don't know what happened to him and to an extent Fisher. When I watched the praccy game V Pies they both looked great.

I've bolded the explanation for you mate

 

[big_e]

We did need to trade them and you know it. Didn't need to recruit Stephens but he was willing to come and we needed experience. I don't know what happened to him and to an extent Fisher. When I watched the praccy game V Pies they both looked great.

"While the package is set for two years, the AFL Commission reserves the right to review special assistance picks in 2024 should the club materially increase its on-field performance in the 2024 season."

AFL statement on North Melbourne assistance package

The AFL Commission has approved an assistance package to North Melbourne

www.afl.com.au

If they had to be traded, they would have just said so. You know, like they did in 2022.

For the record, I'm not saying we shouldn't have traded those picks. I just think we overpaid for Stephens, and could have done something else with that pick. Truth be known, I never wanted him in the first place, and was howled down for it, too...

 

[Uncle_Leo]

Gilham and Guerra are comparable, as he took them from Port after coming over from being an assistant.

Gibson, Hale, Lake are not. He recruited them as a finals contender.

Im sure we could recruit some awesome players if we were building towards a finals appearance with some of the young players we have. "IF".

The common trend here is we are reaching back almost 20 years for these examples.

People conveniently ignore his much recent attempts at rebuilding Hawthorn, which seem much more consistent with who he has attempted to bring over here. None of them worked.

Scully & Phillips = Stephens & Fisher

Im waiting for Josh Schache or Sam Weideman at the end of the year to be his Jon Patton at this rate.

I'll back in the bloke with 4 flags over the last 20 years as opposed to a bunch of blokes who have won 12 of their last 91 games.

These players are horrific, no coach in the world could help them,

 

[William Caresser]

Appointing Clarkson and continuing to perform badly should at least satisfy the Board and us that the club's failings go way beyond coaching - ie we have systemic failings in senior player culture, skill, and performance, fitness, player development and mature age recruiting. Not that we didn't highly suspect all that but if we'd appointed another novice coach - or even an experienced coach with a so-so record (and a bunch of average assistants) we still might think we mainly had a big coaching problem.

Even if you think Clarkson had less of a role than others (like Pelchen) in Hawthorn's four flags (and was basically in the right place at the right time) it just proves how bad we're currently performing in those other areas and how important they are to get right. Clarko is the constant between 4 flags and our 0-6 at 57%.

Sure some of us would prefer to see him drop underperforming senior players, play guys in different positions and get the mouthguards out at training far more often. And we'd like to see Clarko get angry and not be so defeatist ("we know where we're at" sounds too fatalistic). But really, Clarko hasn't lost it - put him charge of a top side and he'd win more flags.

The list management - particularly the pro scouting - needs to be reviewed ASAP. We can't keep making mature age recruitment mistakes. Michael Barlow has just begun in player development. This is all going to take time unfortunately.

 

[Caracas]

The issue with this stat, its complete bollocks. If the 666 rules, the ridiculous bullshit stand rule and the “protected” zone rules (which wasnt paid to us on a few occasions last evening). These previous s**t teams would have more losses and larger margins to their losses.

These rule changes demoralise s**t teams. So, the stats really need to start and stop on the old afl and start again on us as we are the bench mark s**t team on the new era of AFL. A game with rules I simply struggle to understand.

The thing is, Duck, every team plays under the same rules at all times - conspiracy theories aside. Somebody always has to wear the arbitrary “badge” from time to time. It’s our turn. We’d dump on the Saints or the Bullies - if it was their turn. For mine, it’s chin up, back straight, face forward time. Otherwise, we’re just that pathetic guy scream-whinging in the cheer squad on Sunday. I’ve done my fair share of pathetic whinging on the couch watching interstate games - ask my wife. As long as we come back from this, it will all be superfluous.

 

[gustaaf]

just gotta keep churning them through but on shorter contracts with triggers,
, this is the area where we really should be exploiting out extra list spots, its not like we are even coming close to our TPPs

I can't see us ever improve by trading for rejects from other clubs. When was the last time that really worked? Obviously bringing in quality RFAs would help, but they won't come to our shitshow. I don't know why we have virtually totally ignored category B rookies. Carlton is already in Ireland in an effort to land the most talented ones possibly available. Why can't we be doing that? Basketball is another avenue. We have to do something different to find players who can make a difference, even if it isn't immediate.