News Compensation Pick for Krakouer

[Magpiespower]

Better than expected...

 

[elsler]

You can guarentee ablett would be classified as a band 1 i bet theyd take he has won a brownlow into consideration that would be thier justifcation for it

 

[Unrivaled Mach]

Although the pick may not be as high as we would have liked, I think it is better to use it now/next year and develop a player rather than wait X amount of years to use it.
Just because it is a mid-range pick doesnt mean we couldn't get a decent player and develop him.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Are some posters in this thread serious? The best player in the game can't be rated band 1, cos of where he was drafted and the fact that Nathan Bock has been an all Australian once?

My favourite bit was when the Crows compared Bock to Burgoyne, sayin they were similar players. Hahahahahahahahaha. Apparently that meant Bock was worth two first rounders. There's so much wrong with that argument, I don't know where to begin.

 

[Phhht]

the classification for which band a player is determined at is done purely by age and salary isn't it? Ablett will be on what? double Bock's

dont thinkit has anything to do with AA, B&Fs,original draft picks etc.

 

[Asgardian]

The AFL article says the pick is taken at the end of round 2 for the next 5 years

Can't even troll accurately

I absolutely agree with the Crows on this one.

If Gary Ablett Jr goes to GC and is rated a higher band than Bock, then this is yet another Victorian rort. Same age, both are multiple All-Australians. Neither drafted in the first two draft rounds of their draft year.

Get off the grass mate

Bock has one AA season, and one club B&F, no premierships and no Brownlows

Now have a look at Ablett's career

AFL
Brownlow medal 2009
All Australian 2007, 2008, 2009
AFLPA MVP 2007, 2008, 2009
AFLCA Player of the Year 2007, 2008, 2009
Herald Sun Player of the Year 2007
The Age Player of the Year 2007

Geelong
Best and fairest 2007, 2009
Runner up best and fairest 2008
Third best and fairest 2005, 2006
Fourth best and fairest 2003
Leading goal kicker 2006
Most improved player 2003
Best team and most constructive player 2004

Premierships
VFL 2002 (Geelong dft. Port Melbourne)
NAB Cup 2006 (Geelong dft. Adelaide)
AFL 2007 (Geelong dft Port Adelaide)
NAB Cup 2009 (Geelong dft. Collingwood)
AFL 2009 (Geelong dft. St Kilda)

Ablett is so far in front of Bock it aint even close

 

[Portia]

Yeah those NAB Cup premierships, Melbourne media awards and generic club awards really distance him from Bock.

Who can compete with Most Improved Player 2003???

In summary, I don't see how one Brownlow medal (the only significant difference that could be fairly applied across the board) could lift Ablett up two bands higher than Bock, particularly given that as a key position player Bock is ineligible for the Brownlow anyway.

 

[Asgardian]

It's not one Brownlow, it's one Brownlow, PLUS 3 time AA PLUS 3 time AFL Players Association MVP PLUS 3 time AFL Coaches Association MVP PLUS 2 time Premiership player.

Bock aint in the same league

 

[Portia]

Premierships aren't relevant, because they can't be applied reasonably across the board. Compensation is supposed to apply fairly to every club.

You make it sound like 11 years of awards, when it is 3.

I still can't see how Ablett could be two bands higher than Bock. One I could buy, but two is ridiculous.

 

[Asgardian]

Premierships in isolation, no, you are correct

BUT

Being the best player in the best team for (as an example) the last 4 years, well that is very relevant.

If the best player in the competition is not worth tier 1, who is?

You probably are not arguing that, you probably want to see Bock as a tier 2 player, correct?

But I do not see Bock, based on the future prospects of his career, taking into account the injuries that are now accumulating plus 2010 season, is now worthy of anything other than a tier 3 compensation.

Ablett is injury free, still at the peak of his form and is the current best in the competition.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Hehe. Maybe the same people who decide what compensation should be given are also on the Match Review Panel. You know, the ones that let Judd off the hook one week and then came down like a ton of bricks on Stephen Baker the following week.

I think Porthos estimation of one band higher is about right but then if you listened to Crowies pooh poohing Bocks current value once he signed with the Empire of the Sun...well maybe the adjudicators went with that.

Just getting back to Krakouer and being serious I'm wondering Porthos what you think of the compensation we got?

We got him with Pick #39 four years ago. Clearly he can seriously play but has been held back by injury and character issues.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The contract offer is also a significant criteria in establishing a player's value - we won't know what players are getting offered, but going by media speculation, Ablett will probably get near double what Bock will pull in. So that has to be added to the other factors, and may well be the primary determining criteria.

As for Krakouer, in the open market we probably wouldn't have scored much better than we did here, his injury problems and general flakiness mean we have never consistently seen the best of him. I still rate him a very talented player, whether he can transition that to very good player remains to be seen.

 

[Malibu#27]

I think its pretty obvious that unless a player is deemed to be a band 1 player, that the club they leave is not going to be compensated anywhere near what they would get on the open market. I guess the AFL is encouraging clubs to NOT use the compensation picks in the next 2 years.

Bock would get more than pick 26 on the open market, I doubt he would get two picks inside the top 16 though. Maybe a pick in the 10 - 20 band would be the chop. That being said, if Ablett was also available on the open market, I'm betting the offers for him would be noticeably greater than for Bock (who plays a Chad Cornes style unaccountable defensive role)
In two years, they would get about pick 17 for him.


Even Krakouer on the open market would get a little more than pick 35. (We can achieve this by holding the pick back for 2 years, and we would then get a pick in the 17 - 32 range depending on where we finish.

 

[wapower]

I absolutely agree with the Crows on this one.

If Gary Ablett Jr goes to GC and is rated a higher band than Bock, then this is yet another Victorian rort. Same age, both are multiple All-Australians. Neither drafted in the first two draft rounds of their draft year.

I don't agree with the Crows on this one. Bock is worth what they got. He's been on the decline for some time.

 

[Portia]

Compensation for Krakouer I am fine with to be honest, if you look at the player he currently is, and that ultimately he is just a flanker. That said, how much of his form is down to GC's offer?

Mostly I am concerned that this compensation model will be carried over to GWS, and that next time it'll be one of our KPPs or actual midfielders that we lose for **** all because he's not getting awards given by the Victorian media and their lackeys.

 

[Portia]

I don't agree with the Crows on this one. Bock is worth what they got. He's been on the decline for some time.

Thats cool, but lets compare him to someone like Jonathan Hay. Former All-Australian fullback. Had one good year but most of his career was just OK.

Hawthorn insisted that he was worth two first-round draft picks, which they basically got because Port were so desperate for Motlop in 2005. One from the Kangas, and one from us for Lonie (ha ha).

How many times do 27 year old All-Australian key position players change clubs for less than a first round + benefits?

 

[Phhht]

The contract offer is also a significant criteria in establishing a player's value - we won't know what players are getting offered, but going by media speculation, Ablett will probably get near double what Bock will pull in. So that has to be added to the other factors, and may well be the primary determining criteria.

As for Krakouer, in the open market we probably wouldn't have scored much better than we did here, his injury problems and general flakiness mean we have never consistently seen the best of him. I still rate him a very talented player, whether he can transition that to very good player remains to be seen.

I believe that going by the "formula" that the AFL are using, it is along with a players age THE ONLY determining factors for the compensation pick

Premierships aren't relevant, because they can't be applied reasonably across the board. Compensation is supposed to apply fairly to every club.

You make it sound like 11 years of awards, when it is 3.

I still can't see how Ablett could be two bands higher than Bock. One I could buy, but two is ridiculous.

Come on Porthos, since when have you known the AFL to be fair?

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Compensation for Krakouer I am fine with to be honest, if you look at the player he currently is, and that ultimately he is just a flanker. That said, how much of his form is down to GC's offer?

Mostly I am concerned that this compensation model will be carried over to GWS, and that next time it'll be one of our KPPs or actual midfielders that we lose for **** all because he's not getting awards given by the Victorian media and their lackeys.

Yeah we dodged a bullet this time.

 

[Steve Dore]

I believe that going by the "formula" that the AFL are using, it is along with a players age THE ONLY determining factors for the compensation pick ......

That is my understanding also. The compensation pick is determined using the players age and the amount the Gold Coast ended up paying for him. The players experience, awards, accolades etc have no direct bearing on it, they only influence how hard a bargain the Gold Coast is willing to consider. The player's managers negotiating skills has more bearing on the compensation than the number of premierships the player has or hasn't payed in.

Link

.... The level of compensation was determined by the new contract offer received by each player and his future earning and playing capacity. ....

Link

 

[Natman]

That is my understanding also. The compensation pick is determined using the players age and the amount the Gold Coast ended up paying for him. The players experience, awards, accolades etc have no direct bearing on it, they only influence how hard a bargain the Gold Coast is willing to consider. The player's managers negotiating skills has more bearing on the compensation than the number of premierships the player has or hasn't payed in.

Link
Link

If future earning and playing capacity is a large component of the compensation determination, then the fact that Krakwhore is 5 years younger than Bock, and GAJ for that matter, shouldn't that mean a better return for us?

 

[wapower]

Thats cool, but lets compare him to someone like Jonathan Hay. Former All-Australian fullback. Had one good year but most of his career was just OK.

Hawthorn insisted that he was worth two first-round draft picks, which they basically got because Port were so desperate for Motlop in 2005. One from the Kangas, and one from us for Lonie (ha ha).

How many times do 27 year old All-Australian key position players change clubs for less than a first round + benefits?

The problem with this is we know what transpired from the Hay trade. North Melbourne have every right to be aggrieved with Hawthorn and effectively had their pants pulled down.

Bock's played one very good season in his career. Before that he was a squib and since then he's been on again off again with injuries punctuated with some good and some very average form.

Adelaide can use that pick in the next 5 years. It's not like they are orphans devoid of the ability to read the compensation rules package.

 

[Portia]

OK, how about Darryl Wakelin for another example? He was 26 when we traded pick 4 for him, and he wasn't even an All-Australian.

Band 3 for any All-Australian key backman is small beer.

 

[Steve Dore]

If future earning and playing capacity is a large component of the compensation determination, then the fact that Krakwhore is 5 years younger than Bock, and GAJ for that matter, shouldn't that mean a better return for us?

The younger the player the higher the compensation. So if both Bock and Krak are on the same value and length contract at Gold Coast then Krak's compensation should be higher. I doubt Bock and Krak are on the same money and who knows what weighting the AFL gives to age so there is really no way of comparing the two.

 

[FishingRick04]

The younger the player the higher the compensation. So if both Bock and Krak are on the same value and length contract at Gold Coast then Krak's compensation should be higher. I doubt Bock and Krak are on the same money and who knows what weighting the AFL gives to age so there is really no way of comparing the two.

They have so many first round picks it isn't funny.

The AFL should have offered a first rounder pick to any uncontracted players "stolen" by the GC. Preference of order determined by the bias and influence of the Victorian media?

Sounds reasonable to me

 

[Natman]

That is what annoys me about the compensation picks - they effectively impact all 17-18 teams "equally" and not just the one that gains the players - unfair and unjust, but why use those qualities when the AFL is involved in building a dynasty or two.