Confess - What players did you want your club to draft?

[Snookers]

Another good thread RUNVS.

2017: The one I was most keen on at 7/8 was Aiden Bonar, as I just reckon if his knees hold up he has the weapons to reach as high as the Danger/Dusty types.

Way to get me aroused whilst sitting at my desk on a Tuesday morning.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

2010 - Brodie Smith (Brodie Smith)
2011- Sam Kerridge (Bradley Hill)
2012- Didn't care (Sam Siggins)
2013: Luke Dunstan (Matt Crouch)
2014: Jake Lever (Jake Lever)
2015: Charlie Curnow (Wayne Milera)
2016: Jordan Gallucci (Jarrod Berry)
2017: Darcy Fogerty (Darcy Fogerty)

 

[Bazza97]

I haven't really followed the draft as close as I used to in the past few years but these were the players I was keen on between 2012-2013.

2012 - Wines at pick 4 & Matthew Dick (now delisted) at pick 48. We took Toumpas (lol) and Kent respectively with those two picks.
2013 - Freeman at pick 9, Knight & Fantasia at either pick 40 or 57. Took Salem, Jay Kennedy Harris and Jayden Hunt with those three picks.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

2013 was when I really started paying attention

2013 - Jack Billings, James Aish
2014 - Jayden Laverde, Connor Menadue
2015 - Ryan Burton, Riley Bonner
2016 - Jy Simpkin, Todd Marshall
2017 - Ed Richards, Nathan Murphy

 

[Rockstar6]

Going off our first 2 picks for the last 5 drafts and who we got:
2013 - McDonald and L.Taylor (McDonald/Dumont)
2014 - Lever and T.Miller (Durdin and Nielsen)
2015 - Tucker and Hibberd (B.McKay/Hibberd)
2016 - Florent and J.Atley (Simpkin/D.Watson)
2017 - Dow and L.Fogarty (Davies-Uniacke/W.Walker)

 

[Ysaye]

Only doing the 1st picks and only players who were available (2003 was when I first started properly following the draft) - and yes have a laugh:

2003: Wanted the club to get Beau Waters - we got Ryley Dunn (Win to me)
2004: Wanted the club to get Daniel Haines - we got Benet Copping (Draw)
2005: Wanted the club to get Beau Muston - we got Marcus Drum (Draw)
2006: Wanted the club to get Clayton Collard - we got Clayton Collard (Draw)
2007: Wanted the club to get Cyril Rioli - we got Rhys Palmer (Win to me)
2008: Wanted the club to get Daniel Rich - we got Stephen Hill (Win to the club)
2009: Wanted the club to get John Butcher - we got Anthony Morabito (Win to the club)
2010: Wanted the club to get Jack Darling - we got Jayden Pitt (Win to me)
2011: Wanted the club to get Fraser McInnes - we got Tom Sheridan (Win to the club)
2012: Wanted the club to get Josh Simpson - we got Josh Simpson (draw)
2013: Wanted the club to get Blake Acres - we got Michael Apeness (Win to me?)
2014: Wanted the club to get Sam Durdin - we got Lachie Weller (Win to the club?)
2015: Wanted the club to get Darcy Tucker - we got Darcy Tucker (draw)
2016: Wanted the club to get Todd Marshall - we got Griffin Logue (Win to the club? To even to call)
2017: Wanted the club to get Adam Cerra - we got Andrew Brayshaw (Win to the club because they got Cerra cheaper anyway?)

Reflecting on what we know now, the club probably wins out (as it should).

Other random thoughts:
(1) In my defence, I watched a lot of Collard and Simpson before they got drafted and they looked really good (I though Collard was the second coming of Jason Akermanis and Simpson's speed and skill combination was fantastic).
(1) I wanted us to get Ben Brown with a later pick in the first year he was available - I took him in phantom drafts multiple times before he actually got drafted. I actually then went off him the year he was drafted.....
(3) Whilst I have listed Jack Darling (I wanted a key position player), I was almost equally shocked that Luke Parker dropped past and he would have been close to being my preferred player had I even thought he was chance to be at our first pick.
(4) In 2011, if we weren't getting McInnes I wanted Hamling or Kersten. I thought Kersten was possibly elite but the sub-height was a bit of a worry, as was his attitude. I also wanted Crozier, and thought Forster was pretty good; I just couldn't understand why we took three midfielders with our first three picks. Still probably the year I disliked the drafting the most.

 

[Ysaye]

2017 - Brayshaw and Cerra
2016 - Logue
2015 - Tucker/Bonner
2014 - Lever
2013 - Gardiner
2012 - Simpson (totally wrong)
2011 - Mckenzie
2010 - Darling
2009 - Morabito and Bastinac (total wrong)
2008 - Hill
2007 - Forgot who I wanted
2006 - Palmer
2005 - Forgot who I wanted
2004 - Swallow

2009 I wanted Butcher and Bastinac so I was crazier than you (although it was close between Bastinac and Fyfe for the second pick). And I didn't want Rance.

 

[Tbonefreo]

2009 I wanted Butcher and Bastinac so I was crazier than you (although it was close between Bastinac and Fyfe for the second pick). And I didn't want Rance.

The only thing I remember about Fyfe in his draft year was that in the inside footy write up it said he had massive hands and needed to grow into them.

 

[eastfreo75]

2009 I wanted Butcher and Bastinac so I was crazier than you (although it was close between Bastinac and Fyfe for the second pick). And I didn't want Rance.

Hey, I got free tickets to that draft.

I shouted with disapproval when we selected Fyfe and not Bastinac. Both Mark Robinson and Brad Green look at me (thinking who is that knob).

Massive egg on my face and totally glad we got Fyfe.

 

[Knightmare]

If we're talking mistakes, and misses are always the most instructive and the best place to start. Troy Taylor (2009), Waylon Manson (2011) and Reece McKenzie (2014) and are among those I got sucked into in the biggest ways.

Troy Taylor despite hoping Collingwood would draft him, wasn't available at pick 62 to be taken by them anyway. But if he was, I would have been all over him at that time. Even beyond his off-field question-marks, in hindsight the other indicator that would see me skip on him if he was in the draft today was his production. From memory without stats in front of me, he only averaged about a goal per game through the u18 champs and he wasn't finding enough of the ball. Special in flashes, but that's not enough to draft someone in the national draft on the back of. It's too low %.

Waylon Manson was another in hindsight obvious miss who many will be aware of if they watched the first season of The Recruit. At the time, I was enchanted by his play in the NTFL. He was good for 10 goal hauls and was taking a stack of marks. He was plucking everything out of the sky and was alongside Fevola sharing the spotlight and looking almost his equal. Having that talent and that production, I still feel he had the capacity to be something like a better Liam Jurrah, had he continued playing, or had he been drafted. But seeing him on The Recruit. It's incredible how underwhelming his performance was, having seen his NTFL football, I fully expected he would carry that same dominant brand of footy over to that program, but he just didn't seem to have that kind of on-field impact, probably just not playing much footy and letting himself go I can only imagine after the disappointment of not getting drafted. But in hindsight, mentally, just watching him on the program. Would he have made it? Maybe you could take him as a rookie if not all that keen on anyone else, otherwise he's someone you'd want trying out for your VFL side to have him under your nose and see if he can make the adjustment.

Reece McKenzie in 2014 was another I was fully invested in. I could have made a case for him on performance and attributes that he could have been taken before McCartin or Wright. For me he was in that conversation. And with the strength, speed, big hands, incredible contested marking capabilities. He had the scope to be someone. He wasn't without imperfections, endurance needed to continue to improve, as did his leading patterns, kicking could improve etc. Had he not quit on footy though, he had the scope to develop, at least into something like Levi Casboult. He's one where I just didn't have the insight into what he was going through and had no idea of the challenges he was going through.



Legendary calls?

Ben Brown. Referred to him through 2010/2011 as a first round quality key forward and called for him both years to feature in the national draft and was on my draft board both years. It took Ben Brown until 2013 to get picked after a strong VFL season, after making the move from Tasmania. Loved his sheer reliability in front of goal, liked his height, contested marking, mobility and cleanness at ground level feeling it would prove a winning mix. Even with the ACL in 2010, he was I one I believed should be drafted and stashed until ready to go.

Had Anthony Tipungwuti in my top 40 (2012) and it took him until 2015 to get drafted as a rookie. Just loved not only the speed and power but the sheer energy he played with. Back or forward.

Kyle Hartigan 2009 through until he was drafted in 2012 I kept bringing up his name when asked about key defenders. Liked him and felt he should have gone top 40 back in 2009 and was surprised to see him fall through, having a solid game even then.

I hoped Collingwood would draft Tom Langdon in 2012 and listed him in my yearly Knightsight v Hinesight v Hindsight thread with one of the Pies late picks. As it turns out he gets drafted by Collingwood in 2013 which I also was a strong advocate for, rating his production highly and the way he read the ball and intercepted down back which has carried over at AFL level.

 

[Procrastinator35]

2001 Super-Draft:

Pick 16....We selected Rick Ladson........Wanted Steve Johnston, also had James Kelly ahead of him.....Bad loss there.
Pick 20....We selected Daniel Elstone.....Unbelievably Steve Johnston was still on the table.....Book thrown across the Room in a mega-tantrum.
Pick 32....We selected Campbell Brown....Wanted Sam Mitchell & was ready to explode.
Pick 36.....We Selected Sam Mitchell......Sanity restored, began to calm down.

2008 Draft:

Pick 34....We selected Liam Shiels....Wanted Rory Sloane....Both from Eastern Rangers...Took shiels as the 1 under-aged allowance.

2009 Draft:

Pick 39....We selected Sam Grimley....Wanted Nathan Vardy

2010 Draft:

Pick 38....We selected Mitch Hallahan....Wanted the absolute steal in Luke Parker....Both played for the Dandy Stingrays & there was no comparison....Spat the dummy big time.

2013 Draft:

Pick 24....We selected Billy Hartung.....Wanted Matt Crouch....Missed out on him by 1 draft place.

 

[TradeDraft]

If we're talking mistakes, and misses are always the most instructive and the best place to start. Troy Taylor (2009), Waylon Manson (2011) and Reece McKenzie (2014) and are among those I got sucked into in the biggest ways.

Troy Taylor despite hoping Collingwood would draft him, wasn't available at pick 62 to be taken by them anyway. But if he was, I would have been all over him at that time. Even beyond his off-field question-marks, in hindsight the other indicator that would see me skip on him if he was in the draft today was his production. From memory without stats in front of me, he only averaged about a goal per game through the u18 champs and he wasn't finding enough of the ball. Special in flashes, but that's not enough to draft someone in the national draft on the back of. It's too low %.

Waylon Manson was another in hindsight obvious miss who many will be aware of if they watched the first season of The Recruit. At the time, I was enchanted by his play in the NTFL. He was good for 10 goal hauls and was taking a stack of marks. He was plucking everything out of the sky and was alongside Fevola sharing the spotlight and looking almost his equal. Having that talent and that production, I still feel he had the capacity to be something like a better Liam Jurrah, had he continued playing, or had he been drafted. But seeing him on The Recruit. It's incredible how underwhelming his performance was, having seen his NTFL football, I fully expected he would carry that same dominant brand of footy over to that program, but he just didn't seem to have that kind of on-field impact, probably just not playing much footy and letting himself go I can only imagine after the disappointment of not getting drafted. But in hindsight, mentally, just watching him on the program. Would he have made it? Maybe you could take him as a rookie if not all that keen on anyone else, otherwise he's someone you'd want trying out for your VFL side to have him under your nose and see if he can make the adjustment.

Find it Intresting 2 of your Big Mistakes Knightmare where Aboriginal Boys who would have Fantastic Highlight Video's but never make it.

I just think Aboriginals that come from the Bush/Country find it very hard to be Professional Footballers

 

[Knightmare]

Find it Intresting 2 of your Big Mistakes Knightmare where Aboriginal Boys who would have Fantastic Highlight Video's but never make it.

I just think Aboriginals that come from the Bush/Country find it very hard to be Professional Footballers

It's certainly hard making the adjustment both culturally and to the professionalism of the competition. There are other challenges with language and education in a lot of cases - and that makes learning and understanding structures a challenge practically speaking.

That said, with the support systems AFL clubs have in place - that continue to improve. The education opportunities that are available. I believe there is still a place for these types if they have the talent and desire. But it's something that needs a lot more work, because ultimately, we want the best footballers in the AFL, and there are a lot of Aboriginal Australian's with special talent who I and many others would love to see out on the biggest stage.

Manson and Taylor didn't have that desire and found it too hard. So it didn't happen for them.

And it's the clubs who are best positioned to make those calls - looking into their backgrounds, doing their personality profiling, talking to those around them to get a feel for who they are and if they'll put in the work or not.

As someone outside the system, my job is judging talent and production. So unless/until I hear something damning or I see something out on the field that rings major alarm bells, I'll give benefit of the doubt and let the clubs make those final calls on these types.

 

[TradeDraft]

It's certainly hard making the adjustment both culturally and to the professionalism of the competition. There are other challenges with language and education in a lot of cases - and that makes learning and understanding structures a challenge practically speaking.

That said, with the support systems AFL clubs have in place - that continue to improve. The education opportunities that are available. I believe there is still a place for these types if they have the talent and desire. But it's something that needs a lot more work, because ultimately, we want the best footballers in the AFL, and there are a lot of Aboriginal Australian's with special talent who I and many others would love to see out on the biggest stage.

Manson and Taylor didn't have that desire and found it too hard. So it didn't happen for them.

And it's the clubs who are best positioned to make those calls - looking into their backgrounds, doing their personality profiling, talking to those around them to get a feel for who they are and if they'll put in the work or not.

As someone outside the system, my job is judging talent and production. So unless/until I hear something damning or I see something out on the field that rings major alarm bells, I'll give benefit of the doubt and let the clubs make those final calls on these types.

Very True. Clubs know lot more than BigFooty Posters and Even People like you who do work in the Media.

McKenzie is the Good One. On Here he was top 30 Pick at Worst but Clubs knew about his Demons/Mental Issues so lot of teams would of taken them off there Draft Board because of that

 

[TallyHawk]

2014 wanted Lachlan Weller (traded picks not in the hunt), Tom Lamb, got Dan Howe (happy with that).

2015 wanted Daniel Rioli and Kieren Collins got Ryan Burton (didn't think he would slide) and Kieren Lovell ( about to break out).

2016 traded picks for Jaeger & Tom Mitchell, wanted Jy Simpkin to slide got Harry Morrison.

2017 traded picks for Impey, wanted Bonar/Spargo and Joel Garner to slide. Bonar went early, Spargo went where expected and we overlooked Garner for Worpel. Would've been nice to have Joel & Todd (academy) Garner in Hawks colors. Picked up Dylan Moore too.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Doro]

It's certainly hard making the adjustment both culturally and to the professionalism of the competition. There are other challenges with language and education in a lot of cases - and that makes learning and understanding structures a challenge practically speaking.

That said, with the support systems AFL clubs have in place - that continue to improve. The education opportunities that are available. I believe there is still a place for these types if they have the talent and desire. But it's something that needs a lot more work, because ultimately, we want the best footballers in the AFL, and there are a lot of Aboriginal Australian's with special talent who I and many others would love to see out on the biggest stage.

Manson and Taylor didn't have that desire and found it too hard. So it didn't happen for them.

And it's the clubs who are best positioned to make those calls - looking into their backgrounds, doing their personality profiling, talking to those around them to get a feel for who they are and if they'll put in the work or not.

As someone outside the system, my job is judging talent and production. So unless/until I hear something damning or I see something out on the field that rings major alarm bells, I'll give benefit of the doubt and let the clubs make those final calls on these types.

It's an interesting point, you can draw a lot of information from observation on field, but some of the most important info such as personal drive/attitude isn't as readily available. Maybe this will be the next step in draft info media, an increase in personality profiling?

 

[Knightmare]

It's an interesting point, you can draw a lot of information from observation on field, but some of the most important info such as personal drive/attitude isn't as readily available. Maybe this will be the next step in draft info media, an increase in personality profiling?

It's a tricky and sensitive topic. Is it the right thing to do by kids or their families to say - this guy doesn't want it, doesn't have the mental fortitude, is a rubbish bloke, is into drugs, an alcoholic, struggling with mental health issues etc?

For me it feels out of bounds. What if we get something wrong? Is it right for these issues of 17/18 year old's to be public information? I'd be inclined to say not.

Maybe we could do it more and just not report it or really passively report it? Or just report those overwhelmingly impressive personality types?

Even then, some guys can be the best quality guys, work their butts off, and they still may not make it. Joel Wilkinson who was one I loved at the time he was taken by Gold Coast's Academy knowing how hard he works. But it didn't practically lead to on field results. Then you have others where from a personality profile perspective, it's not great reading, but when they get into the AFL system, they're just so talented that they become great anyway and even better than similarly talented guys who are noted for their work ethics and professionalism, or maybe they change their work ethic in the AFL system and turn things around for themselves. So it's something you can't over-rely on either.

I see and talk to the families of the players in the crowds most weekends, so with some of them, I get some feel anyway eg. a parent of another kid may tell me - Andrew McGrath is a great quality kid who puts in the work and shows leadership qualities, he's one who will make the most of his opportunity. And that person was right on the money as we all well know now. And you can get into the rooms with the players and get a feel for who they are - though again it's another case of I prefer not too as I want my focus to be on what I see on the field and analysing whether they can play rather than over-analysing whether they're extroverted, introverted, get too down or not down enough after a loss etc. I'd much rather analyse in greater depth their games - as I don't see enough of it in the AFL industry. It's a lot of - we're trying to make a news story and create an issue or create a headline - rather than providing proper analysis of games/players which is more my interest.

Maybe someone else goes more down the route you're suggesting though to differentiate when looking at junior talent. They'd just need to tread carefully and not go overboard in their weighting of personality/character/professionalism etc.

 

[Andronicus]

2001 Super-Draft:

Pick 16....We selected Rick Ladson........Wanted Steve Johnston, also had James Kelly ahead of him.....Bad loss there.
Pick 20....We selected Daniel Elstone.....Unbelievably Steve Johnston was still on the table.....Book thrown across the Room in a mega-tantrum.
Pick 32....We selected Campbell Brown....Wanted Sam Mitchell & was ready to explode.
Pick 36.....We Selected Sam Mitchell......Sanity restored, began to calm down.

2008 Draft:

Pick 34....We selected Liam Shiels....Wanted Rory Sloane....Both from Eastern Rangers...Took shiels as the 1 under-aged allowance.

2009 Draft:

Pick 39....We selected Sam Grimley....Wanted Nathan Vardy

2010 Draft:

Pick 38....We selected Mitch Hallahan....Wanted the absolute steal in Luke Parker....Both played for the Dandy Stingrays & there was no comparison....Spat the dummy big time.

2013 Draft:

Pick 24....We selected Billy Hartung.....Wanted Matt Crouch....Missed out on him by 1 draft place.

You conveniently wanted all the players that went on to be great.

Almost like you "wanted" then with the benefit of hindsight and a review years later.

Not much mention of those you wanted that turned out to be busts.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You conveniently wanted all the players that went on to be great.

Almost like you "wanted" then with the benefit of hindsight and a review years later.

Not much mention of those you wanted that turned out to be busts.

I felt there was not much point in mentioning the busts.

I was happy with our selections of Ellis ahead of Pendlebury & Dowler ahead of Ryder & then Thorp the year after ahead of Selwood....Based upon their junior careers.

But yes....I only mentioned what I felt were the standout misses.

Elstone ahead of Johnston & Hallahan ahead of Parker were completely incomprehensible based upon their junior careers to that date.

 

[Doro]

It's a tricky and sensitive topic. Is it the right thing to do by kids or their families to say - this guy doesn't want it, doesn't have the mental fortitude, is a rubbish bloke, is into drugs, an alcoholic, struggling with mental health issues etc?

For me it feels out of bounds. What if we get something wrong? Is it right for these issues of 17/18 year old's to be public information? I'd be inclined to say not.

Maybe we could do it more and just not report it or really passively report it? Or just report those overwhelmingly impressive personality types?

Even then, some guys can be the best quality guys, work their butts off, and they still may not make it. Joel Wilkinson who was one I loved at the time he was taken by Gold Coast's Academy knowing how hard he works. But it didn't practically lead to on field results. Then you have others where from a personality profile perspective, it's not great reading, but when they get into the AFL system, they're just so talented that they become great anyway and even better than similarly talented guys who are noted for their work ethics and professionalism, or maybe they change their work ethic in the AFL system and turn things around for themselves. So it's something you can't over-rely on either.

I see and talk to the families of the players in the crowds most weekends, so with some of them, I get some feel anyway eg. a parent of another kid may tell me - Andrew McGrath is a great quality kid who puts in the work and shows leadership qualities, he's one who will make the most of his opportunity. And that person was right on the money as we all well know now. And you can get into the rooms with the players and get a feel for who they are - though again it's another case of I prefer not too as I want my focus to be on what I see on the field and analysing whether they can play rather than over-analysing whether they're extroverted, introverted, get too down or not down enough after a loss etc. I'd much rather analyse in greater depth their games - as I don't see enough of it in the AFL industry. It's a lot of - we're trying to make a news story and create an issue or create a headline - rather than providing proper analysis of games/players which is more my interest.

Maybe someone else goes more down the route you're suggesting though to differentiate when looking at junior talent. They'd just need to tread carefully and not go overboard in their weighting of personality/character/professionalism etc.

Maybe it's just the word 'drive' I'm most interested in. Seems to be a common lack in the failed careers, along with injury. The information about draftees has increased exponentially in recent years, so I don't think it crosses the boundary personally.

 

[Knightmare]

Maybe it's just the word 'drive' I'm most interested in. Seems to be a common lack in the failed careers, along with injury. The information about draftees has increased exponentially in recent years, so I don't think it crosses the boundary personally.

It's a key factor in AFL success. For sure. And even those who aren't model citizens and have their off-field issues and still have that drive to be great footballs.

That said, the training standards/frequency/duration/intensity aren't the same in the juniors and it's not reasonable or practical for it to replicate that we see from AFL clubs. For some, they can manage that really well in the juniors, but struggle at AFL level. Conversely, some may struggle with it as juniors but really change their habits once they get to AFL level.

And throwing guys under the bus at that age. I'm not comfortable with that.

If guys are putting in a mountain of work (well above any of their peers) and clearly sure to take those standards to AFL level - Jack Higgins being a key example of this from last year. They deserve all the credit in the world, as Jack has received from I imagine a lot of us who have been speaking about the draft, just to name one player from last years draft who has an incredible appetite for work and desire to get the most out of himself.

 

[Doro]

It's a key factor in AFL success. For sure. And even those who aren't model citizens and have their off-field issues and still have that drive to be great footballs.

That said, the training standards/frequency/duration/intensity aren't the same in the juniors and it's not reasonable or practical for it to replicate that we see from AFL clubs. For some, they can manage that really well in the juniors, but struggle at AFL level. Conversely, some may struggle with it as juniors but really change their habits once they get to AFL level.

And throwing guys under the bus at that age. I'm not comfortable with that.

If guys are putting in a mountain of work (well above any of their peers) and clearly sure to take those standards to AFL level - Jack Higgins being a key example of this from last year. They deserve all the credit in the world, as Jack has received from I imagine a lot of us who have been speaking about the draft, just to name one player from last years draft who has an incredible appetite for work and desire to get the most out of himself.

I don't know about throwing kids under the bus, it's just a little amateur personality profiling that might make a difference. I know many of my clubs most disappointing draftees had issues in the area. Just spitballing at the end of the day.

 

[RUNVS]

I don't know about throwing kids under the bus, it's just a little amateur personality profiling that might make a difference. I know many of my clubs most disappointing draftees had issues in the area. Just spitballing at the end of the day.

In some ways competitive instinct and personality are more important than raw talent. Brett Kirk's attitude in Ed Barlow's body probably would have been a Brownlow medal winner.

 

[Doro]

In some ways competitive instinct and personality are more important than raw talent. Brett Kirk's attitude in Ed Barlow's body probably would have been a Brownlow medal winner.

That was sort of my point. A lot of the explosion of draftee info focuses on the the on field qualities, inside/outside, decision making, kicking etc. The attitude/ drive info is not as widely circulated but just as important.

 

[RUNVS]

That was sort of my point. A lot of the explosion of draftee info focuses on the the on field qualities, inside/outside, decision making, kicking etc. The attitude/ drive info is not as widely circulated but just as important.

I wonder if the 2008 draft happened again, but in 2018, would Jack Watts still go number 1 in the draft, or would have talent identification evolved enough that Melbourne would now realise that Watts didn't quite have the hunger needed to really get the most out of his talent.