Tasmania Congratulations on Tassie License. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5

[Chief]

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GO TO PART 2 of this thread:

Tasmania - Tasmania Devils, welcome to the AFL. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Labor declares support for Stadium 6/5

Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/congratulations-on-tassie-license-mens-team-to-enter-2028-womens-team-tba-other-details-tba-3-5.1226653/ Was going to draft up a Summary but this is pretty good...

www.bigfooty.com

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[Johnny Bananas]

Hobart doesn't have a mass transit system, nor will get one in the next couple of decades. So a central location for a stadium isn't anywhere near as important.

Maybe it should get one. The Greens did propose rehabilitating the railway a decade ago, but then Tony Abbott got elected and any chance of federal funding disappeared because he hated public transport with a passion.

Funnily enough, that railway passes right next to KGV Oval. It could accommodate car traffic now and mass transit in the future.

They want people hitting up bars restaurants and hotels before and after games that wouldn’t happen so much with a stadium based in Glenorchy

There are bars and restaurants in Glenorchy though. And I maintain that if you put a stadium in an important suburban centre, (more) hospitality will spring up around it, if the government is willing to invest in surrounding infrastructure.

Perth Stadium is 5km from Perth CBD. It has SFA around it. The Gabba is a bus ride from the Brisbane CBD, Whats around Metricn? Whats around the SCG? Whats around the GWS Sydney Showgrounds?

Perth Stadium has a casino nearby. The Gabba has a heap of bars and restaurants around it. The SCG has the Entertainment Quarter next door and Paddington is less than a 10 minute walk away.

One of the reasons for the poor crowds at Carrara and the Showgrounds, in addition to them not being in traditional Aussie Rules areas, is that there is a severe lack of hospitality venues around them. They're not exactly an example to emulate.

 

[madmug]

Maybe it should get one. The Greens did propose rehabilitating the railway a decade ago, but then Tony Abbott got elected and any chance of federal funding disappeared because he hated public transport with a passion.

Funnily enough, that railway passes right next to KGV Oval. It could accommodate car traffic now and mass transit in the future.


There are bars and restaurants in Glenorchy though. And I maintain that if you put a stadium in an important suburban centre, (more) hospitality will spring up around it, if the government is willing to invest in surrounding infrastructure.


Perth Stadium has a casino nearby. The Gabba has a heap of bars and restaurants around it. The SCG has the Entertainment Quarter next door and Paddington is less than a 10 minute walk away.

One of the reasons for the poor crowds at Carrara and the Showgrounds, in addition to them not being in traditional Aussie Rules areas, is that there is a severe lack of hospitality venues around them. They're not exactly an example to emulate.

A KGV redevelopment would go a long way to justifying the reintroduction of rail transport again. Imagine having breakfast in Salamanca, short train ride to KGV, then back to the city for pubs, Casino. The reality though is that most people will go from home, to the game & back home again.

For Thursday/Sunday events people would just go home. Certainly Friday night, Saturday more people will look for other food & drink options, also the Hobart Casino. Being at KGV & with decent transport options, that would happen just the same as with MacPoint.

So a mass of people walk to the Perth Casino before & after games? Same in Sydney & Gabba? They don't. Some do but most wouldn't.

 

[madmug]

Quantify the benefits and compare them to the cost, which has the greater benefit to cost ratio? That is value for money.

Politicians do it all the time. Political cost/Political Benefit ratio is what it really is for Government. Actual economics is very much a secondary consideration.

 

[Bjo187]

a couple of years ago was mid covid pandemic. so what do you expect?

Gee sorry I should have used 'few' or 'a number of'. Thinking about it, it was actually 2017 coz Jobe Watson was playing for us. Got spanked at Adelaide oval.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

A KGV redevelopment would go a long way to justifying the reintroduction of rail transport again. Imagine having breakfast in Salamanca, short train ride to KGV, then back to the city for pubs, Casino. The reality though is that most people will go from home, to the game & back home again.

For Thursday/Sunday events people would just go home. Certainly Friday night, Saturday more people will look for other food & drink options, also the Hobart Casino. Being at KGV & with decent transport options, that would happen just the same as with MacPoint.

So a mass of people walk to the Perth Casino before & after games? Same in Sydney & Gabba? They don't. Some do but most wouldn't.

I wasn't suggesting most do, just that nearby hospitality increases the crowd levels, because more people will view it as a day out with food and drink with mates before or after, rather than something you just go to and come back from immediately, and that tends to convince more people to go to games.

Couldn't tell you about how it works in Perth and Sydney, but in Brisbane, yes, there are a lot of people who attend those hospitality venues before or after games. Most of them are absolutely packed out. Woolloongabba is not exactly the sticks, it's an increasingly dense inner suburb that is getting all the services and nightlife that come with a high local population.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Politicians do it all the time. Political cost/Political Benefit ratio is what it really is for Government. Actual economics is very much a secondary consideration.

Sure, but the economics can factor into political cost/benefit if that's something voters value in a particular situation. I think it's clear that a significant number of people in Tasmania would rather see money put into other services than on a stadium, and so reducing the costs of the stadium where possible could mollify some of them.

We should note that there has been a 7% drop in Tas Liberal primary vote in opinion polls since December 2021. It may not all be due to the stadium issue, but you'd have to say it's certainly one factor in voters' minds. That suggests it may be a political risk to the Liberals.

 

[Rob]

Maybe it should get one. The Greens did propose rehabilitating the railway a decade ago, but then Tony Abbott got elected and any chance of federal funding disappeared because he hated public transport with a passion.

Funnily enough, that railway passes right next to KGV Oval. It could accommodate car traffic now and mass transit in the future.

I suspect the Greens would also be manically opposed to the sort of living density that makes mass transit systems feasible.

Hobart would need to triple in size at a minimum before heavy rail becomes an option. You don't need to hate public transport to know that a city of 250k with an extremely low population density doesn't need intra city trains. Intercity maybe, but that's not going to move huge numbers of people to the football.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I suspect the Greens would also be manically opposed to the sort of living density that makes mass transit systems feasible.

First of all, let's clarify what that density is. Look at any of Australia's eight biggest cities and you'll see mass transit systems that are feasible even in areas that don't have many tall buildings at all. That tells you tall buildings aren't really necessary for mass transit to be feasible.

But let's say you don't consider those cities to be good examples of mass transit. Let's take what's considered one of the world's best cities for mass transit, Copenhagen. If you use Google Street View and drop in at various places in Copenhagen, you'll see that the majority of buildings will be in the range of 4-6 stories, with not many at all beyond that sort of range. Clearly, there's no need to go beyond this to have feasible mass transit system. It doesn't have to be Hong Kong.

I can only speak for mainland capital city Greens rather than the Tasmanian ones, but amongst them, you'll find most Greens are happy with buildings up to maybe 6-8 stories in important suburban centres, especially around train stations. What they tend to oppose is bigger developments than that outside of CBDs, and multi-storey development in places where there is a serious lack of infrastructure and services to accommodate them, like suburban streets well away from major centres. So I wouldn't say they would be manically opposed to what makes mass transit systems feasible.

It's also important for a politician to at least listen to communities about what they can accept around them, rather than dismissing any opposition as NIMBYism that should be ignored, or else it isn't very sensitive or democratic. Where is the line between NIMBYism and community democracy? That's a question I've struggled with several times. I don't believe in extremism on the issue.

Hobart would need to triple in size at a minimum before heavy rail becomes an option. You don't need to hate public transport to know that a city of 250k with an extremely low population density doesn't need intra city trains. Intercity maybe, but that's not going to move huge numbers of people to the football.

Would it? Geelong has trains. Newcastle has trains. Wollongong has trains.

Who said it had to be heavy rail, anyway? Light rail is perfectly feasible, as Canberra has demonstrated. It can even be a bus rapid transit system, similar to those in Brisbane, Adelaide and western Sydney.

 

[The_Wookie]

Victoria, WA, NT and Tasmania , football heartlands, are on track to break all-time community club records.

And, yes, people know we are flawed at times – and like everyone we don't get everything right - but we are aspiring to be better always.

And this is why Tasmania is important. Because to be truly national and truly representative Tasmania needs a team.

And – with the support of the clubs and the Commission – we need a stadium.

Like in Adelaide. Like in Perth. Like on the Gold Coast, the stadium would not only transform football but transform the city. And the state.

And because the deal - if we get there - will be good and because we can afford it and because as a code we make big decisions even if we know the execution is hard.

We would not be who we are if we avoided the challenges.

Mclachlan, Season Launch

AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan's speech at the 2023 premiership season launch

Read the full transcript of Gillon McLachlan's speech at Thursday night's season launch

www.afl.com.au

 

[pz5151]

Whenever I’ve left docklands, most of the ‘bars’ are closed or empty. It’s nowhere near wheat was spruiked when the precinct was being built

Non Melbourne people might not know crown is nowhere near docklands

Cos one half of the docklands precinct was bought by overseas Chinese and kept empty as an investment property and the other half was bought up by the Melbourne underworld as a place they can live with security cameras to avoid getting shot.

 

[HTPunter]

I’d really love a basic referendum tier poll on Tasmanians whether they want a team or not. I think football max people would be surprised at just how many DON’T want one. I spend every day in regional and rural Tasmania working with all sorts - haven’t yet come across anyone who wants it. Of course Hobart big wigs and the absolute footy mad guys want it, but people like Scott Wade and the Riewoldts (who should obviously get a huge say with all the time they spend in Tassie now) are not true representations

 

[peetoo]

Cos one half of the docklands precinct was bought by overseas Chinese and kept empty as an investment property and the other half was bought up by the Melbourne underworld as a place they can live with security cameras to avoid getting shot.

Thanks premier Jeff

 

[Walshawk]

I’d really love a basic referendum tier poll on Tasmanians whether they want a team or not. I think football max people would be surprised at just how many DON’T want one. I spend every day in regional and rural Tasmania working with all sorts - haven’t yet come across anyone who wants it. Of course Hobart big wigs and the absolute footy mad guys want it, but people like Scott Wade and the Riewoldts (who should obviously get a huge say with all the time they spend in Tassie now) are not true representations

Yes but ’most people’in Victoria don't want footy either. Afterall,less than 10% are club members, and only 5% go each week to games.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

This point only applies to training facilities, unless you're arguing Carrara wasn't up to standard when the Suns came into the competition, despite the state government sinking $126 million into it. Is it completely impossible for a similar amount of money (adjusted for inflation) to go into either Bellerive or KGV Oval and bring it up to AFL standard? It would be less than a quarter of the cost of Macquarie Point.

In doesn’t just apply to training facilities, it applies to all aspects of establishing a new club: home ground, staff, list + draft concessions etc. The blueprint for the Suns and Giants had many flaws. I want this Tassie club to be as successful as possible so if the end result of these hurdles is a stronger club from day dot then I’m okay with that.

The Suns and Giants provide lessons for the Tassie bid team + AFL but by no means should they be considered a benchmark. Carrara is a prime example of this. Decent facility for what is needed on the GC, although the location sucks. In the middle of nowhere, need buses to get you from the train station to the ground, no pubs or restaurants in the vicinity (only a golf course). It’s a very average place to travel to watch a footy game and this undoubtedly affects fan experiences and attendances. GWS also have some of these issues being stuck out at Homebush.

Establishing a stadium at Bellerive, KGV or some other second-rate suburban location will resign spectators in Tassie to an inferior experience, which is not an acceptable outcome in my book. Better off spending the extra cash and doing it properly from the start.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

A KGV redevelopment would go a long way to justifying the reintroduction of rail transport again. Imagine having breakfast in Salamanca, short train ride to KGV, then back to the city for pubs, Casino. The reality though is that most people will go from home, to the game & back home again.

For Thursday/Sunday events people would just go home. Certainly Friday night, Saturday more people will look for other food & drink options, also the Hobart Casino. Being at KGV & with decent transport options, that would happen just the same as with MacPoint.

So a mass of people walk to the Perth Casino before & after games? Same in Sydney & Gabba? They don't. Some do but most wouldn't.

The Gabba is surrounded by heaps of pubs and restaurants in the Woolloongabba, Kangaroo Point area. Even some microbreweries and nightclubs popping up in the Gabba area these days. These establishments are always chock full of patrons before and after games. There’s also a new underground train station being built directly across the road from the Gabba (with a concourse) that will be one stop from the CBD on Brisbane’s new cross river rail line.

 

[Rob]

First of all, let's clarify what that density is. Look at any of Australia's eight biggest cities and you'll see mass transit systems that are feasible even in areas that don't have many tall buildings at all. That tells you tall buildings aren't really necessary for mass transit to be feasible.

8 biggest? 5 biggest maybe (reasons explained below). But they're all cities that are many many times bigger than Hobart.

But let's say you don't consider those cities to be good examples of mass transit. Let's take what's considered one of the world's best cities for mass transit, Copenhagen. If you use Google Street View and drop in at various places in Copenhagen, you'll see that the majority of buildings will be in the range of 4-6 stories, with not many at all beyond that sort of range. Clearly, there's no need to go beyond this to have feasible mass transit system. It doesn't have to be Hong Kong.

I can only speak for mainland capital city Greens rather than the Tasmanian ones, but amongst them, you'll find most Greens are happy with buildings up to maybe 6-8 stories in important suburban centres, especially around train stations. What they tend to oppose is bigger developments than that outside of CBDs, and multi-storey development in places where there is a serious lack of infrastructure and services to accommodate them, like suburban streets well away from major centres. So I wouldn't say they would be manically opposed to what makes mass transit systems feasible.

And that's all fine, but the higher the density the more justifiable mass transit systems become. Otherwise you need to adapt. Obviously I live in Perth which has undergone a big rail expansion over the last couple of decades, but pretty much the whole system (the new part anyway) is based around people driving to a train station. It's effectively artificially creating density around train stations by getting people to park there. But Perth has nearly 10 times the people Hobart does, so it's a moot point.

It's also important for a politician to at least listen to communities about what they can accept around them, rather than dismissing any opposition as NIMBYism that should be ignored, or else it isn't very sensitive or democratic. Where is the line between NIMBYism and community democracy? That's a question I've struggled with several times. I don't believe in extremism on the issue.


Would it? Geelong has trains. Newcastle has trains. Wollongong has trains.

They all have spur lines from much larger cities and mostly intercity rail, not their own local network. I'm sure Hobart would have good rail service too if Launceston had 4 million people. Course it would be people travelling mostly between the 2 cities. I did acknowledge that a Hobart to Lonny service might be worth investigating, but that's not going to bring 10k people to the footy.

Who said it had to be heavy rail, anyway? Light rail is perfectly feasible, as Canberra has demonstrated. It can even be a bus rapid transit system, similar to those in Brisbane, Adelaide and western Sydney.

Light rail might be feasible, but it doesn't move as many people as heavy rail. Not even close. Maybe in a few decades you might see it in Hobart. Hard to know if it works in Canberra, it's only just been built.

Buses don't move enough people. Carrara has shown the futility of a transport policy based around buses, and I believe now they've opened carparks around the venue to get people to go.

 

[madmug]

The Gabba is surrounded by heaps of pubs and restaurants in the Woolloongabba, Kangaroo Point area. Even some microbreweries and nightclubs popping up in the Gabba area these days. These establishments are always chock full of patrons before and after games. There’s also a new underground train station being built directly across the road from the Gabba (with a concourse) that will be one stop from the CBD on Brisbane’s new cross river rail line.

The 'Gabba was first used in 1895. The Bears then Lions took up residence in the mid 1990's. The best thing around the Gabba when I first went there in the around 1980, was the old Pineapple Hotel!!

I think if KGV had been the current focus of a redevelopment for AFL & other events, then the transport & better local pubs would also develop, probably quicker than around the Gabba, at least one would hope so.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

The 'Gabba was first used in 1895. The Bears then Lions took up residence in the mid 1990's. The best thing around the Gabba when I first went there in the around 1980, was the old Pineapple Hotel!!

I think if KGV had been the current focus of a redevelopment for AFL & other events, then the transport & better local pubs would also develop, probably quicker than around the Gabba, at least one would hope so.

Now there are at least 10 pubs in the surrounding streets + heaps of restaurants. There’s no use in comparing stadium infrastructure and amenities from years gone by to contemporary norms. At the end of the day, Glenorchy is still Glenorchy - most people aren’t going to want to hang out there before and after games.

Like I said previously, over the next few years (when the new train line is opened) people will be able to get a train from the city to the Gabba in a couple of minutes. It will literally be quicker to get there than it will be to walk from Salamanca to Mac Point, so even though the Gabba is located outside of the CBD, it will soon be easily accessible for spectators.

Recent comments from politicians up here have acknowledged that the Gabba is now extremely dated compared to what exists in other states and they’re literally spending billions to rebuild the stadium and the precinct surrounding it. I know the Olympics is a major factor in this, but they were putting the new train line in well before the Games were announced.

 

[Jazny]

Gill still talking positively about Tasmania is good news. Now they have all switched to the "sports and entertainment precinct" whenever they talk about the stadium, it sounds like that is how the Labor government will try and justify the 240 million dollar spend. Will we get some big news before Gill's retirement date of round 5?

 

[Our Game]

I fully expect the May Albanese govt budget will stump up the money to build the stadium and that the deal as already been done and that also is when Gill will step down.

 

[TheTassieHawk]

Gill still talking positively about Tasmania is good news. Now they have all switched to the "sports and entertainment precinct" whenever they talk about the stadium, it sounds like that is how the Labor government will try and justify the 240 million dollar spend. Will we get some big news before Gill's retirement date of round 5?

It was reported yesterday that a Round 5 departure could push back until after the license and CBA are both finalised.

 

[madmug]

Now there are at least 10 pubs in the surrounding streets + heaps of restaurants. There’s no use in comparing stadium infrastructure and amenities from years gone by to contemporary norms. At the end of the day, Glenorchy is still Glenorchy - most people aren’t going to want to hang out there before and after games.

Like I said previously, over the next few years (when the new train line is opened) people will be able to get a train from the city to the Gabba in a couple of minutes. It will literally be quicker to get there than it will be to walk from Salamanca to Mac Point, so even though the Gabba is located outside of the CBD, it will soon be easily accessible for spectators.

Recent comments from politicians up here have acknowledged that the Gabba is now extremely dated compared to what exists in other states and they’re literally spending billions to rebuild the stadium and the precinct surrounding it. I know the Olympics is a major factor in this, but they were putting the new train line in well before the Games were announced.

My point was about the fact things change. Things around the Gabba changed slowly, very slowly in fact.

Things around KGV could/would've changed quick quickly if it was to be the stadium.

A quick rail trip to the city, some pub & eatery upgrades in the CBD. Indeed the close by pub, The Paddy Wagon. is a good sports bar set up now. Good pub food too. The Club Hotel is reasonable, the Old Elwick Hotel needs a bomb put through it, or at least a lot of paint.

Its all rather moot point now anyway.

 

[My_Username]

It was reported yesterday that a Round 5 departure could push back until after the license and CBA are both finalised.

I think this is trying to get the public to put pressure on the government.

"Give them the money or the bastard will never leave!". That will get AFL fans all around the country writing to their MPs.

It's a clear case of blackmail.

 

[smasha]

I would like to see this new team in red and green hoops.

It would entice Irish players to come over in conditions the closest to Ireland in Australia.

Plus the team needs all the players they can get.

 

[Jazny]

I would like to see this new team in red and green hoops.

It would entice Irish players to come over in conditions the closest to Ireland in Australia.

Plus the team needs all the players they can get.

That would look really ugly.