List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

Whose future picks would you have preferred?

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Trade period
In: 12, F1, F2, F3, 73, Baker, Owies, Graham*
Out: 3, 63, F4, Barrass, Darling

*Free agent

Done deals

  • Jai Culley, Alex Witherden and Coby Burgiel delisted






  • Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones and Jordyn Baker delisted

 
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sey666 said:
The recruiting team (Matt Clarke in particular) should have learned the power stance from Pike before the trade period. They wouldn’t have blinked in the Baker trade then.

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I reckon you could be god himself (Quinten Lynch ft throwing glove) and you'd still look like a knob doing the "power" stance.
 
stallon said:
This right here is the best point in our favour, but its also shit that this is a thing.

I just hope Clarke knows this and sticks to the 2x firsts
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HoneyBadger35 said:
This is the fear. We've gotten better, albeit without getting anywhere near maximum value from the assets.

Have we gotten better enough to avoid the St Kilda and Essendon tier of perpetually pushing to be relevant but never actually anywhere near a legitimate threat.

I keep coming back to 19 kids aged 21 and under on the list. Natural improvement in them, in a new game plan? The boys of the list is there, Who knows, maybe? But the plateau looks very ominous.
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I don't know how people are saying we have gotten better from this trade. The fact is we would have gotten Graham as a free agent regardless. We could have traded a 3rd or 4th rounder for Owies. We could have traded to bring in Luke Parker with a pick closer to 40, or even Fiorini for something similar. Yes Parker is older than Baker and Fiorini is not as good a player but either paired with pick 3 would be equally likely to have improved us in the short term than Baker on his own. For us to suddenly improve on the back of one player they need to be a Judd type, otherwise any improvement must be driven by many and Baker is not the magical seed that is the difference between competitive and non competitive.

Yes we obviously didn't have the relationship with Parker or Fiorini or players of that ilk but given our list position why didn't we target similar players that would cost us far less draft capital than Baker types. Why aren't Richmond for example targetting Kennedy types...maybe the cost is not right given their current state
 

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thebutterflyeffect said:
I don't know how people are saying we have gotten better from this trade. The fact is we would have gotten Graham as a free agent regardless. We could have traded a 3rd or 4th rounder for Owies. We could have traded to bring in Luke Parker with a pick closer to 40, or even Fiorini for something similar. Yes Parker is older than Baker and Fiorini is not as good a player but either paired with pick 3 would be equally likely to have improved us in the short term than Baker on his own. For us to suddenly improve on the back of one player they need to be a Judd type, otherwise any improvement must be driven by many and Baker is not the magical seed that is the difference between competitive and non competitive.

Yes we obviously didn't have the relationship with Parker or Fiorini or players of that ilk but given our list position why didn't we target similar players that would cost us far less draft capital than Baker types. Why aren't Richmond for example targetting Kennedy types...maybe the cost is not right given their current state
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You need to keep in mind, for the vast majority of people, WA is not a destination city unless they are either from here or have a link to here, IE family (Ashton Moir for example, we could try and play the family card despite him being from SA down the track) or partner origins.

Luke Parker is from Dandenong originally, so getting to a Victorian side is normal.
Jack Graham was dependent on best mate Liam Baker coming over here. Owies had to leave his home to get a game.

It's okay to question the motive and price, but lets call a spade a spade, we can't go after every free agent - it's a hard sell every time.
 
Keys said:
View attachment 2143338

Time to have a crack at this

For the purpose of this analysis I’m going to assume we get a F1 and F2 for Barrass with nothing going back which I think is the minimum we should accept

On that basis, I’m breaking down our trade period as follows :

• Barrass for Baker and Graham - pick 14 was destined to link Baker and TB albeit it happened indirectly. Graham was a FA but he doesn’t commit without an assurance Baker is also coming.
• Pick 3 for 12, F1, F2 - in an even draft the slide from 3 to 12 is less significant than usual. If we pick right the F1 might be a top 10 pick but realistically it’ll sit in the 13-16 range putting the F2 in the low 30’s.
• Darling and 63 for Owies and 73 - Darling was cooked for us whereas Owies can help fill the void created by a declining Cripps whilst Long, Dewar and Brockman develop

There’s two main issues with what we’ve done :
1) Whilst it is an even draft the odds of getting a star at 12 are less than they’d be at 3. We’re relying on a slider that other clubs see an issue with or landing a Cripps style bolter. After years of not having access to a top 5 pick until 2022 it’s a significant risk
2) Was Baker really worth 14? Well, yes. And no. He’s the type of player you trade for to fill a hole when you’re a contender so he’d make sense for Fremantle. For a rebuilding side like us pick 14 is more valuable on a draftee even though Baker improves our best 22 from the moment he walks in the door. Adding players in the 23-27 age bracket was needed but we should’ve been more focused on Garcia/Robertson types than Baker. Whatever the arguments, the club felt he was worth 14 though. Time will tell


Other notes :
• People panicking about missing out on Champion need to chill the **** out. In all likelihood a bid won’t come until around pick 45 or later meaning we need at most 150 points to match if it’s pick 45. By that point the pick 73 we have will have come in to about 63 (112 points) but we also have pick 81 which would be about pick 70 (39 points) and abracadabra we have the points to match. If a bid comes later than 45, that pick 81 will come in far enough that we can use it to pluck someone with a pick in the 60’s once clubs start passing
• Owies cost us SFA so whilst we may or may not have been able to get him as a DFA it’s pretty irrelevant as he was a genuine steak knife as part of meaningless late pick swaps.
• Also Owies wasn’t the piece that turned the 3 for 12 and 14 from a no to a go. Rather it was the absence of any better offer for pick 3 than what we got. We spent an entire weekend shopping pick 3 around trying to find a path to get something we could satisfy Richmond with for Baker whilst retaining a R1 pick. Clubs either weren’t willing to give up 2 picks for 3 or didn’t have anything worthwhile
• Baker wasn’t a PSD option
• Hawthorn ****ed us by trading 14 but we are partly responsible. We don’t know what exactly was offered - it might have been 14 and F2 but that was with our F3 going back. Or it might’ve been just a F3 with 14. Either way both offers were unders. Our mistake, or specifically Clarke’s mistake, was not staying engaged with Hawthorn to improve their offer - pantskyle suggested Clarke broke off contact with Hawthorn for 2 days which is consistent with a post by Big_Birdy a while back that some player managers were getting frustrated with his tendency of not replying to phone calls. It’s a problem for a list manager that, if true, needs to be rectified post haste
• I think we’d have accepted 14 and F2. Had we done so and traded 14 for Baker we’d now have 3,26 and Hawthorn's F2 - instead we have 12,26 and F1+F2 tied to either Hawthorn or Carlton. If we’re lucky maybe a bit more from Hawthorn- another F2 for our F3 or another F1 for our F2
• We may be able to get an extra pick in this draft by trading the F1 we get from Hawthorn- Sydney with pick 19 (or 22) looms as an option. That would be a handy addition to our draft hand

In summary, I don’t particularly like the trade as I’d rather still have pick 3 and not paid as much for Baker. I’ve vented my frustrations both on here and twitter but on reflection it isn’t quite as catastrophic as I first thought and it isn’t setting our rebuild back years as some are suggesting

We got blindsided by Hawthorn’s recklessness and then had to scramble to recover our position as best we could which included honouring an undertaking to secure a trade for Baker (regardless of whether that undertaking was paying overs - player managers will note we fulfilled our commitment which will be important next time we’re trying to encourage a player to come west)

/Lipstick application
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Excellent summary

The apparent commitment of a pick we didn't have (that was too high) for Baker was what screwed us. Absolutely bizarre behaviour and I read that completely wrong because I genuinely didn't believe a list manager could be that stupid

How he plays this Barrass deal will be at least some entertainment for the day
 
Mop said:
You need to keep in mind, for the vast majority of people, WA is not a destination city unless they are either from here or have a link to here, IE family (Ashton Moir for example, we could try and play the family card despite him being from SA down the track) or partner origins.

Luke Parker is from Dandenong originally, so getting to a Victorian side is normal.
Jack Graham was dependent on best mate Liam Baker coming over here. Owies had to leave his home to get a game.

It's okay to question the motive and price, but lets call a spade a spade, we can't go after every free agent - it's a hard sell every time.
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Agree but money talks. How did we pick up Redden or Hunt. Hell Jack Graham has no connections to Perth.

You've just got to question why we are targeting players like Baker. Yes if this was 2018 or even a couple of years from now you can overpay (draft capital) to get players. Even the TK deal you could understand. This is baffling and there must have been other options
 
thebutterflyeffect said:
I don't know how people are saying we have gotten better from this trade. The fact is we would have gotten Graham as a free agent regardless. We could have traded a 3rd or 4th rounder for Owies. We could have traded to bring in Luke Parker with a pick closer to 40, or even Fiorini for something similar. Yes Parker is older than Baker and Fiorini is not as good a player but either paired with pick 3 would be equally likely to have improved us in the short term than Baker on his own. For us to suddenly improve on the back of one player they need to be a Judd type, otherwise any improvement must be driven by many and Baker is not the magical seed that is the difference between competitive and non competitive.

Yes we obviously didn't have the relationship with Parker or Fiorini or players of that ilk but given our list position why didn't we target similar players that would cost us far less draft capital than Baker types. Why aren't Richmond for example targetting Kennedy types...maybe the cost is not right given their current state
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We saw Brisbane get hodge as an example. Even west coast in days of sanity took the North Melbourne guy, and Mitchell. If the onfield leadership and training standards was so important, noting that this is what pyke cited, then as you say, there were much cheaper options.

This is the second time wce has got a player at all costs as they made these "promises" and again its blown up in everyone's face. This disaster did not need to happen.

We all saw it coming a mile off when Clarke starting dropping hints.

Governance and decision making is a worry at wce now. The board needs to make a statement on all of this as pyke is in lala land.
 
MerryHell said:
Consider hawks very smart trading.

They cashed in on carltons desperation for pick 3, landing the extra F2.

If they pay up F1 and F2 for tommy, they’ve paid with carltons F2.
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F1 + F2 for TB is worse than their original offer (14, which they traded for F1 + F2, and their F2 for our F3).

As a team we really should have no qualms keeping TB. 3 year contract, vice captain, clearly B22. Make it known in the media this morning (similar to Smith and the ND threat, and Richmond saying we promised a mid teens pick for Baker via their media mouthpieces).

Ideally 2x F1… likely something (our F2) going back.

Or F1 + 2x F2 (if we send back our F3 that is the same as the original offer)

Any less, we should just keep him. He may not be that happy returning but it’s up to him via management to push the hawks if that is the case


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
thebutterflyeffect said:
Agree but money talks. How did we pick up Redden or Hunt. Hell Jack Graham has no connections to Perth.

You've just got to question why we are targeting players like Baker. Yes if this was 2018 or even a couple of years from now you can overpay (draft capital) to get players. Even the TK deal you could understand. This is baffling and there must have been other options
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Jack Graham came because Baker was coming with the link of McQualter.

Some people are just up for the adventure, and there's no reason we can't try and get those outside the profile - but we need to accept that, based on geography, we can't just get anyone we want. Some just have no desire or reason to, even if the salary permitted it.

Baker sure isn't our core need, an undersized flanker, but he is a good player well above what we have now to call from. I have no issue with taking Liam Baker at all, it's just the price and context that irks me.
 
Good that some of you are moving on, I am still in disbelief. I can completely see how Owies and Baker help our side, its just that price.. so odd, so very very odd Pyke.

Why couldn't we even get back something small like swapping our pick 26 for Richmond's 20 in that trade. I simply don't understand which is the hardest part.

Be better today WC for **** sake.
 

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Notmuchofanexpert said:
Good that some of you are moving on, I am still in disbelief. I can completely see how Owies and Baker help our side, its just that price.. so odd, so very very odd Pyke.

Why couldn't we even get back something small like swapping our pick 26 for Richmond's 20 in that trade. I simply don't understand which is the hardest part.

Be better today WC for **** sake.
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The pain has move from sharp vomit inducing punch the wall in frustration type pain

to PTSD shivers down my spine , rocking in the foetal position when I hear the word trade week type pain

Still can't believe we did it downloadfile.gif
 
amazingjoshy said:
Excellent summary

The apparent commitment of a pick we didn't have (that was too high) for Baker was what screwed us. Absolutely bizarre behaviour and I read that completely wrong because I genuinely didn't believe a list manager could be that stupid

How he plays this Barrass deal will be at least some entertainment for the day
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Yep it's not over yet. Could be a surprize sting to it all yet. People surmise that the future 1sts from the TB deal are for Warner. It may not be so. We could use those 2 future firsts to get back into an early draft pick, or to swoop on the debris if either Boltan or Rioli deals collapse. Richmond have too many early picks - they would be better trading one of those early picks, say pick 8 or somesuch. for 2 future firsts. I don't think our hand is fully revealed yet.
 
Broken_Chairs said:
I've melted hard over today's deal, but have also accepted that it's value can only be assessed once the TB situation is sorted.

If we can trade TB for a top 10 pick or 2x F1 them I'm pretty happy overall.

If we piss the bed with that though... I'm going to have some wet ****ing pants
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Prepare to piss thru ur butthole
 
amazingjoshy said:
Gee I thought Pykes interview to justify our trade was bad

Davies from Ports interview just in Trade Radio was close to a train wreck
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Kinda goes to show, non vic clubs are having a real hard time atm convincing players to either stay, or come over.

Even Port who are in grand final contention are struggling. The justification re Atkins was pretty much the same as ours in relation to Owies
 
Broken_Chairs said:
I've melted hard over today's deal, but have also accepted that it's value can only be assessed once the TB situation is sorted.

If we can trade TB for a top 10 pick or 2x F1 them I'm pretty happy overall.

If we piss the bed with that though... I'm going to have some wet ****ing pants
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Real tough to trade Barras out and a top 10 pick in, inside the last day. We’ll be paying a huge premium for a top 10 pick
 
Okay lets compare the pair

Eagles say we need more players in the 25-29 age bracket to lead the team. We also say we are rebuilding and need to hit the draft

Hawthorn say we need to top up and trade away our draft hand so we can push for the flag.

Round 1 both teams will likely be below. Ill highight those under the age of 25

FB: Hunt, Hedwards, Hough
HB : GInbey, McGovern, Duggan
C: Baker, Yeo, Cole
HF: Ryan, Allen, Hutchison
FF: Owies, Waterman, J.Williams
R: Flynn, Kelly, Reid
I/C: Graham, B.Williams, Long, Hewett

4 over the age of 30
11 over the age of 25-29 (this is the gap we filled)
7 under the age of 25


FB: Scrimshaw, Barrass, Sicily
HB: Amon, Battle, Hardwick
C: Dambrosio, Day, Nash
HF: Moore, Gunston, Macdonald
FF: Watson, Chol, Ginnivan
R: Meek, Newcombe, Worpel
I/C: MacKenzie, Weddle, Dear, Impey

2 over the age or 30
11 between 25-29
9 under the age of 25

The team who is gunning for the flag has a much younger Round 1 team then us and also vastly less experience in the 25 and under age bracket too. Its absurd . If you look at that 25-29 age bracket we are desperately missing also according to Pyke and co we have more then most too and are the much more experienced team overall.... not just for Hawthorn but a ton of other teams too. Even Sydneys team has 8 players under 25 in its best 22...

Just look at the U25 players in the Round 1 side too. Hawks talent is better. Heck lets look at Sydney and Brisbane with better u25s playing Round 1 then us...

Sydney have - Gulden, Warner, Roberts, McDonald, McInerney, Jordon, Rowbottom, Campnbell
Brisbane have - L.Ashcroft, W.Ashcroft, Fletcher, Lohman, Morris, Wilmot, Coleman
WCE have - Reid, Ginbey, Hough, J.Williams, Long, Hutchison, Hewett

We are just way off :(

Just played in the grand final and both have us covered
 
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Slash136 said:
Never seen so much hate from Eagles fans for the club. It's like this has been this tipping point for 3.5 terrible years and the fans have said enough.
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Thats what i was explaining to my colleagues yesterday.

Its not this decision in isolation. Its on the back of a number of huge errors made by the club the last 4 years.

We've just had enough.
 
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