Corona virus, Port and the AFL.

[GremioPower]

I don't get the hate against hydroxychloroquine besides Trump being excited about it. There's a disparate group of Dr's across the world all who are using it and claiming great success without any mass deaths from heart failure from using it. I don't think at this point you could say remdesivir is the front runner when there's more evidence that hydroxychloroquine is more effective and it's also dirt cheap, old, approved everywhere and all effects well known. At this point if it looks like it's working then it should be used if it is saving lives.

That's what got our Health Minister out: President wants to bet heavily on chloroquine; the Minister thought it shouldn't be public policy. Doctors are free to prescribe it, though.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-52296196

She survived Spanish Flu, Great Depression WWII (technically WWI as well), so no Covid-19 is going to stop her.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

That's what got our Health Minister out: President wants to bet heavily on chloroquine; the Minister thought it shouldn't be public policy. Doctors are free to prescribe it, though.

You told me Brazil are big manufacturers of Hydroxychloroquine, so has it been promoted, heavily discussed, trialled, feedback etc? ie what's the state of play in Brazil around it?

 

[bomberclifford]

Here's a thought experiment. China had a previous coronavirus outbreak with SARS yet didn't see fit to cover it up or send false data to the WHO and world governments but they did with COVID-19.

Now what is the more likely reason for that cover-up - patient zero contracting the virus from a wet market or patient zero contracting the virus from working at a research lab studying coronaviruses that has poor physical containment protocols and insufficiently trained staff?

It's an interesting thought experiment, and yes it's compelling, but it's still only conjecture.

 

[GremioPower]

You told me Brazil are big manufacturers of Hydroxychloroquine, so has it been promoted, heavily discussed, trialled, feedback etc? ie what's the state of play in Brazil around it?

I believe that the new Minister will promote an all-in bet on cloriquine.

The Supreme Court has ruled yesterday that the president cannot lift the restrictions, only impose them. If he doesn't, than the matter passes to the states; and so on.

However, if cloriquine becomes public policy, the states may feel tempted to ease the restrictions and follow the bet. Then, it will be a matter of whether cloriquine actually works (i.e., if avoids the collapse of the ICU system by recovering patients).

We will know the answer probably sooner than later.

 

[bomberclifford]

Doesn't sound like it would be an open shut case in court. Weight of evidence not enough to inspire confidence or certainty.

What's court got to do with it?

This is a fluid situation and at the moment, the evidence points to the Huanan Seafood Market being the most likely source of the virus transferring to humans. The evidence of this is the majority of the initial cases (over 65%) had direct exposure to the market.

If new evidence is found to support the lab theory which shifts the weight of evidence to that being the most likely source, then so be it.

At the moment, the evidence for the lab theory seems to be:

1. There is a Lab in Wuhan (approx 25km from the wet markets)
2. The type of bats the virus came from are not native to Wuhan (neither are Pangolians)
3. The Wuhan lab had these bats in captivity for testing (unsourced and uncredited)
4. China is 'covering stuff up'. (unspecified and ambiguous)

The issues with these points are they are circumstantial at best.

 

[Jason K]

I read his post as the ABC guy dismissing it and saying the only viable treatment being the other drug. Not that REH hates it but there's been a massive media beat up to dump on the drug and prove it is shite since Trump mentioned it. One hopes he doesn't speak aloud about other possible drugs or we will hear no end how shit they are too when we all just want to know everythings being tried with an open mind.

It's also not that drug on its own it only has been effective as a combination therapy.

The correction is to get Ardern to promote it. Her angelic god like being trumps Trumps evilness

 

[edgie]

What's court got to do with it?

This is a fluid situation and at the moment, the evidence points to the Huanan Seafood Market being the most likely source of the virus transferring to humans. The evidence of this is the majority of the initial cases (over 65%) had direct exposure to the market.

If new evidence is found to support the lab theory which shifts the weight of evidence to that being the most likely source, then so be it.

At the moment, the evidence for the lab theory seems to be:

1. There is a Lab in Wuhan (approx 25km from the wet markets)
2. The type of bats the virus came from are not native to Wuhan (neither are Pangolians)
3. The Wuhan lab had these bats in captivity for testing (unsourced and uncredited)
4. China is 'covering stuff up'. (unspecified and ambiguous)

The issues with these points are they are circumstantial at best.

The point is is nothing yet sounds like hard concrete evidence to inspire certainty and confidence so I don't think suggestions of other origins should be treated as wild conspiracies. Also claiming that there's no sources that would incriminate China really just undermines itself, doesn't it? Like China would let that out.

 

[Magus]

The issues with these points are they are circumstantial at best.

Wouldnt this be considered circumstantial?

Market being the most likely source of the virus transferring to humans. The evidence of this is the majority of the initial cases (over 65%) had direct exposure to the market.

 

[LFC2010]

Sam Newman losing it cause he can't play golf

 

[edgie]

I mean, the weight of evidence would suggest Carol murdered her husband, but not enough evidence to file a charge.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Link I posted earlier in video form:

Brett Baier, along with Brit Hume and maybe Chris Wallace are the straight guys at Fox compared to hosts of BS opinion programs, so I take note of what he is reporting.

But the way he said things, its sound contradictory. I will quote in reverse order.

At 34 second mark he says "It was believed that the virus was bat to human and then human to human and Patient Zero, worked at the lab went into the population of Wuhan and the virus quickly spread from there."

At 19 second mark he says "But there is a growing belief that the Covid-19 virus originated in the Wuhan Lab not as a bio weapon but as China's effort to find and deal with viruses, to show the world that China was as good or better than US on that front..."

Now call me thick, but what or who is the real Patient Zero?

The person who the bat bit or the person that ate the bat?? ie is the person involved with the bat, is the true Patient Zero? Then that human transfers it it to another human.

So is the lab worker the person dealing with the bat? Or is he/she the first human to deal with the human who dealt with the bat?

Did they set up to see if a bat could infect a human in a "controlled" lab experiment??

Or did a person get bitten by a bat or the person ate the bat, got sick, was quarantined, they took his/her blood took it to the lab to test and the Lab worker got infected without knowing it and then spread it to the general population?

Something just isn't right in the way this has been reported.

 

[NEGAN]

I read his post as the ABC guy dismissing it and saying the only viable treatment being the other drug. Not that REH hates it but there's been a massive media beat up to dump on the drug and prove it is shite since Trump mentioned it. One hopes he doesn't speak aloud about other possible drugs or we will hear no end how shit they are too when we all just want to know everythings being tried with an open mind.

It's also not that drug on its own it only has been effective as a combination therapy.

I wasn't having a go at REH....he researches his shit...

But you know whatever Trump is doing it will get done over with a fine tooth comb and scrutinised to the enth degree....

But a guy in white lab coat promoted by Sco Mo with a cure for covid will have some people busting a nut trying to find a vein in their eyeball.

 

[El Zorro]

Just catching up with this thread. Makes me think that letting the virus run its course and kill half the population isn't such a bad idea. The problem is which half though...

 

[simba_]

Just catching up with this thread. Makes me think that letting the virus run its course and kill half the population isn't such a bad idea. The problem is which half though...

ok bill gates' son........

 

[Magus]

"What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic."

It goes on:


There are similar concerns about the nearby Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention lab, which operates at biosecurity level 2, a level significantly less secure than the level-4 standard claimed by the Wuhan Insititute of Virology lab, Xiao said. That’s important because the Chinese government still refuses to answer basic questions about the origin of the novel coronavirus while suppressing any attempts to examine whether either lab was involved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

I don't know why you guys are treating this like a crazy conspiracy theory. You'd almost have to have a weird bias to not consider the possibility.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

She survived Spanish Flu, Great Depression WWII (technically WWI as well), so no Covid-19 is going to stop her.

Not to mention living in Birmingham

 

[Lagooner]

1. There is a Lab in Wuhan (approx 25km from the wet markets)
2. The type of bats the virus came from are not native to Wuhan (neither are Pangolians)
3. The Wuhan lab had these bats in captivity for testing (unsourced and uncredited)
4. China is 'covering stuff up'. (unspecified and ambiguous)

Pansexual Mongolians?

 

[El Zorro]

What's court got to do with it?

This is a fluid situation and at the moment, the evidence points to the Huanan Seafood Market being the most likely source of the virus transferring to humans. The evidence of this is the majority of the initial cases (over 65%) had direct exposure to the market.

If new evidence is found to support the lab theory which shifts the weight of evidence to that being the most likely source, then so be it.

At the moment, the evidence for the lab theory seems to be:

1. There is a Lab in Wuhan (approx 25km from the wet markets)
2. The type of bats the virus came from are not native to Wuhan (neither are Pangolians)
3. The Wuhan lab had these bats in captivity for testing (unsourced and uncredited)
4. China is 'covering stuff up'. (unspecified and ambiguous)

The issues with these points are they are circumstantial at best.

Very tempted to change my name to "The Pangolian".

 

[Forzaport]

Now call me thick, but what or who is the real Patient Zero?

The person who the bat bit or the person that ate the bat?? ie is the person involved with the bat, is the true Patient Zero? Then that human transfers it it to another human.

So is the lab worker the person dealing with the bat? Or is he/she the first human to deal with the human who dealt with the bat?

Patient zero is the first human to contract the virus from an animal.

Did they set up to see if a bat could infect a human in a "controlled" lab experiment??

Or did a person get bitten by a bat or the person ate the bat, got sick, was quarantined, they took his/her blood took it to the lab to test and the Lab worker got infected without knowing it and then spread it to the general population?

There probably 2 main ways it can happen in a lab environment:
1) There's an animal house with live bats and one of the bats bites a lab technician
2) Virus that has been isolated from the bat breached physical containment, becomes airborne and some unfortunate soul breathes it in. As the belief is that the virus is a 'natural' source it's unlikely that the virus that infected the first human had any biochemical alterations beyond being isolated (which I think is what happens with most viruses at these sort of labs, it's like a Chinese CDC isn't it?).

Something just isn't right in the way this has been reported.

There's been some low grade rumours about a Chinese lab being the source of the outbreak from the beginning but this exclusive is the first major break in the story and as you point out it has come from the News side of Fox, not Opinion. At this point in time there's just too little information - normally by now, with viral outbreaks the public is much more informed. An infectious disease lab losing containment, the government covering it up, lying to the WHO and ****ing over the rest of the planet seems to hold water. I'll follow this story just out of personal interest to see if anything contradictory comes up.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Patient zero is the first human to contract the virus from an animal.



There probably 2 main ways it can happen in a lab environment:
1) There's an animal house with live bats and one of the bats bites a lab technician
2) Virus that has been isolated from the bat breached physical containment, becomes airborne and some unfortunate soul breathes it in. As the belief is that the virus is a 'natural' source it's unlikely that the virus that infected the first human had any biochemical alterations beyond being isolated (which I think is what happens with most viruses at these sort of labs, it's like a Chinese CDC isn't it?).



There's been some low grade rumours about a Chinese lab being the source of the outbreak from the beginning but this exclusive is the first major break in the story and as you point out it has come from the News side of Fox, not Opinion. At this point in time there's just too little information - normally by now, with viral outbreaks the public is much more informed. An infectious disease lab losing containment, the government covering it up, lying to the WHO and ******* over the rest of the planet seems to hold water. I'll follow this story just out of personal interest to see if anything contradictory comes up.

Ok so the Lab has live bats in it. I understand that bit now.

How then do they expect to do tests on it? The Washington Post article says - Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats.

So how do they do tests?? Is it by taking blood? Do they want bats to bite humans and then test humans?? Or is the risky bit having live bats in a so called secure site as opposed to dead bats to draw blood from?

 

[Magus]

Ok so the Lab has live bats in it. I understand that bit now.

How then do they expect to do tests on it? The Washington Post article says - Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats.

So how do they do tests?? Is it by taking blood? Do they want bats to bite humans and then test humans?? Or is the risky bit having live bats in a so called secure site as opposed to dead bats to draw blood from?

They wouldn't have bats biting people on purpose, that's craziness.

It could be as simple as taking blood or urine from the animal and then getting it on themself.

 

[NEGAN]

Patient zero is the first human to contract the virus from an animal.



There probably 2 main ways it can happen in a lab environment:
1) There's an animal house with live bats and one of the bats bites a lab technician
2) Virus that has been isolated from the bat breached physical containment, becomes airborne and some unfortunate soul breathes it in. As the belief is that the virus is a 'natural' source it's unlikely that the virus that infected the first human had any biochemical alterations beyond being isolated (which I think is what happens with most viruses at these sort of labs, it's like a Chinese CDC isn't it?).



There's been some low grade rumours about a Chinese lab being the source of the outbreak from the beginning but this exclusive is the first major break in the story and as you point out it has come from the News side of Fox, not Opinion. At this point in time there's just too little information - normally by now, with viral outbreaks the public is much more informed. An infectious disease lab losing containment, the government covering it up, lying to the WHO and ******* over the rest of the planet seems to hold water. I'll follow this story just out of personal interest to see if anything contradictory comes up.

The only way this is going to come out is if China admit to it...

I agree with you it's a serious possibility but officially/ unofficially it came out under natural circumstances.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

They wouldn't have bats biting people on purpose, that's craziness.

It could be as simple as taking blood or urine from the animal and then getting it on themself.

Don't those Level 4 international bioresearch labs have people wearing hazmat suits full time? That's what I see every time I have seen the CSIRO Lab in Geelong for the last 30 years, that changed its name because people used to pronounce the old acronym as Anal

Australian Centre for Disease Preparedness - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The Australian Centre for Disease Preparedness (ACDP), formerly known as the Australian Animal Health Laboratory (AAHL), in Geelong, Victoria, Australia is a high security laboratory, run by the CSIRO for exotic animal disease diagnosis and research. The lab is one of four Biosafety Level-4 labs in the country."

That's why I said something just isn't right in the way the reporting of the story. Not that it is dodgy but that the full facts haven't been explained as there was holes that didn't make it logical.

Ok found the video of CSIRO in Geelong- I thought this is how all these level 4 labs around the world are set up.

 

[Burningleviathan]

Is there any actual evidence at all that it came from a lab or that patient zero got it at the lab?
Any evidence of a virus cluster early on at the lab?
Any evidence at all?
Other than the fact there is a lab there?