Cousins 2005 or Gablett 2009?

[goldcoastfc]

To Tin Can Sam, Cousins had Kerr and Judd as inside players.

He had 391 kicks and 221 handballs that year, plus 149 inside 50s (more than any player from 2009) and kicked 24 goals. Ablett had less than 300 kicks this year and only 67 inside 50s. Personally I thought he was more valuable in other years.

And also you need to remember that West Coast in 2005 had 8121 disposals at an average of 324.84, and Geelong had 10438 disposals this year at an average of 417.52 per game. That's 28.5% more.

 

[tin can sam]

To Tin Can Sam, Cousins had Kerr and Judd as inside players.

He had 391 kicks and 221 handballs that year, plus 149 inside 50s (more than any player from 2009) and kicked 24 goals. Ablett had less than 300 kicks this year and only 67 inside 50s. Personally I thought he was more valuable in other years.

And also you need to remember that West Coast in 2005 had 8121 disposals at an average of 324.84, and Geelong had 10438 disposals this year at an average of 417.52 per game. That's 28.5% more.

I'm well aware that Cousins was a better outside player in 05 then Ablett was in 09. I only said Ablett won more of his own footy.

 

[AcidFiend]

Personally M. Voss is the decades greatest player IMO and beats both these guys.

And this from a massive Ablett fan

 

[Donakebab]

Never seen Geelongs midfild play like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ukSjyIVho&feature=related

That 30sec is the most unbelievable piece of play from 3 gun midfielders I have ever seen.....Had it all.....tenacity, strength, skill, balance, pace, poise etc etc.

I can watch this over and over again.

Cuzzy put Kerr under a shitload of pressure with that handball, and then even though Kerr somehow got out of the tackle, the fact that Judd ended up with the ball was a complete fluke. The only two good parts of play there was Cousins' gather and Judd's baulk then crazy left hand bounce.

 

[willoblue]

Personally M. Voss is the decades greatest player IMO and beats both these guys.

And this from a massive Ablett fan

wow!
i rate Black, Brown & Akermanis at Brisbane all higher than Voss.
i am so surprised to see so many rate him so highly.
i did miss footy in 95 & 96 when I was overseas.
Both Gazza Jnr & Cousins (who i really dislike) rate higher than Voss IMO

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Ben Cousins comfortably. He could do everything brilliantly from winning the hard-ball, to great kicking, to creative handballing, tackling and all the leader-ship material to expect like bumping, leading the pack, providing pressure etc. Gary Ablett's tackles have never been very effective and while he's a good kick, his handballing is hardly creative or Greg Williams esque, they're cheap if you ask me. I don't see him applying pressure that often either.

grand blue, i advise you watch geelong, because if you did, you would be aware that garry was the number 1 player in the afl for contested possesions.

i know when there is a player as good as ablett it is frustrating, and people have to make things up to be crytical such as the stuff ur saying.

but if your going to make up reasons why he isnt that good, at least dont make a fool out of urself in the face of statistics such as he isnt hard at the footy when he was number 1 in the afl

 

[geelong_crazy26]

i fail to see any logic behind this apparent cheap possesions theory

as dermott brereton pointed out, which was a very very good point he made in defence of ablett.

that in defense, you want the ball in the hands of the best most skilled player in your side, its the most pressurizing place on the ground for the ball to be in, and especially with the new frontal pressures, ablett is the bloke you want the ball in the hands of every single time down their, that its not cheap possesions, his disposals in the back half are probly just as important as any other disposal he gathers. besides his possesions in the back half, he was number 1 in the AFL for contested possesions

 

[EaglesFlyingHigh]

My sig and avatar suggests who ill be voting for!

 

[GrandBlue]

grand blue, i advise you watch geelong, because if you did, you would be aware that garry was the number 1 player in the afl for contested possesions.

i know when there is a player as good as ablett it is frustrating, and people have to make things up to be crytical such as the stuff ur saying.

but if your going to make up reasons why he isnt that good, at least dont make a fool out of urself in the face of statistics such as he isnt hard at the footy when he was number 1 in the afl

Ever wonder why people think you're an idiot?

For starters, I watched quite a few Geelong games this year and Ablett rarely wins a hard contest. Sure, he may get the statistic for contested possessions but that counts if you just pick up the football a couple of meters away from the next opponent. As far as crashing through packs goes and going at it hard, Ablett is poor. I've seen it all, his defencive pressure in the middle is poor, his tackling is poor, his determination to win the ball is poor. These are all attributes Cousins excells at and it's what compells me to believe he's easily the better player than Ablett. Absolutely no doubt about it.

and believe me, I'm more than happy we don't have a player like Ablett. I prefer the Dogs gameplan where we all share the ball through the middle rather than just do a quick little pass to the resident love-child.

Also, funny how you're saying I make things up, you're basing your argument off misleading statistics! All credibility lost... not that I even had it in the first place.

 

[Mattman93]

Sort of reminds me of Cuz vs Judd, although I think that Judd at WC was better than Gablett. As great as Ablett is/Judd was, I think Cuz had something that they didn't, just his ability to stand up at the crucial point of the game every time was amazing.

 

[pacemaker]

the poll speaks for its self saying cousins 05 is superior than ablett 09 IN OVERALL ASPECTS of footy in the AFL

 

[Spluff]

I'm more than happy we don't have a player like Ablett.

Yeah, me too. The only thing that could be worse is to have Riewoldt, Judd, or Franklin. If that happened I would probably cry.

 

[Mephistopheles929]

Ever wonder why people think you're an idiot?

For starters, I watched quite a few Geelong games this year and Ablett rarely wins a hard contest. Sure, he may get the statistic for contested possessions but that counts if you just pick up the football a couple of meters away from the next opponent. As far as crashing through packs goes and going at it hard, Ablett is poor. I've seen it all, his defencive pressure in the middle is poor, his tackling is poor, his determination to win the ball is poor. These are all attributes Cousins excells at and it's what compells me to believe he's easily the better player than Ablett. Absolutely no doubt about it.

and believe me, I'm more than happy we don't have a player like Ablett. I prefer the Dogs gameplan where we all share the ball through the middle rather than just do a quick little pass to the resident love-child.

Also, funny how you're saying I make things up, you're basing your argument off misleading statistics! All credibility lost... not that I even had it in the first place.

Ablett's determination to win the ball is poor? Well why has he been in the top 5 in the league for hardball gets for the past three seasons?

Ablett's tackling is poor...and Cousins excels at it? Cousins has laid 441 tackles at an average of 1.7 a game across his career. Ablett has laid 619 at an average of 3.7 a game across his career. Cousins has laid more than 50 tackles in a season once...the only time Ablett hasn't laid 60 tackles in a season was 2002 when he only played 12 games.

I might have been misled by statistics so could you explain how exactly Cousins excels as a tackler while Ablett is poor?

 

[burto]

Sort of reminds me of Cuz vs Judd, although I think that Judd at WC was better than Gablett. As great as Ablett is/Judd was, I think Cuz had something that they didn't, just his ability to stand up at the crucial point of the game every time was amazing.

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[lionshine]

Ben Cousins for mine. If the Lions recruited Cousins last year we would win the 2010 premiership. Same with Ablett I know, but im said Ben cause we were in with a chance lol. Cousins is a superstar at his best and was just behind Crawford in freakish running ability! I love them both! But yeah Cousins.

 

[lionshine]

wow!
i rate Black, Brown & Akermanis at Brisbane all higher than Voss.
i am so surprised to see so many rate him so highly.
i did miss footy in 95 & 96 when I was overseas.
Both Gazza Jnr & Cousins (who i really dislike) rate higher than Voss IMO

Vossy got a massive bump got back up and handballed to Black who kicked a goal. That is inspiration and courage and leadership. In a grandfinal too. He captained a side to 3 premierships in a row and led them to 4 in a row. That is amazing. I didn't want to disturb this topic but seriously!

 

[Teak_Pies]

Ill go with G.Ablett. what a year he had

 

[LuKe2428]

[youtube]ahGEo64BQ_k[/youtube]

[youtube]1GqrlF9CcfI[/youtube]

So when you brake a tackle like he did in the first one were the player didnt even have a grip on him with one hand then go around to 30m out directly infront and snap a goal is that good is it?
Alot of players have done this through-out there career but i agree ont he second one that one was great. I suggest you take the first one off to make your statement better.

 

[GrandBlue]

Ablett's determination to win the ball is poor? Well why has he been in the top 5 in the league for hardball gets for the past three seasons?

Ablett's tackling is poor...and Cousins excels at it? Cousins has laid 441 tackles at an average of 1.7 a game across his career. Ablett has laid 619 at an average of 3.7 a game across his career. Cousins has laid more than 50 tackles in a season once...the only time Ablett hasn't laid 60 tackles in a season was 2002 when he only played 12 games.

I might have been misled by statistics so could you explain how exactly Cousins excels as a tackler while Ablett is poor?

Great, yet again, statistics are being brought into the equation. A Hardball get statistic gets added if you pick the ball up off the ground whilst a couple of meters away from another player and you don't even have to give it off. The way I see it, every time Ablett picks the ball up off the ground, he gets instantly tackled then ball up, or if he tries to take the opposition on, Free Kick against.

Oh, and regarding the tackling, you seem to be rating quantity higher than quality. I will admit, it's not Cousins' best statistic, however, it's his pressure on the opposition in general that he excells at and is something Ablett lacks.

By the way, if statistics are brought into the equation, Cousins smashes Ablett in Inside 50s. But as I said, that doesn't make him a better player. All previous points do.

 

[strengthwithin]

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hmmm reminds me of something...

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[Tomnat Tigers]

Stats dont mean anything for geelong with the of possies they get, it just crap to watch after a while at first it ok but then its crap.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Ever wonder why people think you're an idiot?

For starters, I watched quite a few Geelong games this year and Ablett rarely wins a hard contest. Sure, he may get the statistic for contested possessions but that counts if you just pick up the football a couple of meters away from the next opponent. As far as crashing through packs goes and going at it hard, Ablett is poor. I've seen it all, his defencive pressure in the middle is poor, his tackling is poor, his determination to win the ball is poor. These are all attributes Cousins excells at and it's what compells me to believe he's easily the better player than Ablett. Absolutely no doubt about it.

and believe me, I'm more than happy we don't have a player like Ablett. I prefer the Dogs gameplan where we all share the ball through the middle rather than just do a quick little pass to the resident love-child.

Also, funny how you're saying I make things up, you're basing your argument off misleading statistics! All credibility lost... not that I even had it in the first place.

grand blue, your a very left of field odd fellow with views like this, but big footy has it all, anything large and free does have the ability to draw a strange crowd.

anyway, so let me first clear this up, so the AFL statistical experts, who work out and define what is classified as a certain stat has to be, and have expert staff and technology behind scenes putting effortless time into the system to make it 150% accurate, are wrong in their data over the 22 rounds of observing ablett, and grandd blue, a bigfooty poster is correct, AHAAHAHAHAAHAHA. mate the day you get credit over experts will be the day our superiors turn into taliban like leaders.

If the people who are paid to define and observe football statistics as part of a career, say ablett is number one in the AFL for hard ball gets, then your wrong grand blue, its as simple as that, and the fact that your clearly a biast person, and their system isnt, only makes you even more of a fool for saying such things.

il also make an idiot out of one of your statements once again, because i would just love to find out exactly just how terrible leading contested possesions brownlow medalist garry ablett jnr is defensive wise precisely.

for starters, his opponents are generally not even watching the ball, they are just so obsessed with holding onto garry and trying to limit him, its not a aim of theirs to gather attack, just to nullify him.

for a midfielder with such poor defensive skills, my money says from memory, that he never got more than 2 goals ever kicked on him, i would say he even very rarely got a goal kicked on him, infact, his opponents hardly got many touches full stop.

please respond and make a fool out of urself more, its good to read obsurd left of field opinions once and a while

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Stats dont mean anything for geelong with the of possies they get, it just crap to watch after a while at first it ok but then its crap.

take a little think, and you may discover in your brain the reason why geelong get so many more possesions.

2 premierships and 54 wins out of 60 games, suggests our 18 players on the park are much better than the opposition, and simply are able to get the ball more and use it efficiently, common sense.

the ball just doesnt zapp out of the other teams hands and into the geelong players, its called tallent to get the pill and maintain it.

 

[Knife Wrench]

Stats dont mean anything for geelong with the of possies they get, it just crap to watch after a while at first it ok but then its crap.

I really hope you were drunk when you wrote this...or maybe you're a 7 year old? Otherwise that is pretty sad.

 

[Tomfoolery]

So when you brake a tackle like he did in the first one were the player didnt even have a grip on him with one hand then go around to 30m out directly infront and snap a goal is that good is it?

Alot of players have done this through-out there career but i agree ont he second one that one was great. I suggest you take the first one off to make your statement better.

The first one is a better argument for his statement, of Ablett being able to stand up in curtail moments of the game.

To stand up and do what he did in front of the biggest crowd of the season, in a clutch moment of a preliminary final to help Geelong win the game, I would say is a good, yes?. It is also why he is such an important player and is more valuable than the gut-running and average skills of cousins in 2005.

Never seen Geelongs midfild play like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ukSjyIVho&feature=related

That 30sec is the most unbelievable piece of play from 3 gun midfielders I have ever seen.....Had it all.....tenacity, strength, skill, balance, pace, poise etc etc.

I can watch this over and over again.

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and geelong hit the forward and kicked the goal...