News Crows Press Conference - The Fallout Continues *now with poll*

[arrowman]

You need to separate the actual camp from the results of the camp, that is division and distrust.

Yes, I do feel like the aftermath and the way it was handled have been more significant than the camp itself.

I can imagine in a situation like that, if your leaders/managers apologised for stuff-ups, it won't happen again, or whatever, that reasonable, professional people would move on. But if it's not so frank and open, that's when people get ticked off. What do they say - it's not the crime, it's the cover up that'll get you every time.

 

[Anzacpaul]

Mark Williams has been told players were tied to trees naked with rope

 

[Croweater23]

What’s all this business about a family member of someone within the playing group being targeted as a result of them speaking out about the camp? Being told to HTFU etc.

Not to draw assumptions, but based on all the noise I can’t help but think it’s Eddie’s wife. Would explain his season.

Chocco on 5aa now saying he has heard disgusting things being said to Jacobs, players being nude and held against trees with ropes (or something?... lol?).

I have little doubt that heads will roll from this only a matter of who.

 

[Samcro24]

Did Caro say the players wanted an apology from Burton, which they got but werent impressed with it?

Yeah, I can see that.



Ummm...sorry guys... I guess. *shakes head*

 

[mattymac]

The problem with this club, which it always has been, is that the tail wags the dog.

We've all seen it. The players are treated like minor celebrities because it's a small football mad town with only 2 teams, one of which has leprosy.

The only time we've had any success at all was when one M Blight came in and sent a bunch of the worst culprits on their bikes.

Since then it's been a litany of weak minded and distracted players who consistently don't turn up when the heat is on and routinely go on strike to get coaches sacked when they want a scapegoat.

For this reason I have no issue with the decision to have the camp. Pyke realised how mentally weak they were and tried to remedy it.

Tick.

Unfortunately it was done poorly.

That's ok. We all make mistakes.

And I don't blame our season on the camp at all. I blame it on our injuries thanks to B&H and one other factor.

The critical thing that pisses me right off is the lack of leadership that has allowed this to fester and get blown into mythological proportions.

When you make a mistake, own it and put it to bed.

Disgraceful void of leadership from the club.

Unforgivable.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

I feel like this is what we should heading to West Lakes

 

[mattymac]

If they're not careful and don't do something soon the media will force Au Pair Gill to wade in and who knows where that will end

 

[jo172]

What’s all this business about a family member of someone within the playing group being targeted as a result of them speaking out about the camp? Being told to HTFU etc.

Not to draw assumptions, but based on all the noise I can’t help but think it’s Eddie’s wife. Would explain his season.

Chocco on 5aa now saying he has heard disgusting things being said to Jacobs, players being nude and held against trees with ropes (or something?... lol?).

I have little doubt that heads will roll from this only a matter of who.

I'd certainly hesitate at taking anything Choco says at face value.

 

[Vhaluus]

I feel like this is what we should heading to West Lakes

View attachment 552371

All that would happen is fagan would tell everyone to be careful of his car.

We have 0 power.

 

[Roovolution]

Make no mistake. This IS a media attack. Unprecedented. And it hasn’t let up since we lost the GF. Let’s kick the Club while it’s down eh? They’ve continually attacked Tex this year and now she throws in the drinking issue with Tex, that was dealt with by the Club and is nobody’s business. But ah... let’s chuck it in to make them look even worse. FFS. Yet she let SPP - who assaulted a young woman - off the ******* hook no worries. Why? Because she was an invited speaker at their club. Open your eyes. They need news. They need headlines. Unfortunately our unbelievably bad communication approach this year has made us sitting ducks for this shit.

The bizarre thing for me is that there’s clearly a division between Fages, Pyke, Burton who think the players should harden the f*** up and certain players who feel they’ve been mistreated. It also seems like players like Tex, Sloane, Crouch and possibly others have gone from either liking the camp or at least not feeling so upset that they wouldn’t back the club in and they at the very least kept to the company line throughout the year. That seems to have changed and I suspect that the group of players who didn’t like the camp have turned them into now being adamant that the camp wasn’t a good thing.

You’ve also got the media who are lapping this up as it gives them clicks and ratings.

Then you’ve got some staff at the club who didn’t think elements of the camp weren’t done properly in terms of health and safety.

The AFL and the AFLPA have been notified and are aware of what’s going on but still refuse to get involved. As Caroline said “nothing to see here”.

So, I think the camp was a bit confrontational and uncomfortable for some and some staff didn’t agree with what went on or how it was run. Fair enough.

Would Fages etc tell the players to harden the f*** up and would the AFL and AFLPA ignore it if there was genuine issues with the camp? I can’t see that they’d turn a blind eye to dangerous practices or could see genuine examples of players suffering.

But clearly there’s an element of the club that feel that the players health wasn’t properly looked after.

It’s bizarre.

But, the biggest thing for me is that the AFL and AFLPA still, despite all the media attention, refuse to get involved. Why is that?

Just as I’m writing this Mark Williams says players were tied naked to trees and things were said to Sauce Jacobs (must’ve been in reference to his brother) that were clearly inappropriate. Surely the AFLPA would get involved if this was true!!

Bizarre.

Regardless the club has handled this extremely poorly.

 

[Anzacpaul]

I know it makes zero difference, but I had to send it.

 

[Elite Crow]

Did Caro say the players wanted an apology from Burton, which they got but werent impressed with it?

Yeah, I can see that.

View attachment 552370

Ummm...sorry guys... I guess. *shakes head*

“I’m sorry that you’ve made me say sorry”

 

[relapse]

For all our paranoia around the" Big V is trying to kill us", it's actually the incompetence of internal AFC people that have closed our premiership window on the most recent occasions in 2012 and this year.

THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too many people blame our failure on everyone else because they refuse to believe that it's the clubs fault.

"The VFL will never let us win", it's all just nonsense to justify our lack of success rather than directly blaming the club for our own failure.

 

[cocka]

What’s all this business about a family member of someone within the playing group being targeted as a result of them speaking out about the camp? Being told to HTFU etc.

Not to draw assumptions, but based on all the noise I can’t help but think it’s Eddie’s wife. Would explain his season.

Chocco on 5aa now saying he has heard disgusting things being said to Jacobs, players being nude and held against trees with ropes (or something?... lol?).

I have little doubt that heads will roll from this only a matter of who.

Think it was Sam Jacob's wife.

 

[Doctor B]

Chocco Williams talking on 5aa about nude players on the camp, I googled Mankind Project nudity and found this.
What due diligence was performed on this group?


mankindproject.org/phearing-phallus-sexuality-and-nudity-nwta/


Phearing the Phallus – Sexuality and Nudity on the NWTA
There is some nudity on the New Warrior Training Adventure. It is about 5% of the total experience. About 2 hours out of 50. For all of this time, nudity is secondary to the primary intention, not the focus.

is never sexual. There is no sexual touching on the New Warrior Training Adventure. It has always been forbidden and this is strictly enforced. It’s one of the first rules of the weekend that men will hear on Friday. No man will ever be asked to let another man touch his genitals or to touch another man’s genitals. The assertion that this ever happens is ridiculous and slanderous. This rumor was alleged in an article in 2007, which we responded to. The ManKind Project will take swift action in response to any report of sexual impropriety on our training weekends. We trust the journalistic integrity of reporters who read this story. We’re confident that reporters will represent us fairly and not report false information.

Why do we do this?
The male body, in its many forms, is beautiful, normal, ridiculous, natural. We use nudity on our training to reveal and confront shame about the male body and to challenge our negative self images. In North America, this is seen as controversial in some communities. At our trainings in Europe, this is almost never an issue. In fact, in many parts of the United States, this is not an issue. Specifics of class, religious beliefs and ethnic culture play a large role, and we respect these differences. And as we said above, nudity is not required.

We don’t pretend that our workshop is the be-all, end-all personal growth experience for men, or that it will match up with every man’s expectations of what it should be. But for a large group of guys who want to make the world a better place, we have enjoyed tremendous success over two and half decades of these weekends and we will keep on providing a place for men who want to step outside of their comfort zones and grow.

The Fear of the Phallus
Honest and affirming dialog about male sexuality is still taboo. Today’s young men are raised in a stilted, secretive culture where their expectations of the male body may be almost exclusively formed by viewing pornography. This presents a deeply warped view the male body. (And we cannot help but also notice and confront the often harmful, degrading, warped and objectified view of the female form and female sexuality.) The rest of the time we see men in the media who are either the ‘idealized’ athlete, soldier, comic book hero, or the ridiculed overweight slob. None of these are healthy or typical representations. Deeply ingrained homophobia, self-hatred, and fear of being ostracized or teased has fundamentally altered the fabric of male development. Many men carry painful memories of locker-room torment, self-consciousness and shame. As adult men, the preoccupation with sexual prowess, sexual function (E.D., penis enlargement) or sexual orientation forms a constant stream of meta information in our culture (not to mention spam!). And the message is usually that we’re not OK, not good enough, or not acceptable to society. Our intent is to create safety to reimagine a man’s relationship to his own body and to his sexuality.

Men have the opportunity to begin constructing a sexuality that will help them deepen their relationship to themselves and their wives or partners. This exercise helps men create the intimacy that they want in their lives.

Why a Phallus?
Men have penises. The penis will be a part of any candid discussion about male sexuality. Men have unrealistic expectations and fears about their bodies, and especially their penises. A phallus is a metaphorical representation of that fear and insecurity. The fact that entire articles have been written about the ManKind Project with the focus on this symbol is evidence of just how frightening it is to many. The use of a wooden phallus as a ‘talking stick’ for a single process dealing directly with male sexuality on the NWTA has become sensationalized in some articles as if there is something unseemly or sexual going on, when in truth it is used simply as a metaphorical anchor for a very necessary discussion.

If a man is uncomfortable holding a wooden representation of the very part of his anatomy that makes him male, what does that say about his relationship to his own body, or to his manhood? What does it say about our culture that this single object comes to represent an entire training experience, when this discussion is only 2% of a much larger and carefully designed framework? By the time a man reaches 21 in American culture, it is likely that he has seen hundreds of dildos, phallic representations and actual penises (not to mention his own!). He has heard thousands of masturbation, sex, homophobic, misogynist and misandrist jokes. He has probably been teased, harassed or even assaulted about his body or his sexuality.

 

[ContrarianCrow]

What’s all this business about a family member of someone within the playing group being targeted as a result of them speaking out about the camp? Being told to HTFU etc.

Not to draw assumptions, but based on all the noise I can’t help but think it’s Eddie’s wife. Would explain his season.

Chocco on 5aa now saying he has heard disgusting things being said to Jacobs, players being nude and held against trees with ropes (or something?... lol?).

I have little doubt that heads will roll from this only a matter of who.

Pictured: Crows players complete the "Crossing the Desert" ritual under the watchful supervision of the High Performance team.

 

[Scorpus]

I would love for a journo - just one journo, of the many in the profession - to ask some genuine, specific, hard questions of senior Crows staff. Things like:

"Did Don Pyke bring back Collective Mind, or anyone associated with or employed at Collective Mind, mid way through the 2018 season?"

"Are there any Crows players in dispute with the club over contractual issues arising from the camp?"

"Did the Crows chief medical offer pen a letter to club officials regarding the camp? What was in that letter?"

"Why would Josh Francou prefer to teach children than coach at AFL level at the Crows? What was in Francou's letter to management regarding the camp and related issues?"

"Who was the highest ranking official involved with hiring Collective Mind? Was it Brett Burton? Or was it board level? If it was board level, who was directly involved with scrutinizing/making the decision? Which board members?"

"I have a list of all 45 current Crows players in front of me here. I'm going to read off each one, and I want you to tell me whether they brought up any issues at all regarding the pre-season camp. A simple yes/no will suffice."

"Why exactly is Mitch McGovern no longer a suitable fit at the Adelaide Crows after signing a 3 year contract extension at the end of 2017?"

"Did any staff members at the Crows apologize to the players over the camp and injury concerns? Who apologized specifically? Was the apology well received, or were there further complaints?"

 

[Roovolution]

No players would come here

Which is a consequence the club should’ve thought about when things started hitting the fan andnyet they stick to this stone walling.

 

[Anzacpaul]

Chocco Williams talking on 5aa about nude players on the camp, I googled Mankind Project nudity and found this.
What due diligence was performed on this group?


mankindproject.org/phearing-phallus-sexuality-and-nudity-nwta/


Phearing the Phallus – Sexuality and Nudity on the NWTA
There is some nudity on the New Warrior Training Adventure. It is about 5% of the total experience. About 2 hours out of 50. For all of this time, nudity is secondary to the primary intention, not the focus.

is never sexual. There is no sexual touching on the New Warrior Training Adventure. It has always been forbidden and this is strictly enforced. It’s one of the first rules of the weekend that men will hear on Friday. No man will ever be asked to let another man touch his genitals or to touch another man’s genitals. The assertion that this ever happens is ridiculous and slanderous. This rumor was alleged in an article in 2007, which we responded to. The ManKind Project will take swift action in response to any report of sexual impropriety on our training weekends. We trust the journalistic integrity of reporters who read this story. We’re confident that reporters will represent us fairly and not report false information.

Why do we do this?
The male body, in its many forms, is beautiful, normal, ridiculous, natural. We use nudity on our training to reveal and confront shame about the male body and to challenge our negative self images. In North America, this is seen as controversial in some communities. At our trainings in Europe, this is almost never an issue. In fact, in many parts of the United States, this is not an issue. Specifics of class, religious beliefs and ethnic culture play a large role, and we respect these differences. And as we said above, nudity is not required.

We don’t pretend that our workshop is the be-all, end-all personal growth experience for men, or that it will match up with every man’s expectations of what it should be. But for a large group of guys who want to make the world a better place, we have enjoyed tremendous success over two and half decades of these weekends and we will keep on providing a place for men who want to step outside of their comfort zones and grow.

The Fear of the Phallus
Honest and affirming dialog about male sexuality is still taboo. Today’s young men are raised in a stilted, secretive culture where their expectations of the male body may be almost exclusively formed by viewing pornography. This presents a deeply warped view the male body. (And we cannot help but also notice and confront the often harmful, degrading, warped and objectified view of the female form and female sexuality.) The rest of the time we see men in the media who are either the ‘idealized’ athlete, soldier, comic book hero, or the ridiculed overweight slob. None of these are healthy or typical representations. Deeply ingrained homophobia, self-hatred, and fear of being ostracized or teased has fundamentally altered the fabric of male development. Many men carry painful memories of locker-room torment, self-consciousness and shame. As adult men, the preoccupation with sexual prowess, sexual function (E.D., penis enlargement) or sexual orientation forms a constant stream of meta information in our culture (not to mention spam!). And the message is usually that we’re not OK, not good enough, or not acceptable to society. Our intent is to create safety to reimagine a man’s relationship to his own body and to his sexuality.

Men have the opportunity to begin constructing a sexuality that will help them deepen their relationship to themselves and their wives or partners. This exercise helps men create the intimacy that they want in their lives.

Why a Phallus?
Men have penises. The penis will be a part of any candid discussion about male sexuality. Men have unrealistic expectations and fears about their bodies, and especially their penises. A phallus is a metaphorical representation of that fear and insecurity. The fact that entire articles have been written about the ManKind Project with the focus on this symbol is evidence of just how frightening it is to many. The use of a wooden phallus as a ‘talking stick’ for a single process dealing directly with male sexuality on the NWTA has become sensationalized in some articles as if there is something unseemly or sexual going on, when in truth it is used simply as a metaphorical anchor for a very necessary discussion.

If a man is uncomfortable holding a wooden representation of the very part of his anatomy that makes him male, what does that say about his relationship to his own body, or to his manhood? What does it say about our culture that this single object comes to represent an entire training experience, when this discussion is only 2% of a much larger and carefully designed framework? By the time a man reaches 21 in American culture, it is likely that he has seen hundreds of dildos, phallic representations and actual penises (not to mention his own!). He has heard thousands of masturbation, sex, homophobic, misogynist and misandrist jokes. He has probably been teased, harassed or even assaulted about his body or his sexuality.

What the actual ****

 

[Samcro24]

THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too many people blame our failure on everyone else because they refuse to believe that it's the clubs fault.

"The VFL will never let us win", it's all just nonsense to justify our lack of success rather than directly blaming the club for our own failure.

Oh no, that's all true.

We just do the job for them before they have to intervene.

 

[Elite Crow]

Rowey has said that players, coaches and staff have been bullied to keep quiet.

If that’s the case they all need to go.

 

[mulz]

Choco Williams wowee drops massive bombshell

 

[Crowboto]

Mark Williams has been told players were tied to trees naked with rope

Rowey couldnt change the subject quick enough. Stinky Stinky.

 

[Roovolution]

Choco Williams wowee drops massive bombshell

From a ‘very credible source’ hmmm. That’s a worry. Reckon it’s true because getting naked with the people you work with would be quite confrontational.

 

[Scorpus]

Choco Williams wowee drops massive bombshell