News Cyril and Shannyn Rioli speak to Caro - link to club statement in page 8

[Hawthorn23]

Some further developments to the story in the video below:

Mod edit: it’s a must watch for anyone reading this thread.

 

[flinchfree]

It isn't about Caro though...

I will call him out on claiming to know the mind of Cyril when it is clear he doesn't understand Cyril's position and pretty much blames Shannyn for the whole situation, on my reading. It isn't for Long to decide what Cyril needs to move on from and the terms in which he moves on. It is time to listen and understand Cyril and Shannyn's point of view. Long has done absolutely nothing to help this situation.

Agree it shouldn't be about Caro, and this is how it wouldn't have been.

Article titled, Why Cyril left the Hawthorn Football Club and football, in his words...

Then, she should have simply assembled what he told her from tape or notes, and penned it on his behalf.
She should have ended the article with: I have no personal knowledge of what happened at the HFC outside of what Cyril and Shannyn have told me and pass no judgement on the matter. You would hope for both Cyril and the Club's benefit, that they would come together to work through that time and how it's affected not just Cyril, but quite likely indigenous players across the league.

Lastly, perhaps in media releases she could have simply stated that it seemed a tragedy for all of Cyril, the HFC, and the game itself that a player could have felt so disenfranchised by events happening at the Club he would no longer want to play our greatest game.
Instead of driving her own crusade bus.

Re Longy, why do you believe he doesn't know Cyril's mind on the matter? He was brought in to mediate between the Club and Cyril, is it your best guestimate he was not in the loop as to what had happened and how Cyril felt about it?
I would take Michael Long's thoughts on the matter over any other party thus far quoted. He has no allegiance to Hawthorn to give them benefit of the doubt, he DOES have allegiance to his nephew and has well established credentials on standing up for both indigeous people and against racism in football.
That unique position puts him well placed to comment publicly even if it does not support Cyril and Shannyn, just as it would if he had taken up the torch for Cyril in this action.
Would you have taken the same position if he supported Cyril in that report? That he wouldn't know Cyril's mind or understand his position?

 

[flinchfree]

Long's view seems to be Jeff is a good bloke, get over it, back the club not your wife
And Cyril hasn't talked to him since, curious

I disagree. His view seems to be that an apology was made and in good faith. That it was believable and sincere.
And that at that point both Cyril and Shannyn should have been able to accept it as such.
Cyril hasn't talked to anyone it seems since then, except Caro.
That should tell you something about what is going on.

 

[MrPremiership]

Imagine reading all that has come out in the last few weeks......and then focussing on Caro



Guys, there are a lot of other more important issues here

 

[Gralin]

I disagree. His view seems to be that an apology was made and in good faith. That it was believable and sincere.
And that at that point both Cyril and Shannyn should have been able to accept it as such.
Cyril hasn't talked to anyone it seems since then, except Caro.
That should tell you something about what is going on.

In the article Long was quoted as saying

It was blown out of proportion with Jeff [Kennett]. [...] Jeff’s apologised a number of times and wrote a letter.
We all make mistakes, but this is not a colour thing. It’s about a pair of jeans and even though Shannyn might have felt humiliated, you don’t end someone’s football career over that.

'That’s a sad state of affairs.

I think that lines up pretty well to what I posted

 

[Pessimistic]

Imagine reading all that has come out in the last few weeks......and then focussing on Caro



Guys, there are a lot of other more important issues here

That’s your opinion. She is ‘cOncErneD’ but is doing the opposite of helping.

I see opinion heavily on Cyril’s side. What battle is she fighting?

 

[flinchfree]

In the article Long was quoted as saying

It was blown out of proportion with Jeff [Kennett]. [...] Jeff’s apologised a number of times and wrote a letter.
We all make mistakes, but this is not a colour thing. It’s about a pair of jeans and even though Shannyn might have felt humiliated, you don’t end someone’s football career over that.

'That’s a sad state of affairs.

I think that lines up pretty well to what I posted

Fair enough, I reckon it lines up pretty well to what I posted too so maybe we posted the same thing?

 

[cs61]

Imagine reading all that has come out in the last few weeks......and then focussing on Caro



Guys, there are a lot of other more important issues here

I think some people are wanting that to be the case, but it's not about Wilson, but about looking at issues without context and information compared to hearing all perspectives and having a discussion about that openly, and not condemning those who have a different perspective through semantics, labels and generalizations.

Personally I would make many changes in Australia in a blink of an eye. I would change the date of Australian Day away from a day that Indigenous Australia's find offensive and painful. I would have an inclusive flag, and also Indigenous verses in our anthem. I think we should absolutely continue to educate about the past and look to improve as the more I read, the more I cant believe how blissfully ignorant I was in my school days about the Indigenous perspectives of our past, and have since taken indigenous studies at university, and think still people have no idea how really how shameful some of our history really is, and we need to continue to navigate that as we move forward.

The AFL and our club should (and do) take an active role in leading that, and should reflect on how we can be better. But that doesn't mean we should seek to condemn every accusation of 'racial red flags' without due consideration, nor neglect to commend on the change and progress that has been made in society, the AFL and at Hawthorn in the process. It does zero justice to the culture that was created the way it has being (deliberately) framed. Clarkson put his heart and soul into his players, including Cyril, and to sum him up as 'he means well but he's racially uneducated', did him the least bit of justice possible. The club publicly is making all the right calls in their language and attitude towards this, but if we don't think there are some very disappointed individuals for those who are directly involved with how this has come out, I think we being naive.

For so many to sit there righteously and condemn how Lewis and etc handled the situation, I think has been poor form, as if we all would have absolutely acted any better, and as if there wasn't things in the way it was handled that were positive. I have (unfortunately) heard that word countless times in society, and I've never seen a heartfelt apology and it followed up, not once. People are a reflection of broader society, and the person who said it was a reflection of where he grew up, not a reflection of Hawthorn. What was a reflection of Hawthorn was it was dealt with and followed up on immediately. Could we be better, thinking back about what happened nearly 10 years ago... of course.. Should we use it as a chance to reflect on and improve and listen? Of course. But the idea that those words were somehow proof that Hawthorn has a terrible culture seemed to be lacking in evidence when hearing it, and reflects poorly on the journalist who tried to claim this was a racial red flag at Hawthorn. I would also ask whether the person who was directly involved in the incident would have wanted this to come out so publicly given it appeared to have been resolved in 2013, and now they have to go through this with intense media attention.

 

[flinchfree]

I think some people are wanting that to be the case, but it's not about Wilson, but about looking at issues without context and information compared to hearing all perspectives and having a discussion about that openly, and not condemning those who have a different perspective through semantics, labels and generalizations.

Personally I would make many changes in Australia in a blink of an eye. I would change the date of Australian Day away from a day that Indigenous Australia's find offensive and painful. I would have an inclusive flag, and also Indigenous verses in our anthem. I think we should absolutely continue to educate about the past and look to improve as the more I read, the more I cant believe how blissfully ignorant I was in my school days about the Indigenous perspectives of our past, and have since taken indigenous studies at university, and think still people have no idea how really how shameful some of our history really is, and we need to continue to navigate that as we move forward.

The AFL and our club should (and do) take an active role in leading that, and should reflect on how we can be better. But that doesn't mean we should seek to condemn every accusation of 'racial red flags' without due consideration, nor neglect to commend on the change and progress that has been made in society, the AFL and at Hawthorn in the process. It does zero justice to the culture that was created the way it has being (deliberately) framed. Clarkson put his heart and soul into his players, including Cyril, and to sum him up as 'he means well but he's racially uneducated', did him the least bit of justice possible. The club publicly is making all the right calls in their language and attitude towards this, but if we don't think there are some very disappointed individuals for those who are directly involved with how this has come out, I think we being naive.

For so many to sit there righteously and condemn how Lewis and etc handled the situation, I think has been poor form, as if we all would have absolutely acted any better, and as if there wasn't things in the way it was handled that were positive. I have (unfortunately) heard that word countless times in society, and I've never seen a heartfelt apology and it followed up, not once. People are a reflection of broader society, and the person who said it was a reflection of where he grew up, not a reflection of Hawthorn. What was a reflection of Hawthorn was it was dealt with and followed up on immediately. Could we be better, thinking back about what happened nearly 10 years ago... of course.. Should we use it as a chance to reflect on and improve and listen? Of course. But the idea that those words were somehow proof that Hawthorn has a terrible culture seemed to be lacking in evidence when hearing it, and reflects poorly on the journalist who tried to claim this was a racial red flag at Hawthorn. I would also ask whether the person who was directly involved in the incident would have wanted this to come out so publicly given it appeared to have been resolved in 2013, and now they have to go through this with intense media attention.

Major Rep. Well said.

 

[Pessimistic]

I think some people are wanting that to be the case, but it's not about Wilson, but about looking at issues without context and information compared to hearing all perspectives and having a discussion about that openly, and not condemning those who have a different perspective through semantics, labels and generalizations.

Personally I would make many changes in Australia in a blink of an eye. I would change the date of Australian Day away from a day that Indigenous Australia's find offensive and painful. I would have an inclusive flag, and also Indigenous verses in our anthem. I think we should absolutely continue to educate about the past and look to improve as the more I read, the more I cant believe how blissfully ignorant I was in my school days about the Indigenous perspectives of our past, and have since taken indigenous studies at university, and think still people have no idea how really how shameful some of our history really is, and we need to continue to navigate that as we move forward.

The AFL and our club should (and do) take an active role in leading that, and should reflect on how we can be better. But that doesn't mean we should seek to condemn every accusation of 'racial red flags' without due consideration, nor neglect to commend on the change and progress that has been made in society, the AFL and at Hawthorn in the process. It does zero justice to the culture that was created the way it has being (deliberately) framed. Clarkson put his heart and soul into his players, including Cyril, and to sum him up as 'he means well but he's racially uneducated', did him the least bit of justice possible. The club publicly is making all the right calls in their language and attitude towards this, but if we don't think there are some very disappointed individuals for those who are directly involved with how this has come out, I think we being naive.

For so many to sit there righteously and condemn how Lewis and etc handled the situation, I think has been poor form, as if we all would have absolutely acted any better, and as if there wasn't things in the way it was handled that were positive. I have (unfortunately) heard that word countless times in society, and I've never seen a heartfelt apology and it followed up, not once. People are a reflection of broader society, and the person who said it was a reflection of where he grew up, not a reflection of Hawthorn. What was a reflection of Hawthorn was it was dealt with and followed up on immediately. Could we be better, thinking back about what happened nearly 10 years ago... of course.. Should we use it as a chance to reflect on and improve and listen? Of course. But the idea that those words were somehow proof that Hawthorn has a terrible culture seemed to be lacking in evidence when hearing it, and reflects poorly on the journalist who tried to claim this was a racial red flag at Hawthorn. I would also ask whether the person who was directly involved in the incident would have wanted this to come out so publicly given it appeared to have been resolved in 2013, and now they have to go through this with intense media attention.

Racial red flags. Caro says it’s not racial but cultural. Apparently we read that wrong

It IS different racial-cultural. To deny that hobbles the search for improvement

And I’m certainly not denying improvements need to be made, and I’m certainly not changing from dissapointment, and not thinking Cyril took life decisions on a a whim or anything like that.

 

[Randy Campbell]

If anybody has the answers, please let the world know.

 

[Denver Day Lewis]

That’s your opinion. She is ‘cOncErneD’ but is doing the opposite of helping.

I see opinion heavily on Cyril’s side. What battle is she fighting?

Are you drunk? What on earth are you on about?

 

[RUSHORE]

If anybody has the answers, please let the world know.

Shaun Burgoynes comments on this entire situation were and are the ones to take notice of !!!!!

 

[MrPremiership]

If anybody has the answers, please let the world know.

There's 47 pages on answers already in this thread apparently. Mostly Caro's fault

 

[MrPremiership]

Shaun Burgoynes comments on this entire situation were and are the ones to take notice of !!!!!

Were they vastly different from the comments of the club?

 

[Brishawk]

Agree it shouldn't be about Caro, and this is how it wouldn't have been.

Article titled, Why Cyril left the Hawthorn Football Club and football, in his words...

Then, she should have simply assembled what he told her from tape or notes, and penned it on his behalf.
She should have ended the article with: I have no personal knowledge of what happened at the HFC outside of what Cyril and Shannyn have told me and pass no judgement on the matter. You would hope for both Cyril and the Club's benefit, that they would come together to work through that time and how it's affected not just Cyril, but quite likely indigenous players across the league.

Lastly, perhaps in media releases she could have simply stated that it seemed a tragedy for all of Cyril, the HFC, and the game itself that a player could have felt so disenfranchised by events happening at the Club he would no longer want to play our greatest game.
Instead of driving her own crusade bus.

Re Longy, why do you believe he doesn't know Cyril's mind on the matter? He was brought in to mediate between the Club and Cyril, is it your best guestimate he was not in the loop as to what had happened and how Cyril felt about it?
I would take Michael Long's thoughts on the matter over any other party thus far quoted. He has no allegiance to Hawthorn to give them benefit of the doubt, he DOES have allegiance to his nephew and has well established credentials on standing up for both indigeous people and against racism in football.
That unique position puts him well placed to comment publicly even if it does not support Cyril and Shannyn, just as it would if he had taken up the torch for Cyril in this action.
Would you have taken the same position if he supported Cyril in that report? That he wouldn't know Cyril's mind or understand his position?

I do not care what Caro wrote. You care. Good for you. Don’t talk to me about Caro as I just disregard her opinion and examine the facts as best I can given how they are presented. I’m concerned about Cyril and Shannyn.

 

[Brishawk]

I think some people are wanting that to be the case, but it's not about Wilson, but about looking at issues without context and information compared to hearing all perspectives and having a discussion about that openly, and not condemning those who have a different perspective through semantics, labels and generalizations.

Personally I would make many changes in Australia in a blink of an eye. I would change the date of Australian Day away from a day that Indigenous Australia's find offensive and painful. I would have an inclusive flag, and also Indigenous verses in our anthem. I think we should absolutely continue to educate about the past and look to improve as the more I read, the more I cant believe how blissfully ignorant I was in my school days about the Indigenous perspectives of our past, and have since taken indigenous studies at university, and think still people have no idea how really how shameful some of our history really is, and we need to continue to navigate that as we move forward.

The AFL and our club should (and do) take an active role in leading that, and should reflect on how we can be better. But that doesn't mean we should seek to condemn every accusation of 'racial red flags' without due consideration, nor neglect to commend on the change and progress that has been made in society, the AFL and at Hawthorn in the process. It does zero justice to the culture that was created the way it has being (deliberately) framed. Clarkson put his heart and soul into his players, including Cyril, and to sum him up as 'he means well but he's racially uneducated', did him the least bit of justice possible. The club publicly is making all the right calls in their language and attitude towards this, but if we don't think there are some very disappointed individuals for those who are directly involved with how this has come out, I think we being naive.

For so many to sit there righteously and condemn how Lewis and etc handled the situation, I think has been poor form, as if we all would have absolutely acted any better, and as if there wasn't things in the way it was handled that were positive. I have (unfortunately) heard that word countless times in society, and I've never seen a heartfelt apology and it followed up, not once. People are a reflection of broader society, and the person who said it was a reflection of where he grew up, not a reflection of Hawthorn. What was a reflection of Hawthorn was it was dealt with and followed up on immediately. Could we be better, thinking back about what happened nearly 10 years ago... of course.. Should we use it as a chance to reflect on and improve and listen? Of course. But the idea that those words were somehow proof that Hawthorn has a terrible culture seemed to be lacking in evidence when hearing it, and reflects poorly on the journalist who tried to claim this was a racial red flag at Hawthorn. I would also ask whether the person who was directly involved in the incident would have wanted this to come out so publicly given it appeared to have been resolved in 2013, and now they have to go through this with intense media attention.

The subject of Cyril’s concern as expressed in the original article was that it was the club that had the problem. The only individual that was named that was directly involved in a racially loaded statement or action was Jeff.

Just about everyone that denied Jeff being racist demanded to know who said the b—-g comment so that individual could be condemned. No one waited on the context for that situation and now the same group is saying it was all sorted so let’s move on.

All the focus on individuals, be it Lewis, the unnamed comment maker or Caro, is a step away from the entire point raised by the rioli’s and that is that Cyril felt the club wasn’t supportive enough for him to continue playing and that these are examples of where he would expect more but was let down.

He did not say Lewis should be condemned for not reporting the comment nor did he say the person who made the comment should be condemned. He blamed the club for the comment not going anywhere beyond some members of the leadership group.

There is a big difference and people should be seeking to understand why he is saying what he said instead of picking sides and fighting each other over shit like what the **** Caro thinks about anything.

 

[Hawkforce]

For those that keep saying what Jeff said was a Dad joke and not racist just don't get it. It's about the tone and the setting and how what you says makes someone feel and who you'd say it to.

I have an indigenous daughter and she's always been my cheeky little monkey even as she grows up. The is a link between the term monkey and racism but at not point has she ever deemed it racist (she's 20 now) as the name came about because of her hyperactive and gymnastic lifestyle as a toddler/young kid, along with her gorgeous smile.

The flipside of this, would Jeff have said the same thing to Lyndall if she was wearing designer ripped jeans? We all know the answer to this is no. Would he have offered to give her cash for new jeans/clothes? No. This isn't racist because it was a Dad joke, it was racist because of the audience that Jeff would have made the joke (if you could ever call it that, I don't find it funny) to.

But we don't know this. In fact, given the nature of the "joke" it's almost a certainty that he's made the same "joke" to loads of white people - including his own children.

Shannyn and Cyril took it as racially charged and Jeff apologised. Shannyn and Cyril didn't accept that apology. That's their prerogative. Michael Long and Warren Mundine think its ridiculous to apply a racial veneer to a Designer Ripped Jeans "joke". That's their prerogative.

But the bit in bold is not a factual statement. You don't know. The fact you are stating that you do is part of the problem. There's as much evidence to say you are being racist to your daughter by calling her a monkey. In fact MORE evidence as there's a clear racial veneer to "monkey" jokes - whereas Designer Ripped Jeans are hardly racially charged.

So the real "flipside" is if your daughter came out and accused you of being racist for calling her a monkey and "we" all "knew" you were racist.

See the problem now?

 

[Realist]

The subject of Cyril’s concern as expressed in the original article was that it was the club that had the problem. The only individual that was named that was directly involved in a racially loaded statement or action was Jeff.

Just about everyone that denied Jeff being racist demanded to know who said the b—-g comment so that individual could be condemned. No one waited on the context for that situation and now the same group is saying it was all sorted so let’s move on.

All the focus on individuals, be it Lewis, the unnamed comment maker or Caro, is a step away from the entire point raised by the rioli’s and that is that Cyril felt the club wasn’t supportive enough for him to continue playing and that these are examples of where he would expect more but was let down.

He did not say Lewis should be condemned for not reporting the comment nor did he say the person who made the comment should be condemned. He blamed the club for the comment not going anywhere beyond some members of the leadership group.

There is a big difference and people should be seeking to understand why he is saying what he said instead of picking sides and fighting each other over shit like what the fu** Caro thinks about anything.

It’s getting tiring reading all these sycophants blaming “the club” for the Rioli’s concerns. Who is “the club”?
It’s Jordan Lewis, who swept the comment under the carpet. It’s Luke Hodge, the captain, who knew about the incident, but did nothing about it. It’s Alistair Clarkson, the coach, who continually used the condescending description “indigenous boys” when referring to our indigenous footballers. It’s Chris Fagan, who was football manager at the time. It’s Andrew Newbold, who was president. It’s Stuart Fox, who was CEO. It’s Andy Gowers, who was football director.
“The Club” during Cyril’s tenure was not a group of faceless men hovering in the background promoting a racist culture and policy. It wasn’t even Jeff Kennett for a large part.
Those people willing to kick “the club” for Cyril’s plight should start naming names because our great club is bigger and better than a bunch of individuals who were too ignorant or too disinterested to help one of our greatest ever footballers.


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[Turly]

It certainly looks like Caro and FC want to make this a saga.

And even journalists triggering each other. No surprise the journalists are further apart than the hawthorn people

At least she’s emphasising that it’s cultural issues and she ‘never sad it was racism’ but was happy that racism got clicks to the story

Honestly respect to Caro for sticking by her guns and her story. This is definitely an issue that needs to be dealt with.

FFS though. Kane shoving his ugly face in making an attempt to reassure his previous comments is putrid.

I've always (we've) known he loves to put us down. To do it during such sensitive segment is just downright crap IMO.

Why no comments after round 2?

 

[Brishawk]

It’s getting tiring reading all these sycophants blaming “the club” for the Rioli’s concerns. Who is “the club”?
It’s Jordan Lewis, who swept the comment under the carpet. It’s Luke Hodge, the captain, who knew about the incident, but did nothing about it. It’s Alistair Clarkson, the coach, who continually used the condescending description “indigenous boys” when referring to our indigenous footballers. It’s Chris Fagan, who was football manager at the time. It’s Andrew Newbold, who was president. It’s Stuart Fox, who was CEO. It’s Andy Gowers, who was football director.
“The Club” during Cyril’s tenure was not a group of faceless men hovering in the background promoting a racist culture and policy. It wasn’t even Jeff Kennett for a large part.
Those people willing to kick “the club” for Cyril’s plight should start naming names because our great club is bigger and better than a bunch of individuals who were too ignorant or too disinterested to help one of our greatest ever footballers.


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Well done on missing the point.

 

[cs61]

Or people are getting frustrated that they can't control the parameters of discussion, and dropping f bombs when people don't agree with looking it through the same narrow parameters as them. There is a difference between not accepting there is only one perspective, no matter how many times it is repeated and how obvious that perspective is to everyone, and not understanding a point.

 

[Yardie]

Or people are getting frustrated that they can't control the parameters of discussion, and dropping f bombs when people don't agree with looking it through the same narrow parameters as them. There is a difference between not accepting there is only one perspective, no matter how many times it is repeated and how obvious that perspective is to everyone, and not understanding a point.

I think that there are people that don't want to accept that we have to do better and just want this to go away. Hence all the deflection towards Caro and picking apart each individual act rather than looking at the whole.

 

[Pessimistic]

I think that there are people that don't want to accept that we have to do better and just want this to go away. Hence all the deflection towards Caro and picking apart each individual act rather than looking at the whole.

If you mean me I have both points of view

 

[Brishawk]

Or people are getting frustrated that they can't control the parameters of discussion, and dropping f bombs when people don't agree with looking it through the same narrow parameters as them. There is a difference between not accepting there is only one perspective, no matter how many times it is repeated and how obvious that perspective is to everyone, and not understanding a point.

How does a discussion about Caro help the rioli’s or the club?

 

[Realist]

Well done on missing the point.

sanctimonious
/ˌsaŋ(k)tɪˈməʊnɪəs/
adjective
making a show of being morally superior to other people.


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