Daniel Menzel 'returned to footy' progress updates

[manboob]

I'm not quite willing to believe he would be so reckless. Menzel must have been close at that time, even if it was still a few weeks off.

Could well have been - the hamstring really threw a spanner in the works. If the club can turn the midway point of the year having won more than they've lost an injection of Bartel and Menzel could really fire things up.

 

[catempire]

Could well have been - the hamstring really threw a spanner in the works. If the club can turn the midway point of the year having won more than they've lost an injection of Bartel and Menzel could really fire things up.

Not disputing it was a spanner.

All I am querying is 12 March + 3 weeks = 2 April. That was three weeks ago. There may well be an explanation - another hamstring setback, some knee soreness perhaps - and that's fine. Would just be good to know something beyond "medium term".

 

[abet]

I'm not quite willing to believe he would be so reckless. Menzel must have been close at that time, even if it was still a few weeks off.

But you believe Scott saying that he's a chance to play NAB games when Menzel himself said he wouldn't be ready until late May.

I think Scott thought to himself i'm gonna give catempire the runaround here and say Menzel is playing NAB, it worked.

 

[manboob]

Would just be good to know something beyond "medium term".

Agree 100% but with the Cats it's blood and stone!

 

[Lana]

Short term - sometime before the mid season bye
Medium term - sometime this year
Long term - sometime in the next 2 years
Indefinite - your guess is as good as ours

I expect him to play in the VFL this year, nothing more. All he needs to do to be on our list next year is play a few games without doing his knee again.

 

[catempire]

But you believe Scott saying that he's a chance to play NAB games when Menzel himself said he wouldn't be ready until late May.

I think Scott thought to himself i'm gonna give catempire the runaround here and say Menzel is playing NAB, it worked.

It all makes sense now then.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I expect him to play in the VFL this year, nothing more. All he needs to do to be on our list next year is play a few games without doing his knee again.

That would satisfy me too. Gets through some vfl games without blowing the knee out and then hit the pre season.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Subsequent to tat Scott was talking NAB Cup:

“They are still a little way away from playing but fortunately with the late start we have a couple of months almost until our first NAB Cup game,” Scott said.

“We are confident that those guys — even Menzel and Vardy — could be pushing (to play) around about that time frame.”​

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...hallenge-returns/story-fnjbnts5-1227179834423

don't forget McCarthy was 'at least a month away' at that time as well.

All I can conclude from that is that hurdles are popping up in front of these boys all the time, delaying their return by weeks every time. There is nothing anyone can do about those- they can't be predicted, they can't be eliminated apart from via a strict rehab schedule and this will vary from player to player and setback to setback.

I would rather the club took the long slow way back with all of their players- we've already seen what can happen when players with varying injuries are pushed too hard to play early- such as with Cowan, when he played more game time than was advised a year or so ago, and Kersten, who broke down last year after pushing through a minor injury, he just blew up and it killed his year.

Whatever the coaches and fitness boys are saying at the time, I understand is true- AT THAT POINT IN TIME- from their understanding of those injuries and the average healing time of each injury.

just think of the boys as having to race in the hurdles and, every time they think they're on the home straight, they find there's another hurdle to jump, another lap to run....

We are all just waiting for the last hurdle to be overcome and for them to round the corner coming into the home straight.

The other option is that the coaches, doctors and fitness staff just make stuff up and these boys are never going to come back because they just can't heal. In that case, I'm sure they would have all given up, grabbed their footy and gone off home a long time ago!

 

[Teriyakicat]

Not disputing it was a spanner.

All I am querying is 12 March + 3 weeks = 2 April. That was three weeks ago. There may well be an explanation - another hamstring setback, some knee soreness perhaps - and that's fine. Would just be good to know something beyond "medium term".

Do you really want to know if there's more knee tendonitis or another hamstring?? Sometimes I think we're better off in the dark I really don't want to hear that anything else has happened to him. Would prefer to think that the docs are just being careful and that the boys' bodies are taking their own damned slow time in healing everything.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

All I am querying is 12 March + 3 weeks = 2 April.

Again that's assuming the 3 weeks to be gospel...

 

[catempire]

don't forget McCarthy was 'at least a month away' at that time as well.

All I can conclude from that is that hurdles are popping up in front of these boys all the time, delaying their return by weeks every time. There is nothing anyone can do about those- they can't be predicted, they can't be eliminated apart from via a strict rehab schedule and this will vary from player to player and setback to setback.

I would rather the club took the long slow way back with all of their players- we've already seen what can happen when players with varying injuries are pushed too hard to play early- such as with Cowan, when he played more game time than was advised a year or so ago, and Kersten, who broke down last year after pushing through a minor injury, he just blew up and it killed his year.

Whatever the coaches and fitness boys are saying at the time, I understand is true- AT THAT POINT IN TIME- from their understanding of those injuries and the average healing time of each injury.

just think of the boys as having to race in the hurdles and, every time they think they're on the home straight, they find there's another hurdle to jump, another lap to run....

We are all just waiting for the last hurdle to be overcome and for them to round the corner coming into the home straight.

The other option is that the coaches, doctors and fitness staff just make stuff up and these boys are never going to come back because they just can't heal. In that case, I'm sure they would have all given up, grabbed their footy and gone off home a long time ago!

I agree with you. My comments on this issue aren't suggesting they haven't handled the actual treatment of the injury properly. They are about the way the club communicates progress to us (or doesn't as the case tends to be).

 

[catempire]

Do you really want to know if there's more knee tendonitis or another hamstring?? Sometimes I think we're better off in the dark I really don't want to hear that anything else has happened to him. Would prefer to think that the docs are just being careful and that the boys' bodies are taking their own damned slow time in healing everything.

I think you can safely assume from this conversation I'd prefer to know!

 

[Teriyakicat]

I agree with you. My comments on this issue aren't suggesting they haven't handled the actual treatment of the injury properly. They are about the way the club communicates progress to us (or doesn't as the case tends to be).

I gave my thoughts on that in the post after the one you've replied to. I would feel terribly upset if I heard Menzel had another setback. Maybe all the flurry of 'oh how sad, Daniel' messages are getting Menzel down and the docs and the club have decided to release only limited information, for his benefit? He might be OK with the 'how are you going' messages but is probably overwhelmed by all the 'get well' messages every time he pulls a muscle

 

[Teriyakicat]

Again that's assuming the 3 weeks to be gospel...

So now we have the Balme 2 weeks, the Scott 3 weeks... what next?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

So now we have the Balme 2 weeks, the Scott 3 weeks... what next?

My point is that using the same set of Scott quotes, one says 3 weeks another at least a month. Who is right?

 

[Partridge]

My point is that using the same set of Scott quotes, one says 3 weeks another at least a month. Who is right?

The one that said 3 weeks (that I quoted) was from the club. It might be wrong of course, but you can only go by what's on the club's own website.

 

[catempire]

I gave my thoughts on that in the post after the one you've replied to. I would feel terribly upset if I heard Menzel had another setback. Maybe all the flurry of 'oh how sad, Daniel' messages are getting Menzel down and the docs and the club have decided to release only limited information, for his benefit? He might be OK with the 'how are you going' messages but is probably overwhelmed by all the 'get well' messages every time he pulls a muscle

I would have thought that by now we have all got to the point where we could comfortably accept minor setbacks as a normal part of this journey. I wasn't fussed about the hamstring and I wouldn't be fussed if there was something else now.

To me, part of the fan experience is having transparency about what is going on. Others see it differently and don't care or want to know. Each to their own. I'm not lecturing others on what they should and shouldn't care about. I'll leave that to others.

 

[Teriyakicat]

My point is that using the same set of Scott quotes, one says 3 weeks another at least a month. Who is right?

Ah- just went back and found your earlier quote. I have NFI, NSFB. You'd have to find the original interview regarding Menzel's forecasted return and watch Scott's eyes.... maybe he said '3 weeks, possibly more' and one report has taken the 3 weeks and gone to print, while the other pessimistic bugger has looked at the 'more than 3 weeks' and decided that's at least a month... then taken his work to the printer

 

[abet]

I agree with you. My comments on this issue aren't suggesting they haven't handled the actual treatment of the injury properly. They are about the way the club communicates progress to us (or doesn't as the case tends to be).

The thing is, i don't think the club is going to change the way they communicate with us, some of us will accept that and some won't so this whole communication subject will be talked about and about and about.

 

[abet]

That would satisfy me too. Gets through some vfl games without blowing the knee out and then hit the pre season.

Well i'm easily satisfied then, as long as i don't hear Menzel doe's another knee i'm happy

 

[catempire]

The thing is, i don't think the club is going to change the way they communicate with us, some of us will accept that and some won't so this whole communication subject will be talked about and about and about.

They may change, they may not. They certainly won't if they feel they are doing enough now because nobody says anything.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I would have thought that by now we have all got to the point where we could comfortably accept minor setbacks as a normal part of this journey. I wasn't fussed about the hamstring and I wouldn't be fussed if there was something else now.

To me, part of the fan experience is having transparency about what is going on. Others see it differently and don't care or want to know. Each to their own. I'm not lecturing others on what they should and shouldn't care about. I'll leave that to others.

so it's all just a bit of a storm in a teacup again- those that want to know vs those that can't see what the fuss is about. You know I'm in the latter camp. I just think the expectation of a hard and fast return date in these instances is fantastical. There are way too many variables and the club is damned if they do give an expected return (that everyone is then trying to hold them to) and they're damned if they don't (we don't want to rush him back. OH, BUT HOW LONG WILL HE TAKE TO PLAY AGAIN??!!). If I was the GFC and I had the media on my back every week asking the same thing and I'd been pressured to give an 'idea' of a return date, I'd probably shut up shop and tell them that none of these LTI players' names will be mentioned on any injury list until they are ready to play.

Just a positive- I don't think any of these boys has their name on the LTIL, apart from McCarthy, is that right?

You might as well try and be a Melbourne weather forecaster. Will it rain? Yeah, probably. Are you sure? Hmm. It usually does rain at some stage during Autumn. But will it rain TODAY?? OK YES!!! FFS IT WILL RAIN TODAY!!

... then of course it doesn't... lol

 

[abet]

They may change, they may not. They certainly won't if they feel they are doing enough now because nobody says anything.

Well that's just it, the majority on here are happy with the way the club handles it, on the other hand you and a few others would prefer more info. I'd say they will go with the majority, plus they play ducks and drakes with other clubs which i don't mind.

 

[catempire]

so it's all just a bit of a storm in a teacup again- those that want to know vs those that can't see what the fuss is about. You know I'm in the latter camp. I just think the expectation of a hard and fast return date in these instances is fantastical. There are way too many variables and the club is damned if they do give an expected return (that everyone is then trying to hold them to) and they're damned if they don't (we don't want to rush him back. OH, BUT HOW LONG WILL HE TAKE TO PLAY AGAIN??!!). If I was the GFC and I had the media on my back every week asking the same thing and I'd been pressured to give an 'idea' of a return date, I'd probably shut up shop and tell them that none of these LTI players' names will be mentioned on any injury list until they are ready to play.

Just a positive- I don't think any of these boys has their name on the LTIL, apart from McCarthy, is that right?

You might as well try and be a Melbourne weather forecaster. Will it rain? Yeah, probably. Are you sure? Hmm. It usually does rain at some stage during Autumn. But will it rain TODAY?? OK YES!!! FFS IT WILL RAIN TODAY!!

... then of course it doesn't... lol

I've never agreed with the "damned if they do" part of it. I can't imagine anyone being able to gripe if the club communicated properly and kept us up to date. Despite the intimation here and by others, people generally do understand that unexpected things happen with injuries that are beyond anyone's control. People understand that this is an inexact science.

 

[catempire]

Well that's just it, the majority on here are happy with the way the club handles it, on the other hand you and a few others would prefer more info. I'd say they will go with the majority, plus they play ducks and drakes with other clubs which i don't mind.

I dispute your survey methodology and conclusions.