Player Watch Darcy Fogarty - Re-Signed to End of 2031

[Redleg Crow]

I can see why we tried it. Out of Melbourne and back into his home environment, you just cross your fingers and hope and change of scenery helps him. It didn't and now he's gone from playing in the AFL one year to playing for Tea Tree Gully the next.

Yep - at the time I thought it worth it. Thought the number 32 was a bit much though

 

[Geoffa32]

In hindsight, yes .....but at the time this board was in a frenzy of excitement about his potential ......but Carlton got rid of a 22YO for a reason, but no-one questioned that reason?

I think we thought we could get a professional work ethic into him.

We couldn't.

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[spexau]

Plenty of "plays like" Richard Douglas in there too amongst the top draftees, seems like Champion Data appreciate his football far more than some of our supporters.......And for the record I'm not one of those. I've always rated Douglas.

Keep in mind that it's "Plays Like" in a statistical sense, not observational.

 

[MRB37]

Champion Data ratings of Fogarty don't do him justice, more "red" than any other player in the top 24.

Some of the "plays like" are dead set laughable...

Doesn't look like there's any scaling on the results too. It's comparing senior SANFL football to UN18 football with TAC Cup performances to WAFL Colts etc.

 

[Bicks]

Keep in mind that it's "Plays Like" in a statistical sense, not observational.

I'll give you tip their neither if you look at them real closely, CD's "plays like" are mostly laughable on every level, stats = output and tell me those "plays like" come close on a hell of a lot of those players on that score........CD should stick to analytic stats and leave the player comparisons well alone. They were laughable last year and their worse this season.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I think we thought we could get a professional work ethic into him.

We couldn't.

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Think everyone could see the obvious talent Menzel has ......but talent without desire & work ethics, is a wasted talent

It's interesting in hindsight, that both Menzel Bros, seem anchored to forward pockets, .......both highly talented, Daniel lacking the 2 way running to defend as a forward .....what a waste of talent !

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Plenty of "plays like" Richard Douglas in there too amongst the top draftees, seems like Champion Data appreciate his football far more than some of our supporters.......And for the record I'm not one of those. I've always rated Douglas.

Sorry if name is incorrect, but Glen Luft from Champion Data, is an unabashed Crows lover .....always a fan of what we do

 

[Redleg Crow]

I think we thought we could get a professional work ethic into him.

We couldn't.

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Yep, it's always a bit of a shock that not everyone with talent wants it as much we think we would

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The move home didn't seem to help him. Few more mates to catch up with? Less focus on his football?

 

[DD#23]

Think everyone could see the obvious talent Menzel has ......but talent without desire & work ethics, is a wasted talent

It's interesting in hindsight, that both Menzel Bros, seem anchored to forward pockets, .......both highly talented, Daniel lacking the 2 way running to defend as a forward .....what a waste of talent !

the capacity to do that might just be beyond them too you know.

there's a reason the whole squad doesn't cross the line abreast with Jake Kelly during the time trials and its not just down to preparation by a long shot.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Champion Data ratings of Fogarty don't do him justice, more "red" than any other player in the top 24.

Some of the "plays like" are dead set laughable...

The Fogarty comparisons are ridiculous .......all of the comparisons are different players to each other .....obviously not a lot of thought went into the comparisons

I'm also laughing at the casual observers, who believe Fogarty is purely a forward & lacks the legspeed to play as a mid .......WTF, didn't they watch his Glenelg games this year, or some of his Sth Aust burst thru congested traffic

I do see Fogarty as Rucciutto (played Mid & forwd ) .....Pavlich (played Mid & forwd ) .....and he's definitely at least as quick as Cripps who's listed as 195cm ??

So 192cm + does not these days automatically "label" you a KPP

 

[WaynesWorld19]

the capacity to do that might just be beyond them too you know.

there's a reason the whole squad doesn't cross the line abreast with Jake Kelly during the time trials and its not just down to preparation by a long shot.

Maybe but chasing opponents is a choice .....Menzels bio as a junior was that he had excellent aerobic capacity

 

[Redleg Crow]

The Fogarty comparisons are ridiculous .......all of the comparisons are different players to each other .....obviously not a lot of thought went into the comparisons

I'm also laughing at the casual observers, who believe Fogarty is purely a forward & lacks the legspeed to play as a mid .......WTF, didn't they watch his Glenelg games this year, or some of his Sth Aust burst thru congested traffic

I do see Fogarty as Rucciutto (played Mid & forwd ) .....Pavlich (played Mid & forwd ) .....and he's definitely at least as quick as Cripps who's listed as 195cm ??

So 192cm + does not these days automatically "label" you a KPP

I know it is foolish to get too excited, but the Fog-Roo comparisons are there. Roo could kick a bag of goals when a kid playing for Waikerie, was tough as it gets and was always going to be a gun in the midfield once the fitness was there.

No one is saying he'll be a hall of famer, name on the grandstand level player - but the chance to be something special certainly is.

 

[spenze]

Keep in mind that it's "Plays Like" in a statistical sense, not observational.

Might means that they fall over lots...

 

[spenze]

No one is saying he'll be a hall of famer, name on the grandstand level player

I am, screw the haters

 

[Vhaluus]

I have no issue with us taking a risk on Menzel, I have an issue with us overpaying to take that risk.

 

[Mismatched]

I have no issue with us taking a risk on Menzel, I have an issue with us overpaying to take that risk.

Did we overpay?

When we drafted Menzel, he was an ex pick 13 with the talent of a pick 1, who'd already played 40 games and kicked 47 goals in 3 years on their list, having just had a year ruined by injury. We paid a mid second rounder and a fringe player who was struggling to get a game. Menzel works out for us, and he'd shown good signs at AFL level already, and what we paid would have been SFA and Carlton would have looked like idiots. We weren't getting him for anything less.

I have no issues with the price or the decision to draft him, at the time our side had plenty of depth, but lacked a little cream on the top, especially with Paddy leaving. Menzel was the epitome of cream on the top type player and he was an SA player to boot.

Disappointing that it didn't work out, but you move on, you cannot get everyone right, doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

 

[John Who]

Did we overpay?

When we drafted Menzel, he was an ex pick 13 with the talent of a pick 1, who'd already played 40 games and kicked 47 goals in 3 years on their list, having just had a year ruined by injury. We paid a mid second rounder and a fringe player who was struggling to get a game. Menzel works out for us, and he'd shown good signs at AFL level already, and what we paid would have been SFA and Carlton would have looked like idiots. We weren't getting him for anything less.

I have no issues with the price or the decision to draft him, at the time our side had plenty of depth, but lacked a little cream on the top, especially with Paddy leaving. Menzel was the epitome of cream on the top type player and he was an SA player to boot.

Disappointing that it didn't work out, but you move on, you cannot get everyone right, doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

Yep agree, Menzel was absolutely worth a shot with us. He had class and potential written all over him when the games I've seen him play AFL for Carlton. Even with the SANFL team this year, he was looking reasonably good (for the few games I've seen). I think Troy has been dealt a tough path, being in a poor club in Carlton, and having limited AFL opportunities with the Crows since Betts and Cameron had their spots locked in, and the forward line was clicking for the majority of last year and there was no major need for further changes.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Did we overpay?

When we drafted Menzel, he was an ex pick 13 with the talent of a pick 1, who'd already played 40 games and kicked 47 goals in 3 years on their list, having just had a year ruined by injury. We paid a mid second rounder and a fringe player who was struggling to get a game. Menzel works out for us, and he'd shown good signs at AFL level already, and what we paid would have been SFA and Carlton would have looked like idiots. We weren't getting him for anything less.

I have no issues with the price or the decision to draft him, at the time our side had plenty of depth, but lacked a little cream on the top, especially with Paddy leaving. Menzel was the epitome of cream on the top type player and he was an SA player to boot.

Disappointing that it didn't work out, but you move on, you cannot get everyone right, doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

If I told you that Menzel was getting paid $450k a season with the Crows would your opinion change?

 

[huludicidal]

If I told you that Menzel was getting paid $450k a season with the Crows would your opinion change?

I don’t believe he was on 450k. My understanding is that it was a 900k total contract over 3 years, but the 3rd year required certain triggers to be activated. Clearly that wasn’t achieved and he was subsequently delisted. Therefore he received 300k per season for 2 years only.

 

[tinman]

If I told you that Menzel was getting paid $450k a season with the Crows would your opinion change?

My first thoughts were, I wonder how much that works out per kick, and per goal?

And then I thought, no, it's bad enough already without making it any worse....

 

[Tex200]

Did we overpay?

When we drafted Menzel, he was an ex pick 13 with the talent of a pick 1, who'd already played 40 games and kicked 47 goals in 3 years on their list, having just had a year ruined by injury. We paid a mid second rounder and a fringe player who was struggling to get a game. Menzel works out for us, and he'd shown good signs at AFL level already, and what we paid would have been SFA and Carlton would have looked like idiots. We weren't getting him for anything less.

I have no issues with the price or the decision to draft him, at the time our side had plenty of depth, but lacked a little cream on the top, especially with Paddy leaving. Menzel was the epitome of cream on the top type player and he was an SA player to boot.

Disappointing that it didn't work out, but you move on, you cannot get everyone right, doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

I think that's perfectly sound logic looking at Menzel in isolation.

I do have an issue with the way the 2015 trade period played out as a whole. It's pretty well documented that we were rolled on Danger thanks to our Harvard genius not wanting to anchor - bigger fish to fry?

I felt we then seemed a little desperate to get bodies through the door as indirect compensation and indeed, justification. I look at Menzel, Hampton and Seedsman as a group, all of whom had their issues, and all of whom were relatively expensive in trade terms.

2 years on, Menzel is gone, Hampton is as he's always been - injury prone and Seedsman - the best of the 3, having played some cameos albeit inconsistently.

They were clearly known risks and, in a collective sense, we overpaid. By trying to compensate for Dangers loss we over did it and took 3 risks instead 1 maybe 2, and then hedging via the draft.

I'm a big fan of Curtly when he's up and running - hopefully we can get a full season of AFL from him in 2018 to add some balance to 2015.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I don’t believe he was on 450k. My understanding is that it was a 900k total contract over 3 years, but the 3rd year required certain triggers to be activated. Clearly that wasn’t achieved and he was subsequently delisted. Therefore he received 300k per season for 2 years only.

My mail is different. From what I have heard it was $450k per season for 3 years with the 3rd year being trigger based around some performance measurement which have obviously not been met. Bottom line, from what I have heard from a club person is that we basically paid him $900K over the two seasons he was on our list.

 

[Paladin]

My mail is different. From what I have heard it was $450k per season for 3 years with the 3rd year being trigger based around some performance measurement which have obviously not been met. Bottom line, from what I have heard from a club person is that we basically paid him $900K over the two seasons he was on our list.

I wonder if he got less chances in 2017 due to those triggers ala Hendo the year before?

 

[relapse]

I think it's not just the Menzel trade, I think our whole 2015 trade period in retrospect was shit.

Dangerfield + Kerridge for Menzel and Milera. Menzel has already been delisted and there are some huge question marks about Milera FAIL

Hampton for 2016 2nd rounder, massive overs for a mediocre injury plagued depth player FAIL

Seedsman for Pick 32, again massive overs and has not yet delivered. I still have hope for Seed, but at the moment this is definitely looking like a poor trade. FAIL