Dawes

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If Dawes fails, like he did for the entire 2012 season, then Neeld should go. Lets face it, our recruitment has been terrible with multitudes of high draft picks and we still sit near the bottom of the ladder - lucky for 2 expansion teams!

It defies logic that we are trying to improve, then we recruit other teams spuds.

Essendon recuit Goddard, Melbourne recruit Dawers and Byrnes. Spot the difference?

Being ruthless as a club, which Neeld has shown a tendency towards, doesn't mean blindly sacking a rookie coach who is steering the ship in the biggest club overhaul we've had in decades and decades and decades.

He needs to be given time to at least get HIS team in order before he cops the chop.

We won't really even know if Neeld can coach until mid next year. This year was assessment of the list and this trade period has been about filling deficiencies we have.

Deficiencies:

Key Forwards - check - he's recruited a Premiership Key forward who is about to enter his prime. A Key Forward who suffered horrifically from being played out of position for a large portion of the year. A Key forward who's value dropped upon Collingwood's obsession (rightly or wrongly) with having a Leigh Brown type role player. Do we know that the Leroy Brown Player (which served them well in 2010) is even valuable now? Footy is an ever changing game. On top of this, he's nabbed an exceptionally highly rated junior KP monster who will have 12 months at the club to train and get to know the game plan / teammates etc. and come 2014 will be rady made round 1.

On the topic of Key Forwards - when Mitch went down - we lost our ONLY avenue to goal and had to swing the likes of Garland / Rivers up forward, despite their natural instincts being as Key Defenders / 3rd tall.

Leadership and Experience - We've done the rebuild with kids thing, and that put us in an even bigger hole than we were already in. It's been a disaster, a monumental failure. No matter which way you look at it. Now we need Leadership and Experience to come in, to help these young kids along their way. 2011 Mitch was bought in and has been HUGE in terms of leadership - don't discount that. Now, we have 2 proven, experienced Premiership Players coming in. Byrnes isn't a world beater, but he's got 2 premiership medallions around his neck, and will fulfill a role. His experience and leadership will be valuable. This goes for Dawes too. We will have his leadership, his premiership experience and from reports over the years he's a really level headed bloke. He and Clark will mentor Hogan along very nicely. Additionally, we have Viney coming in, well known for his desire and leadership. He will usher in a new generation of culture at the MFC.

Small Forwards - Byrnes will relish standing under Dawes and Clark (Dawes / Clark / Hogan in 2014). He's pacey, he has reasonable goal sense. He'll snag a few goals with a run through the midfield. Additionally, the recruitment of Barry SHOULD allow Aaron Davey to return to his natural position of defensive forward. No more Hollywooding up the half back / wing - that will be Barry and Bleases role now possibly.

Outside Run - We are sorely missing outside class. Barry / Byrnes / Blease should all now get stints and rotating through the midfield to accept the dish off

Midfielders Midfielders Midfielders - The catch cry of many on here, now we have snagged 2 top 5 mids (Viney and perhaps Wines?) to complement what is actually the nucleus of a reasonable midfield. Jones, Trengove, Grimes, McKenzie, Sylvia, Bail has more potential than perhaps they showed this year. With someone to dish off too, as well as virtually 2 new recruits in Taggert and Tynan - this could become a dangerous midfield. Viney is primarily an inside mid, but he has more tricks up his sleeve than just grunt. A good bit of toe to break away from packs and nice disposal. He will set the tone with 1%'s - others will follow. His influence will be huge.

Additionally, the midfielders will grow in confidence when they look and and see Mitch with 1 defender on him instead of 3 and another big target in Dawes.

Dawes may have had an ordinary season - but he's big, he presents as a target and should hopefully be over the worst of the badly broken knuckle / finger he had that many collingwood supporters claimed to hinder his marking ability.

The ship is on the right path and we now need to soak it up and enjoy the ride. We are becoming a professional club, despite what those on the outside might think. 20 was right for Dawes, the swapping of later picks means nothing (we probably won't be using late picks in the draft anyway)

What really irks me is "our draft picks have been crap" then in the next breath "how could we trade pick 20 for a proven premiership player when we could've drafted a star?"

Well, if our draft picks are duds, what makes people so sure in a draft that drops off after about pick 15 that we'd pick up anyone of worth with 20?
 
Dawes will come out next year like a scorned wife whose abusive husband (Bucks) isnt their to play her out of position anymore and as a result Dawes pull out the mini skirt, cake on the make up and **** IT UP for us next year as he has something to prove. Those legs will be spread wide open and spilling out will be the juices of leadership, passion and hard work of which our players will hopefully absorb either orally or via osmosis and stand taller as a result.
This is one of the strangest, yet most entertaining paragraphs I've ever read on BF.
Love your work.
 
No chance of him being captain. I can't tell if you're taking the piss or not, but Grimes and Trenners are good leaders, sure they're still finding their feet but they'll only get better from the experience, if they couldn't handle the pressures of leadership they wouldn't be leaders. The best Dawes could hope for would be a spot in the leadership group. And I can only see that happening if Rivers leaves.

I wasn't taking the piss although I admit it's a stretch. Grimes seemed to handle the captaincy well. Trengrove seemed to struggle although that could be to do with other factors. It's also a big ask for guys to be captain of a club for 5+ years which would be the case if those 2 keep it for the rest of their careers. I'm just saying that he ticks all the boxes of a leader and face of the club. Neeld is also clearly a massive fan. I think he'll walk straight in to the leadership group and wouldn't be surprised if he's captain within a couple of years. I know he was earmarked as a potential future captain at Collingwood so it wouldn't be a great surprise.
 

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Rory Taggert really excites me - kid has a lot of ability, I think he may be one of those kids who just needs the proper guidance and regime to really explode.

His third game of VFL footy after missing out on the majority of pre-season work should be testimony of that.
 
Like the past 7 years?

Mitch has played a handful of games - dont get too excited. Yes he was fantastic for us but has the same injury as trent Croad I'm led to believe...............

Why have we recruited other teams duds?
Just like Sydney. Mattner, Grundy, Shaw, Richards, McGlynn are all, to use your term, "other teams duds". But they fit into the structure of the team, which is what building a team is about.

Byrnes and Dawes were both highly regarded by their former clubs, and bring much needed leadership to the club.

Did you notice that there wasn't a huge number of clubs interested in Goddard? He's a really good footballer, but he doesn't have a defined position, so at $800k pa, he doesn't adddress a need for most clubs.
 
Just like Sydney. Mattner, Grundy, Shaw, Richards, McGlynn are all, to use your term, "other teams duds". But they fit into the structure of the team, which is what building a team is about.

Byrnes and Dawes were both highly regarded by their former clubs, and bring much needed leadership to the club.

Did you notice that there wasn't a huge number of clubs interested in Goddard? He's a really good footballer, but he doesn't have a defined position, so at $800k pa, he doesn't adddress a need for most clubs.

Wanting to talk about players who dine of a season or two, look no further than Goddard

Played under his capabilities for 5 years, had two cracking years under a great tactician, whilst surrounded by a large number of guns and champions, playing what's regarded as the easiest position on the ground then back to ordinary for another year

$800k....for that? No thanks
 
I believe a number of factors contributed to Dawes' bad year, his relationship with Bucks after being told to play out of position (even 20%ish of game time out of position can upset your rhythm as a player, rarely can full time FWDs play the RUCK/FWD role well) and also his hand injury last year may have caused a lack of confidence.

IMO, a lot of the hard work Malthouse put into building Dawes up as a footballer was undone this year. You rightly mention how he was played but his confidence went to complete sh1t. (To me) he looks like a player who was stripped bare by Buckley as the year went on wrt his confidence. IMO he won't be the last player to fall from grace under Buckley. I'm not defending Dawes' form this year but there will be future scapegoats year in year out. I don't see Buckley as the type who takes responsibility for failure.

Dawes has been dishonored by Collingwood, make no mistake in that. He stayed with them for WAY unders when he signed his last contract with them.

Dawes will come out next year like a scorned wife ...

Agreed. He'll be in a good spot with Neeld and Brown as coaches and fundamentally he sounds like a good bloke. Good money will give him peace of mind and he'll want to show the world he isn't the player we saw at the end of 2012.

My second point is that YES, i believe we paid overs for Dawes, a player that is dropped from a finals bound team in the late rounds and is being pushed out by that same club is NOT worth a first round pick let alone and late swap as well HOWEVER due our need for another forward and clubs like WB and GWS (to an extent) pushing his value up thats what we had to pay. As we don't have a proper recruiter i think its good move to get rid of some of our picks for proven players.

Sound reasoning.

For teams like Collingwood and Geelong who have good recruitment teams and good development systems picks from 11-40 are absolute GOLD. They can turn them into anything.

Collingwood will kill this draft with 3 1st round picks within a cluster of 4 and what they will do with those kids is ominous for the comp, no question.

Thus this leads me to my last point, that Collingwood are the massive winners, not only out of this trade but the whole FA/Trade period:

For sure, the only thing I'll say is that there has been a misguided criticism of us on BF due to how Collingwood has gained. Collingwoods's gain is not paramount to an equal loss to us. For many reasons (some you have picked up on) this trade advantages us in ways average oppo supporters don't care to acknowledge. Also you can only trade with the picks you have and Dawes was a priority for us.
 
We are far too accomodating as a football club. Neeld on the right track moving Moloney, Green on etc, but to pick up a player that seriously, was worse than woeful in 2012, has the alarm bells sounding.
I hope I'm wrong, but can't see it unless Dawes form takes a miraculous u-turn.

Dawes and Byrnes focal points of out 2013 attack????

Wowee.
Mitch Clark? Howe?
 
Am I wrong? how are we to know that Carlton didn't show interest in Dawes?
Cause the club had said they haven't shown interest and had not approached his manager. Also the only reports that linked us to Dawes was saying that Dawes' preference is Carlton...
 
"For the boys in the midfield, like (Jack) Grimes and (Jack) Trengove and (Nathan) Jones, to look up and see two big targets, that's the way we want to play.''

And there you have it. From here
 
You know your club's on the up when opposition posters can't stop talking about your players/trades/list/club etc.

:):thumbsu:

Come 2014/15 and they won't be able to shut up.
 
I wasn't taking the piss although I admit it's a stretch. Grimes seemed to handle the captaincy well. Trengrove seemed to struggle although that could be to do with other factors. It's also a big ask for guys to be captain of a club for 5+ years which would be the case if those 2 keep it for the rest of their careers. I'm just saying that he ticks all the boxes of a leader and face of the club. Neeld is also clearly a massive fan. I think he'll walk straight in to the leadership group and wouldn't be surprised if he's captain within a couple of years. I know he was earmarked as a potential future captain at Collingwood so it wouldn't be a great surprise.

I'm a fan of long-term captains to be honest. Worked for Wayne Carey (well, until he ****ed his teammates wife) I see Selwood as being a long term captain as he's young and looks the goods :p. These guys are still young and I think the theory is that they're leading the guys who are about their age so it would make them easier to get on with. It did shake things up initially I admit but it also showed how little faith Neeld had in our senior guys. I can't really see him as being captain because it seems a bit out of place. I thought it was pretty clear that giving it to Trenners and Grimes would be a long term thing. Plus in pretty much every interview with every coach at the club they always seem adament they are the right blokes for the job.
 

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Cause the club had said they haven't shown interest and had not approached his manager. Also the only reports that linked us to Dawes was saying that Dawes' preference is Carlton...
Yeah 'cause everyone should believe what Carlton says. Any believability went out the door with Carlton saying it hadn't spoken to Mick Malthouse until the week after (or whenever it was) Ratten was sacked.
 
Yeah 'cause everyone should believe what Carlton says. Any believability went out the door with Carlton saying it hadn't spoken to Mick Malthouse until the week after (or whenever it was) Ratten was sacked.

Think the believability went out the door long before then......
 
Cause the club had said they haven't shown interest and had not approached his manager. Also the only reports that linked us to Dawes was saying that Dawes' preference is Carlton...

Only one article I read said that Carlton was his preference, but there were other articles linking him with Carlton....At the end of the day it doesn't matter where he wanted to go or who was chasing him, only matter where he ended up.
 
Yeah 'cause everyone should believe what Carlton says. Any believability went out the door with Carlton saying it hadn't spoken to Mick Malthouse until the week after (or whenever it was) Ratten was sacked.
So you are saying because a couple of journos once said "it is believed Carlton are also interested" in which is pure guess based on our needs/Malthouse factor, we need to shut up and believe what they say?

Greg Denham said there was no truth in it at all having spoken to both Carlton and Dawes manager.

Regarding Malthouse, I believe the club when they said they never spoke. What Malthouse was saying in public was clear as daylight and Carlton just read between the lines. Shit like, I will only coach if it's next year. I don't want to coach a team who are at the bottom. etc.

Anyways, I came on here to see how the Dees supporters are reacting to the Dawes trade and apart from the odd local, most seem satisfied which is good to see.

I think he is a good get because he has shown he can be a premiership KPP. Dawes' woes last year were Cloke's woes. As Cloke was down on form, pressure built on Dawes. He has shown he can play and with Clarke there (who I rate a better team player than Cloke) then I think Dawes will flourish.

It's not like Melb aren't going to pick up kids and have Viney to come in.
 
Mitch Clark? Howe?
This is one out of left field, but how would Morton go up forward? Particular now with some big timber down there, he is a good overhead mark and has a huge engine and speed.

Watts could hold down a 3rd tall position in the back line and smash other sides on the rebound as he was starting to show this year.

Just a thought..
 
So you are saying because a couple of journos once said "it is believed Carlton are also interested" in which is pure guess based on our needs/Malthouse factor, we need to shut up and believe what they say?

Greg Denham said there was no truth in it at all having spoken to both Carlton and Dawes manager.

Regarding Malthouse, I believe the club when they said they never spoke. What Malthouse was saying in public was clear as daylight and Carlton just read between the lines. Shit like, I will only coach if it's next year. I don't want to coach a team who are at the bottom. etc.

Anyways, I came on here to see how the Dees supporters are reacting to the Dawes trade and apart from the odd local, most seem satisfied which is good to see.

I think he is a good get because he has shown he can be a premiership KPP. Dawes' woes last year were Cloke's woes. As Cloke was down on form, pressure built on Dawes. He has shown he can play and with Clarke there (who I rate a better team player than Cloke) then I think Dawes will flourish.

It's not like Melb aren't going to pick up kids and have Viney to come in.
I'm not saying we should believe journalists, just that we shouldn't necessarily believe Carlton. Good points in your last paragraph though.
 
At least we gave Collingwood pick 20 for something we actually need

WC gave them pick 17 for a surplus mid who'd be behind a number of their midfielders

Where's the howling criticism agains WC?

You guys need another crab running around for your club like you need another Cale Morton.

Wellinghams season next year will be at least 300% better than Dawes, bookmark it.
 
So you are saying because a couple of journos once said "it is believed Carlton are also interested" in which is pure guess based on our needs/Malthouse factor, we need to shut up and believe what they say?

Greg Denham said there was no truth in it at all having spoken to both Carlton and Dawes manager.

Regarding Malthouse, I believe the club when they said they never spoke. What Malthouse was saying in public was clear as daylight and Carlton just read between the lines. Shit like, I will only coach if it's next year. I don't want to coach a team who are at the bottom. etc.

Anyways, I came on here to see how the Dees supporters are reacting to the Dawes trade and apart from the odd local, most seem satisfied which is good to see.

I think he is a good get because he has shown he can be a premiership KPP. Dawes' woes last year were Cloke's woes. As Cloke was down on form, pressure built on Dawes. He has shown he can play and with Clarke there (who I rate a better team player than Cloke) then I think Dawes will flourish.

It's not like Melb aren't going to pick up kids and have Viney to come in.

Denham is a paid troll, wouldn't believe a word that he says

Re the rest of your post, despite what the Main Board and opposition fans say, I'm wrapt we got Dawes

I wanted him last year when we targetted him, and now we have Clark and Dawes...so very happy.

We have enough kids as is on the list, with Viney / Pick 4 / Barry and Hogan to come in.

People are saying we overspent, but the reality is:

We were seen to be overspending with Pick 12 on Clark
Hawthorn were seen to be overspending on Hale with pick 17 (?)
Hawthorn were seen to be overspending on Gibson (can't recall the picks)
All we had to offer was pick 20
Dogs were breathing down our neck with Pick 21

Re the salary IF it's $500k (which I doubt), so what? Who else on our list deserves it? Gysberts? Morton?

I want all of these so called MFC experts to tell me who should be getting the money
 
You guys need another crab running around for your club like you need another Cale Morton.

Wellinghams season next year will be at least 300% better than Dawes, bookmark it.
Done bruv.

What has Wellingham done, exactly?
 
You guys need another crab running around for your club like you need another Cale Morton.

Wellinghams season next year will be at least 300% better than Dawes, bookmark it.

Read between the lines with what I said

You have a GREAT midfield, and used pick 17 on a bloke who is probably surplus

We have ONE key forward, and needed another who has proven he can play KP role, and gave pick 20

Was not a knock on Wellingham, but he'd hardly be in your best 22 - best 25 maybe
 
This is one out of left field, but how would Morton go up forward? Particular now with some big timber down there, he is a good overhead mark and has a huge engine and speed.

Watts could hold down a 3rd tall position in the back line and smash other sides on the rebound as he was starting to show this year.

Just a thought..
Wouldn't mind seeing it. Give him a run of games there and he could grow into the position. Wouldn't be much chop in a contest/pack situation, but as a lead up target I think it could work. Playing in the one position should help his confidence too, just let him focus on that one role.
 

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