Demons vindicated

[Spartan]

Interesting point that one, his body was definitely ready made but were his footy smarts?

Naitanui was always a 'raw talent'. Compare elements of his game this year versus last year, especially his kicking and positioning, and while they are not 'elite' (yet ) there is obvious and considerable improvement.

In some aspects he has been a victim of his own performances.. people see what he can do (see Essendon x2, PA and even Hawthorn this year) and expect that from him week in week out.

People who believe footy smarts, positioning, etc can't be taught need to look at current examples with Cox and Sandilands being two of the obvious ones.

 

[Snowplough]

As a Melbourne supporter, this thread is like trying to compare two brand new prestige cars by looking at the specs, walking around the outside, listening to the motor running and driving them 100 metres down the street. When they've been taken for a good long drive, on some straight and windy roads, you'll be able to really compare the two. And when they've done a hundred thousand kilometres you'll be able to compare their full performance. Until then all I'm feeling is a lot of wind.

For what it's worth, based entirely on performance so far, the pick of the 2008 draft is probably neither Watts or Naitanui, it would be #3 Stephen Hill. That might not be the case in 3-4 years however when all the draftee's careers are more developed.

As for the Rising Star, I'm sure players like Scully and Trengove will have a bit to say about whether Naitanui is a lay-down misere.

 

[kfleong2000]

I actually rate Stephen Hill and am slightly jealous our rivals have him

Terrific awareness, great kicking skills, and of course pace to burn - he does have the occasional game where he is completely absent (a la Sydney on the weekend) but I suppose the Dockers don't mind as he will improve, both in terms of skills and consistency, and they still won when he was largely invisible.

At the moment, I think Rich, Hurley and Hill have shown the most tbh.

 

[saj_21]

Naitanui was always a 'raw talent'. Compare elements of his game this year versus last year, especially his kicking and positioning, and while they are not 'elite' (yet ) there is obvious and considerable improvement.

In some aspects he has been a victim of his own performances.. people see what he can do (see Essendon x2, PA and even Hawthorn this year) and expect that from him week in week out.

People who believe footy smarts, positioning, etc can't be taught need to look at current examples with Cox and Sandilands being two of the obvious ones.

I also notice a few threads appearing with a bit negativity towards Natia's performances and being labelled "overrated". I believe you and your fellow west coast supporters would prefer the media and in particular channel 7 commentators to leave him be.

I know last year i was sick of the Watts talk leading up to Queens Birthday, which is were the majority of the negativity towards Watts began.

 

[Spartan]

I also notice a few threads appearing with a bit negativity towards Natia's performances and being labelled "overrated". I believe you and your fellow west coast supporters would prefer the media and in particular channel 7 commentators to leave him be.

Definately, I would prefer that we just let him develop at his pace and stop putting unnecessary pressure on him.

I know last year i was sick of the Watts talk leading up to Queens Birthday, which is were the majority of the negativity towards Watts began.

From a WCE fan's POV, my 'negativity' towards Watts began on this board where a few Melbourne posters (flogs) started bagging Naitanui after his match winning effort against Hawthorn because the hype on suddenly on Nic and not on Watts.

I think both kids have great potential.. but surely based on performances at date Nic would be comfortably ahead at this stage.

 

[volders]

The Melbourne fans on this board need to remove their blinkers. Some of the comments in this thread are laughable. Last week he looked completely out of his depth. He plays one good game and suddenly he's a better player than the Fijian? Get your hand off it.

agree, according to melbourne supporters here our best 22 will be the AA 22 in 3 years time

 

[Furn]

Just on a side note.

Who do you guys think is currently the better player ?

Luke Hodge or Chris Judd ?

 

[Hannabal]

...but surely based on performances at date Nic would be comfortably ahead at this stage.

Not if you have 20/20 vision. Did you watch Melb v Port ? Those that have been to watch him train and have seen him at lower levels aren't surprised, but I can understand opposition supporters not understanding his talent due to a lack of exposure to him.

Watts' skills on both sides of his body, lateral movement, decision making, and clean hands (the guy just doesn't fumble) is phenomenal for a 196cm player. He's a scary prospect.

And no, to reiterate, I wouldn't trade any one of Watts, Scully, or Trengove for Naitanui.

 

[Demonheart]

I think both kids have great potential.. but surely based on performances at date Nic would be comfortably ahead at this stage.

Ahead yes, comfortably is debateable. What gets more interesting though is comparing them at the same age.
After 3 seasons in the system the age difference won't have a bearing but in their first couple it definitely does have a big impact.

 

[Weekend Hussler]

Why waste your time comparing a ruckman to a key forward? Completely different. So what if they were picks 1 and 2. Comparisons are absolutely ridiculous. Both players have their own characteristics and strengths.

 

[Demonheart]

Why waste your time comparing a ruckman to a key forward? Completely different. So what if they were picks 1 and 2. Comparisons are absolutely ridiculous. Both players have their own characteristics and strengths.

This is a football forum, these types of comparisons are always going to be made

 

[kfleong2000]

Not if you have 20/20 vision. Did you watch West Coast v Essendon? Those that have been to watch him train and have seen him at lower levels aren't surprised, but I can understand opposition supporters not understanding his talent due to a perception of the media overhyping him.

Naitanui's extreme athleticism, ability to extract the contested ball and win clearances, and his line-breaking ability (the guy was only slightly slower than Stephen Hill at draft camp) is phenomenal for a 200cm player. He's a scary prospect.

And no, to reiterate, I wouldn't trade any one of Watts, Scully, or Trengove for Naitanui.

efa

 

[Spartan]

Not if you have 20/20 vision. Did you watch Melb v Port ? Those that have been to watch him train and have seen him at lower levels aren't surprised, but I can understand opposition supporters not understanding his talent due to a lack of exposure to him.

Watts' skills on both sides of his body, lateral movement, decision making, and clean hands (the guy just doesn't fumble) is phenomenal for a 196cm player. He's a scary prospect.

And no, to reiterate, I wouldn't trade any one of Watts, Scully, or Trengove for Naitanui.

Naitanui has won a game off his own boot at AFL level, vs the Hawks last year kicking 3 goals in the rain.

Naitanui was listed in the game's best players in 3 or 4 out of 5 WCE wins to end last year.

Naitanui put on one of the most dominant displays from a young KPP/ruck over 4 quarters against Essendon in the pre-season.

Naitanui was in our best against Essendon (BOG), Port Adelaide (Eagles BOG) and Hawthorn this year.

.....

Watts did one or two nice things last year along with one or two not so nice things.

Watts has had two ok games this year showing glimpses against WCE and had a decent first half against Port Adelaide.

.....

Now who needs glasses?

 

[Jazzed]

Naita is overhyped no doubt, but does that make him less of a footballer?

He is quality and is already changing the outcome of matches. He has shown the potential to develop into a Sandilands type ruck; dominating clearances and contested ball. Eagles are being patient, so Cox is taking over the workload, hence his smaller impact recently.

Watt's looked great against us, but let's wait to see if he can back it up. Both of them are still years away from their prime so good times ahead!

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Naitanui has won a game off his own boot at AFL level, vs the Hawks last year kicking 3 goals in the rain.

Naitanui was listed in the game's best players in 3 or 4 out of 5 WCE wins to end last year.

Naitanui put on one of the most dominant displays from a young KPP/ruck over 4 quarters against Essendon in the pre-season.

Naitanui was in our best against Essendon (BOG), Port Adelaide (Eagles BOG) and Hawthorn this year.

.....

Watts did one or two nice things last year along with one or two not so nice things.

Watts has had two ok games this year showing glimpses against WCE and had a decent first half against Port Adelaide.

.....

Now who needs glasses?

No, you definately need glasses, since in your post you felt the need to argue that naitanui was better despite the fact that Hannabal did not actually state that watts was better.... why if naitanui is clearly better, would you feel the need to argue that without provocation?

i will concede that naitanui is ahead in performances, no doubt about that... but steven hill is even further in front of NN in performances as is daniel rich, but i will not be drawn into "who has the better skills" simply because they play completely different positions and in the 5 and 15 ish games each has played, you cannot make a creditable judgement

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Jack Watts will be the superior footballer when their careers are over. So will Hill and so will Rich for that matter though

Bookmark it

 

[kfleong2000]

No, you definately need glasses, since in your post you felt the need to argue that naitanui was better despite the fact that Hannabal did not actually state that watts was better.... why if naitanui is clearly better, would you feel the need to argue that without provocation?

i will concede that naitanui is ahead in performances, no doubt about that... but steven hill is even further in front of NN in performances as is daniel rich, but i will not be drawn into "who has the better skills" simply because they play completely different positions and in the 5 and 15 ish games each has played, you cannot make a creditable judgement

Your opinion in the second paragraph is spot on.

But with reference to the first paragraph, Hannabal was actually stating Watts was at least on a par if not better. Spartan asserted that NN was comfortably ahead of Watts at this stage, which Hannabel quoted and then in reply asserted 'Not if you have 20/20 vision', obviously implying Spartan was wrong in that assessment - hence the diatribe.

Apologies for the technical posting analysis.

 

[Quinz]

Interesting point that one, his body was definitely ready made but were his footy smarts? Whereas Watts has the footy smarts and just needs the body to go with it.

It seems to be that people are rewriting history (not you saj) when it comes to Naitanui being ready made compared to Watts who would take a few years.

Naitanui was absolutely not ready made, and most Eagles supporters weren't expecting him to play many games last year, if at all, especially after his knee injury early in the season.

He has surprised a lot in the way he has been able to influence games at his age and experience.

By the way, this thread is a ridiculous knee-jerk. Watts is not close to "leapfrogging" Naitanui on what they have shown at AFL level so far. Almost as bad as someone betting on NN to win the Brownlow after he tore up Essendon.

Ruckmen and Key Forwards are long term developers. Enjoy watching them play- I though Watts showed a bit against us last week, some strong marks against Schofield and kicking a few goals this week should be good for his confidence. And I'm stoked with NN's development.

 

[Snowplough]

FWIW, out of Watts, Naitanui, Hill and Rich, I reckon Rich is the weak link.

The other three have some x-factor that will develop further over time. Rich is a 'meat and potatoes' midfielder with a developed body and a laser-like left boot who will remain that for the rest of his career. Nowhere near as much upside as the other three. He'll probably play 200+ games, which would be a great return even if he was taken top 3, but he won't break games apart on his own.

I can see why he dropped to #7 and why Fremantle and West Coast let him slide given the alternatives they had (Naitanui and Hill).

 

[Hannabal]

Your opinion in the second paragraph is spot on.

But with reference to the first paragraph, Hannabal was actually stating Watts was at least on a par if not better. Spartan asserted that NN was comfortably ahead of Watts at this stage, which Hannabel quoted and then in reply asserted 'Not if you have 20/20 vision', obviously implying Spartan was wrong in that assessment - hence the diatribe.

It's pretty clear that one player is a sublime natural footballer and the other, whilst an amazing athlete, is an unnatural footballer. I saw it before the draft and I see it now. Funnily enough, the natural footballer is quicker than the amazing athlete with better lateral movement, as evidenced by testing, i.e. he's an "amazing athlete" too.

Guess which one I'd choose going forward ?

The following sums up Naita's career to date: does nothing for 3 quarters against Hawthorn and then has a purple patch that wins the game; does nothing for the next two games; does a great pick up off his own ruck contest, bursts through the middle, facilitates a goal and has the commentators in awe and then proceeds to do nothing for the rest of the game; does nothing for the next two games; has a purple patch in his next game leaving supporters fapping and then goes quiet; rinse and repeat.

Rinse and repeat.

He's not a "footballer".

Now all West Coast supporters think that one day he'll be able to do these things for most of the game, but I disagree. His skills are average to poor and he'll never be a "natural footballer". It will always be his achilles heel.

 

[kfleong2000]

I find it hard to believe you're not trolling now when you say he's not a footballer.

Can someone be that dense and exhibit such an inferiority complex? Honestly.

 

[ziad]

This is a football forum, these types of comparisons are always going to be made

intelligent ones, but they why start now

 

[kfleong2000]

And I find it amusing you used lateral movement twice in the same post and have to back it up via 'testing', and impliedly refer to watching Jackie at lower levels - if you watched NN at lower levels you would undoubtedly be impressed too.

Or dismiss him to simply being taller than his opponents and being black, I dunno.

 

[Ochre]

The following sums up Naita's career to date: does nothing for 3 quarters against Hawthorn and then has a purple patch that wins the game; does nothing for the next two games; does a great pick up off his own ruck contest, bursts through the middle, facilitates a goal and has the commentators in awe and then proceeds to do nothing for the rest of the game; does nothing for the next two games; has a purple patch in his next game leaving supporters fapping and then goes quiet; rinse and repeat.

This sums up Watts career to date: Does nothing, does nothing, does nothing, kicks two goals in a quarter then does nothing for the rest of the match

 

[eagles rule]

yeah play scott thompson or brian lake or scarlett on watts and see how he goes .