Play Nice Derailed, (The Place to Continue Off-Topic Discussion)

[The Royal Sampler]

This happened today in the lead-in to an NFL game between Kansas City and Denver. Former NFL wide receiver and current media analyst Steve Smith was absolutely savage in his (potentially quite well-founded) criticism of Broncos wide receiver Jerry Jeudy.

Imagine this in the AFL coverage!

 

[gouki88]

This happened today in the lead-in to an NFL game between Kansas City and Denver. Former NFL wide receiver and current media analyst Steve Smith was absolutely savage in his (potentially quite well-founded) criticism of Broncos wide receiver Jerry Jeudy.

Imagine this in the AFL coverage!

Love #89

 

[sr36]

Thanks Vinnie. I appreciate the additional information. Without wanting to be a pedant, the original drafting of the constitution took about ten years and involved numerous bi-partisan conventions. This referendum process has not included any bi-partisan discussion.

Libs refused to participate. They're basically not going to do bi-partisan as they don't want to support something successful that will be attributed to a sitting labour government. That's the ultimate deal blocker to constitutional reform.

 

[No SPIN]

No spin. Did you correct them by giving the detail or by explaining that detail is not required?

I think you’re right about the no voters. The ones I know don’t seem overly strong on it.

Explained, by giving them examples of why detail is not required.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think we should have a referendum on no more:

Farmers Federation voice
Mining Interests voice
Environmentalist voice
GP's or Pharmacy groups voice
Banking voice
Labour Unions voice, or other 'special interest groups'
as they are too divisive.
In fact bar all lobby groups.

Am I doing it right?

You make a good point , we don’t need constitutional change to have lobby groups

 

[jmac70]

Just voted and got my sausage.

 

[gouki88]

You make a good point , we don’t need constitutional change to have lobby groups

More status quo for you Timmy?

 

[doofdoof]

Libs refused to participate. They're basically not going to do bi-partisan as they don't want to support something successful that will be attributed to a sitting labour government. That's the ultimate deal blocker to constitutional reform.

Definitely how Albo will spin it.

Politicians are great at blaming others, but not so good at looking inward and admitting their own mistakes.

It is true that it is the ultimate deal blocker, which is why he should have done far more to bring the Libs on board. They were wavering early on and Albo could have politically hamstrung them if he said "We'll listen to all your concerns and consider changes to the wording".

Instead he put up a brick wall and said "We are not changing anything. No compromise!".

Frankly, he should have held the referendum next year and held a constitutional convention this year.

The chance of passing would have increased significantly.

 

[gouki88]

Definitely how Albo will spin it.

Politicians are great at blaming others, but not so good at looking inward and admitting their own mistakes.

It is true that it is the ultimate deal blocker, which is why he should have done far more to bring the Libs on board. They were wavering early on and Albo could have politically hamstrung them if he said "We'll listen to all your concerns and consider changes to the wording".

Instead he put up a brick wall and said "We are not changing anything. No compromise!".

Frankly, he should have held the referendum next year and held a constitutional convention this year.

The chance of passing would have increased significantly.

Do you genuinely believe Dutton would have allowed a bipartisan process?

 

[jathanas]

Definitely how Albo will spin it.

Politicians are great at blaming others, but not so good at looking inward and admitting their own mistakes.

It is true that it is the ultimate deal blocker, which is why he should have done far more to bring the Libs on board. They were wavering early on and Albo could have politically hamstrung them if he said "We'll listen to all your concerns and consider changes to the wording".

Instead he put up a brick wall and said "We are not changing anything. No compromise!".

Frankly, he should have held the referendum next year and held a constitutional convention this year.

The chance of passing would have increased significantly.

I don't understand why some will allow Albo a free-pass if the Voice doesn't get through. There were several ways he could have increased support / managed resistance of which he did exactly zero. Made it too easy for Dutton the wrecker.

 

[sr36]

Definitely how Albo will spin it.

Politicians are great at blaming others, but not so good at looking inward and admitting their own mistakes.

It is true that it is the ultimate deal blocker, which is why he should have done far more to bring the Libs on board. They were wavering early on and Albo could have politically hamstrung them if he said "We'll listen to all your concerns and consider changes to the wording".

Instead he put up a brick wall and said "We are not changing anything. No compromise!".

Frankly, he should have held the referendum next year and held a constitutional convention this year.

The chance of passing would have increased significantly.

He stuffed up. He assumed the Libs would eventually say yes, as they would have if the current Libs actually stood for something rather than simply standing in opposition.

He overestimated the Libs and underestimated how Trumpable Australian politics is with swathes of voters being swayed by misinformation.

 

[neilk]

Andrew Denton used to say "I love elections - every three years I get the chance to steal a pencil"

The guy was a genius.

 

[manicpie]

He stuffed up. He assumed the Libs would eventually say yes, as they would have if the current Libs actually stood for something rather than simply standing in opposition.

He overestimated the Libs and underestimated how Trumpable Australian politics is with swathes of voters being swayed by misinformation.

I wish Albo would do something about the Price of fuel, groceries, gas, electricity, land tax and every other thing that's make it hard for even a self funded retiree from Werribee. Sooner or later he's going to have to turn up for work.

 

[gerryg400]

He stuffed up. He assumed the Libs would eventually say yes, as they would have if the current Libs actually stood for something rather than simply standing in opposition.

He overestimated the Libs and underestimated how Trumpable Australian politics is with swathes of voters being swayed by misinformation.

If there’s not enough actual information then misinformation can be used to fill the void.
This change to the constitution should be a no-brainer but somehow we’ve reached a point where, reportedly, only about 60-70% of Indigenous Australians believe in it. I have my fingers crossed but the result may be embarrassing.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

More status quo for you Timmy?

I won’t be releasing details

 

[sr36]

If there’s not enough actual information then misinformation can be used to fill the void.
This change to the constitution should be a no-brainer but somehow we’ve reached a point where, reportedly, only about 60-70% of Indigenous Australians believe in it. I have my fingers crossed but the result may be embarrassing.

Yes "reportedly" sums up my point.

There isn't extra information. The details you seek would have changed over time and with different governments. You're not voting on the details - that's for federal elections.

 

[sr36]

I wish Albo would do something about the Price of fuel, groceries, gas, electricity, land tax and every other thing that's make it hard for even a self funded retiree from Werribee. Sooner or later he's going to have to turn up for work.

Bloody baby boomer retirees complaining when it's younger workers with mortgages being smashed with interest rates in an attempt to keep you bathing in affordable milk and honey. You might have to dilute the baths with a bit of Werribee water.

 

[gerryg400]

Yes "reportedly" sums up my point.

There isn't extra information. The details you seek would have changed over time and with different governments. You're not voting on the details - that's for federal elections.

I'm not seeking details, I have a broad trust in our governmental processes and have voted yes. Not everybody is like me. There was a call for details and when few were provided it was easy for others to step in and create their own 'details'.

There could be extra information if the Government wanted. They could have provided the detail of how the first implementation of the Voice would look. Why did they not do that?

Hopefully they will implement it anyway.

 

[JB1975]

I'll head off soon and vote 'Yes'.

Lost cause.

The 'Yes' campaign is the most botched political effort I can recall. Rushed, no preliminary work, no clear narrative. Albo is a bit of a dud.

I've never seen such a shameless campaign of misinformation, but the half-arsed 'Yes' campaign is the original sin: it is that which has allowed so much s*** to stick to the wall.

Indigenous people the big losers, again. Albo, take a bow.

 

[manicpie]

Bloody baby boomer retirees complaining when it's younger workers with mortgages being smashed with interest rates in an attempt to keep you bathing in affordable milk and honey. You might have to dilute the baths with a bit of Werribee water.

If you walk around Werribee you'll see heaps of crack heads riding around on pushbikes at 60KPM, they pee in the water in werribee, that's mean fonzie

 

[sr36]

I'm not seeking details, I have a broad trust in our governmental processes and have voted yes. Not everybody is like me. There was a call for details and when few were provided it was easy for others to step in and create their own 'details'.

There could be extra information if the Government wanted. They could have provided the detail of how the first implementation of the Voice would look. Why did they not do that?

Hopefully they will implement it anyway.

They didn't do it because they didn't want to split the yes vote like what happened with the republic referendum years ago.

It would have created no voters out of people who had a different preferred model for the voices initial model.

Ultimately, they needed to get the Libs on board and shouldn't have taken it to a referendum without that. I don't think it was possible to get the Libs on board though, so they should have worn a broken electorate promise.

 

[jathanas]

They didn't do it because they didn't want to split the yes vote like what happened with the republic referendum years ago.

It would have created no voters out of people who had a different preferred model for the voices initial model.

Ultimately, they needed to get the Libs on board and shouldn't have taken it to a referendum without that. I don't think it was possible to get the Libs on board though, so they should have worn a broken electorate promise.

You're using a broad brush wrt splitting the yes vote, mate. The republic referendum was undermined by Howard and he planted the seeds to ensure it failed.

This is different.

People wanted more clarity* which should have been made a priority, instead they got a Farnham song.

This is a bad outcome for Australia which in my eyes is a shining beacon for multiculturalism. It reflects poorly on both sides of the divide.

* Arguing that the initiative was doomed because of the disinformation spread by the No camp is disingenuous/lazy because it should have been easy to refute.

 

[windchimes]

I went and did my yes vote this morning, and I get the feeling my electorate in the 'People's Republic' of Merri-bek will be a yes vote stronghold, but unfortunately outside of Victoria we can likely expect the Yes vote will be extremely underwhelming.

I'm astounded at the extent that ALP can consistently dick around and fail to deliver, how have they managed to underwhelm throughout this campaign so badly?

 

[sr36]

You're using a broad brush wrt splitting the yes vote, mate. The republic referendum was undermined by Howard and he planted the seeds to ensure it failed.

This is different.

People wanted more clarity* which should have been made a priority, instead they got a Farnham song.

This is a bad outcome for Australia which in my eyes is a shining beacon for multiculturalism. It reflects poorly on both sides of the divide.

* Arguing that the initiative was doomed because of the disinformation spread by the No camp is disingenuous because it should have been easy to refute.

The republic vote flopped partly because it wasn't bi-partisan, but also because of fighting between republicans over the preferred model.

With this one, one of the big bullets of the no campaign was finding the occasional aboriginal who didn't support the yes vote, those numbers would have increased exponentially if there was first a campaign for different models for the voice. There would have been widespread criticism of whatever model was chosen. Details were an unwinnable option.

They got cocky with the initial polling and assumed the Libs would be forced to fall in line. It was that simple.

Once it wasn't bi-partisan, where I think the campaign stuffed up is not addressing the multiculturalism angle, which is the issue for the non-welded on lib or non-idiot misinformation swinging no voters.

 

[sr36]

I went and did my yes vote this morning, and I get the feeling my electorate in the 'People's Republic' of Merri-bek will be a yes vote stronghold, but unfortunately outside of Victoria we can likely expect the Yes vote will be extremely underwhelming.

I'm astounded at the extent that ALP can consistently dick around and fail to deliver, how have they managed to underwhelm throughout this campaign so badly?

I voted at a church in an old money Adelaide booth. Had a sad chuckle at those handing out how to vote cards. 4 no voters to 1 yes voter. The no voters looked normal and representative. The yes campaigner was a very unattractive caricature of a left wing social misfit who will probably swing some votes to no.