Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies

[Drought Break]

We have finished 2nd, 3rd/4th and 5th/6th over the past 3 years.... we have a great list.

Hine is one of the best talent ID recruiters in the country, hardly to blame for the sides ball moment and constant injury problems.

I have seen plenty on here call out Hine - yes, some list management decisions were questionable when he was in that role, but he has proven to be an incredible talent identifier, time and time again. The only significant blemish on his record is the Scharenberg/Freeman draft, both of which were injury, not talent failures.

Not picking Riccardi when he was there for the taking is up there. As well as not drafting a key forward for the last 10 years where there is a clear obvious need for one.

 

[lenny&carl]

I am taking it seriously. We are a player or two short of contending. Injuries have not helped..

Yeah a Dangerfield and a Lockett.

 

[Doc1763]

Most of what you're saying is obvious in what will happen. Don't know about Sanderson or Harvey though, and I doubt they're the problem..

We need to get rid of plenty of deadwood. Including Cox , Lynch, Cameron..look at trading one or two stars as well. I would not be giving DeGoey big coin just yet.. trade him if he or his dad do not come to terms.

Yep, great idea, let get rid of ALL THREE back-up ruckmen in one big purge.

May as well just change Grundy's name to Fraser and be done with it.

 

[Markfs]

maybe we need to install derek as head of football..

 

[jackcass]

Mature age players as KPP depth likeDunn or Roughead or a Ben Hudson is fine. Recruiting broken body 32 year old midfielders like Wells to a 3 year deal was something else.

It was obvious half way through last year that Varcoe was past his best. And Reid has been cooked for years.

Big difference between having an older player in the list as emergency depth and playing them (in the home and away season) over kids like Bianco and Rantall.

Varcoe should not have played 9 games this year. And we’ll be saying the same thing about Mayne next year when he is past his best but the coach refuses to concede that and give another kid a go

I’m always a strong advocate for patience and building through the draft but Wells was coming off a 18-19 game season and we desperately needed to replace Swan after his premature retirement. I’m not aware of other options around at the time, especially for as low as the $500k we reportedly paid Wells. It’s easy in hindsight to say it didn’t work but we saw in those few games he did play that if it had of gone differently then he would have gone someway to meeting the need he was recruited to fill.

 

[SwanBet]

Amazing that you think with that record makes him one of the best, we had one lucky year and this year highlights how weak our list really is. We are vulnerable to injuries unlike Richmond. Our list is nowhere near good enough to dominate a league, and we will always end up in the middle or with a good year slightly higher.

Also Freeman would never have made it, injury or not.

You nuffy.... You're kidding right? No other side that finished ahead of us were missing any of their top 5-10 players for the finals campaign. We were missing 2 of our top 5 players. Not only for the finals series, but virtually the entire season. One due to the birth of a child and the other due to an impact injury.... These were not soft tissue injuries or players 'vulnerable' to injury.

Yes, we have had our issues with injuries and with the game plan, but we are certainly not lacking for talent.

 

[jackcass]

Amazing that you think with that record makes him one of the best, we had one lucky year and this year highlights how weak our list really is. We are vulnerable to injuries unlike Richmond. Our list is nowhere near good enough to dominate a league, and we will always end up in the middle or with a good year slightly higher.

Also Freeman would never have made it, injury or not.

Hines record in talent identification speaks for itself. I think you’re confusing list management with drafting.

 

[Anzacday]

but Wells was coming off a 18-19 game season and we desperately needed to replace Swan after his premature retirement.

Interestingly, Wells was brought in to fix our delivery to our forward line, (he and Pendles were racked 1 & 2 for efficiency at the time).

Hines record in talent identification speaks for itself.

Given the forward entries are still an issue, he’s clearly identifying the wrong skill set.

 

[loki04]

The window is a load of sh*t, as the Cats and Sydney have shown.

So long as you have a good age profile overall, you can easily top up quickly. Especially if you are near the top. You get a finals/flag discount on players.

How many flags Sydney win after 06? They also benefited from extra cap space and Academy players keeping low end talent coming through.

Geelong also havent won anything since the 3 flag side and its best players are still remnants from that as well as top 2-3 player in league who chose them in Dangerfield.

 

[loki04]

Interestingly, Wells was brought in to fix our delivery to our forward line, (he and Pendles were racked 1 & 2 for efficiency at the time).

Given the forward entries are still an issue, he’s clearly identifying the wrong skill set.

I think overall he is a top recruiter but has his own issues in talent id namely KPF, Xfactor small crumbing types and pacey outside types with elite skills who arent softer then fairy floss.

Still i think you would be brave or stupid to let him go.

 

[manicpie]

I think overall he is a top recruiter but has his own issues in talent id namely KPF, Xfactor small crumbing types and pacey outside types with elite skills who arent softer then fairy floss.

Still i think you would be brave or stupid to let him go.

His Resume doesn't sound good if he claims to be a top recruiter but his deficiencies are, Can't find KPF, Xfactor and pacy outside types, I wouldn't give him the job

 

[jackcass]

Interestingly, Wells was brought in to fix our delivery to our forward line, (he and Pendles were racked 1 & 2 for efficiency at the time).

Given the forward entries are still an issue, he’s clearly identifying the wrong skill set.

But is that primarily on the players he's identified and drafted, or those traded through list management? Without going through and ranking the use of footy by foot skill of the players I'd have thought that the draftees as a cohort would be higher ranked than the tradees. It does get some overlap as he was doing both roles for a few years.

 

[jackcass]

I think overall he is a top recruiter but has his own issues in talent id namely KPF, Xfactor small crumbing types and pacey outside types with elite skills who arent softer then fairy floss.

Still i think you would be brave or stupid to let him go.

Again, I'm not sure if that's necessarily a talent id issue or a combination of list management and Hines own faith in his draftees. For example, list management says we're trading in Cameron as a key forward/ruck to add to the development types we've already got so we don't need either of those at the draft. Hines faith has belief that A2B2 can be the small forward we crave and we have Cal Brown through his transition to the midfield so we don't need 1 of those.

 

[MarkT2]

Our best 22 is nearly good enough. Our next 10 players are not close, bar a few youngsters who might make it and even then a lot of other teams have more kids coming through because we have sold draft picks.

Free agency is our potential wild card but without cap space that's very tricky.

Hine needs to nail the next draft and we need to exit the right players to open some cap space.

 

[loki04]

Again, I'm not sure if that's necessarily a talent id issue or a combination of list management and Hines own faith in his draftees. For example, list management says we're trading in Cameron as a key forward/ruck to add to the development types we've already got so we don't need either of those at the draft. Hines faith has belief that A2B2 can be the small forward we crave and we have Cal Brown through his transition to the midfield so we don't need 1 of those.

Maybe, it also could be his vision on what a 22 needs to be a success stopping him from recruiting those types.

Ie a Leon Davis type crumber, see's a heap of small xfactor crumbers struggle GF day, maybe doesn't rate them and prefers your dour defensive fwd (Blair JT C.Brown etc).

Ditto with traditional style KPF maybe thinks a role player like Ash Hansen is all you need rather then a Josh Kennedy...Buckley seems to think so. Hine seems to think they are low value picks with high end draft picks.

 

[jackcass]

Maybe, it also could be his vision on what a 22 needs to be a success stopping him from recruiting those types.

Ie a Leon Davis type crumber, see's a heap of small xfactor crumbers struggle GF day, maybe doesn't rate them and prefers your dour defensive fwd (Blair JT C.Brown etc).

Ditto with traditional style KPF maybe thinks a role player like Ash Hansen is all you need rather then a Josh Kennedy...Buckley seems to think so. Hine seems to think they are low value picks with high end draft picks.

Probably some combination of all of that.

 

[No SPIN]

Amazing that you think with that record makes him one of the best, we had one lucky year and this year highlights how weak our list really is. We are vulnerable to injuries unlike Richmond. Our list is nowhere near good enough to dominate a league, and we will always end up in the middle or with a good year slightly higher.

Also Freeman would never have made it, injury or not.

Rich has only beaten us once in the last 4 games. Geel has beaten once in the last 3. We beat WC at home against all the odds. They don’t give away Top 4, PF and GF spots - a team earns them.

We are therefore much better than the middle of the road team you think.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Rich has only beaten us once in the last 4 games. Geel has beaten once in the last 3. We beat WC at home against all the odds. They don’t give away Top 4, PF and GF spots - a team earns them.

We are therefore much better than the middle of the road team you think.

What do we have to show for our record against those clubs?

2nd, 4th, 6th finishes over the last 3 years.

What do we get for that, anyone know?

 

[manicpie]

Rich has only beaten us once in the last 4 games. Geel has beaten once in the last 3. We beat WC at home against all the odds. They don’t give away Top 4, PF and GF spots - a team earns them.

We are therefore much better than the middle of the road team you think.

We are a top 8 side but not the the top half where it counts. Richmond won the flag and Geelong obliterated us when it counts, H&A games mean nothing it's the crunch that counts and we need to get much better

 

[pablo disco bar]

Cannot believe Richmond have done what we can only dream of..

 

[No SPIN]

What do we have to show for our record against those clubs?

2nd, 4th, 6th finishes over the last 3 years.

What do we get for that, anyone know?

what do you get for ignoring these facts and downplaying the quality of our group - facts are facts, the added emotional, and irrational baggage of peoples disappointment, doesn’t change the facts.

 

[loki04]

Not all of it is on recruitment either, there is also the development of players once in the system and playing them in their best roles to maximise the production.

In 2010 we were widely known to be league leaders in youth development. whilst I still think we are going ok here I don't think we are leading the league in it.


Also an evident thing from last night is how strong bodied both teams were across the ground, yes there is the odd skinny body but they tend to crack in like S.Bolton (despite his frame regularly cracks in take note stepho) or have manic defensive pressure.

 

[AndrewShawble]

what do you get for ignoring these facts and downplaying the quality of our group - facts are facts, the added emotional, and irrational baggage of peoples disappointment, doesn’t change the facts.

This pies side is a solid group.

Have a look at the CFC history of finals played, GF’s made. We have a record unmatched by any club of getting average sides deep into September.

We need some more bite to be able to go on a run and emulate something that Richmond are currently doing, a dynasty.

I’m not saying this team is crap, because it isn’t. It’s a solid team. Being a solid team counts for nothing where it matters though.

 

[loki04]

what do you get for ignoring these facts and downplaying the quality of our group - facts are facts, the added emotional, and irrational baggage of peoples disappointment, doesn’t change the facts.

Which way is that trending to you Spinny?

Was 2018 the peak and we are heading down?

or are we there abouts and just need a tweak and some luck?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

We are on the same page brother.. I also like Cox. If a suitable trade was made for him or DeGoey I would not be as devastated as some folks here..

We need to get ruthless with our players and our trades.

Not that comfortable with the Grundy deal.. hope he lifts next year

Dustin Martin showed last night what a one million dollar player looks like in action.