Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies

[loki04]

yes - but they have a lot more.
Why are you concerned about rebuilds with only Sidey, Pendles and Howe as the only elites over 30yo in 2021?

Because you need succession in place before they drop off a cliff so the team doesn't. Also depends on how you rate the list, is it a flag or multi flag worthy list? is it only a middling list competing but maybe not quite there or only capable of "pinching one"?

Many reasons to look into the potential for a rebuild or "renovation" if you will over the next 2-3 years.

 

[No SPIN]

Because you need succession in place before they drop off a cliff so the team doesn't. Also depends on how you rate the list, is it a flag or multi flag worthy list? is it only a middling list competing but maybe not quite there or only capable of "pinching one"?

Many reasons to look into the potential for a rebuild or "renovation" if you will over the next 2-3 years.

So what sort of list do you think we have and when will we need a rebuild/renovation?

 

[loki04]

So what sort of list do you think we have and when will we need a rebuild/renovation?

Im in the pinch one basket for the current list, this is not a "dynasty" team or even a back to back side. I think its a good nucleus to build around Grundy Moore Degoey.

Not sure a full rebuild is needed with the profile we have but imo a good reno is definitely on the cards after 2021 or 22 at latest.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Go and compare that to the 30yo or over at Geel in 2021 - you’ll get a huge surprise.

And it showed last night
Intensity lifted to almost the level of a full game, and in light of the inability of Geelong to control the footy due to conditions and or pressure

No suprise they dropped away

 

[jackcass]

Not all of it is on recruitment either, there is also the development of players once in the system and playing them in their best roles to maximise the production.

In 2010 we were widely known to be league leaders in youth development. whilst I still think we are going ok here I don't think we are leading the league in it.


Also an evident thing from last night is how strong bodied both teams were across the ground, yes there is the odd skinny body but they tend to crack in like S.Bolton (despite his frame regularly cracks in take note stepho) or have manic defensive pressure.

I think the FD soft cap implementation hit us harder than we likely appreciate. The biggest spending club in the league brought back to the field, able to spend about 1/2 what they were before it was implemented.

 

[jackcass]

Dustin Martin showed last night what a one million dollar player looks like in action.

As did Tom Lynch.

 

[loki04]

I think the FD soft cap implementation hit us harder than we likely appreciate. The biggest spending club in the league brought back to the field, able to spend about 1/2 what they were before it was implemented.

I think we should just pay some tax and have the best.

 

[jackcass]

I think we should just pay some tax and have the best.

Who are these “best” and why do we need to spend the +85% tax to get them? Genuine question.

 

[No SPIN]

Im in the pinch one basket for the current list, this is not a "dynasty" team or even a back to back side. I think its a good nucleus to build around Grundy Moore Degoey.

Not sure a full rebuild is needed with the profile we have but imo a good reno is definitely on the cards after 2021 or 22 at latest.

I think the Reno will start by stealth beginning this year with Reef and Daicos next year - Both, if they live up expectation replace Sidey and Pendles.

 

[No SPIN]

I think the FD soft cap implementation hit us harder than we likely appreciate. The biggest spending club in the league brought back to the field, able to spend about 1/2 what they were before it was implemented.

Agree it was a massive impact and in particular on players who had great relationships with departed coaches.
It now puts a huge additional burden on the few which could be telling.

 

[No SPIN]

Who are these “best” and why do we need to spend the +85% tax to get them? Genuine question.

I’d try to get Leppitsch - is it a coincidence they’ve done so well since he joined the Tigers? Also Solomon is another option.

 

[Go Woods]

Carlton potentially as a smokey in top 8 discussion with Saad and Williams coming in and Curnow back imo. They are a funny team Carlton but eventually it will click.

And I'll give it all away if they overtake us and win a flag before our next one.

 

[loki04]

Who are these “best” and why do we need to spend the +85% tax to get them? Genuine question.

The best off field team possible* I meant and obvs the best you can get in the role. As for names surely the club can sort that out.

Like having an actual ruck coach.
Having a skills coach for kicking etc.
Having the right development teams.

You need to spend the tax because as you pointed out in the previous comment we can't afford them without it.

If we need an extra 600k to fill those roles then damn fill them and pay the tax to accommodate it. Who cares if a few hundred K goes into some kitty. We were paying 10s of millions over it prior.

 

[loki04]

I think the Reno will start by stealth beginning this year with Reef and Daicos next year - Both, if they live up expectation replace Sidey and Pendles.

Yeah need to get and develop a spine as well as mids given it takes 4-5 years to get them to come on and perform consistently. IMO the best way is spine first then get mids so they come through together similar to 2010 (especially given the aforementioned 2 coming in).

 

[Doc1763]

I’d try to get Leppitsch - is it a coincidence they’ve done so well since he joined the Tigers? Also Solomon is another option.

I think I read somewhere that Leppitsch is moving away from football altogether.

 

[jackcass]

The best off field team possible* I meant and obvs the best you can get in the role. As for names surely the club can sort that out.

Like having an actual ruck coach.
Having a skills coach for kicking etc.
Having the right development teams.

You need to spend the tax because as you pointed out in the previous comment we can't afford them without it.

If we need an extra 600k to fill those roles then damn fill them and pay the tax to accommodate it. Who cares if a few hundred K goes into some kitty. We were paying 10s of millions over it prior.

But we've had a ruck coach, people just don't like who it is, and we've had skills coaches apparently, and $600k becomes $1.11m by the time you add the tax, maybe even more with the mooted FD spend changes, so it's not cheap.

I'm not saying I disagree, just playing devils advocate. These are tough calls and we're discussing it all with little actual knowledge to support a position 1 way or another.

 

[loki04]

But we've had a ruck coach, people just don't like who it is, and we've had skills coaches apparently, and $600k becomes $1.11m by the time you add the tax, maybe even more with the mooted FD spend changes, so it's not cheap.

I'm not saying I disagree, just playing devils advocate. These are tough calls and we're discussing it all with little actual knowledge to support a position 1 way or another.

Ed just refusing to pay tax nothing more to it. We dropped our footy dep spend to come under the cap by 16 million odd to say 1.1 mil is an issue is laughable.

Who cares if its 2 million we pay if it achieves what is needed. And yes I'd prefer an ex ruckman who is an assistant in the role or proven ruck coach.

 

[jackcass]

Ed just refusing to pay tax nothing more to it. We dropped our footy dep spend to come under the cap by 16 million odd to say 1.1 mil is an issue is laughable.

Who cares if its 2 million we pay if it achieves what is needed. And yes I'd prefer an ex ruckman who is an assistant in the role or proven ruck coach.

Every club is refusing to pay the tax, nothing more to it.

From memory, the FD spend under MM was something like $14m and it's now somewhere around $9m so I'm not sure where the $16m comes from.

 

[loki04]

Every club is refusing to pay the tax, nothing more to it.

From memory, the FD spend under MM was something like $14m and it's now somewhere around $9m so I'm not sure where the $16m comes from.

Was meant to be a . in there. 1.6 mil but it was a guess amount anyway.


Point being we were happy to spend that amount to have the "best" off field team we could why would it matter if we have to pay into a pretend kitty a similar amount to achieve the same. We are an not for profit organization and the welfare likely goes back to the club vis a vis some other kick back the AFL gives each ;club anyway.

 

[Old Spice]

The club is musty, cloistered and needs a total clean out. The only one that should remain is Hine. We need new ideas, new skills, new energy.

The club is run like a mid 20th century American union, built around the cult of personality, Ed, and from there flow all the appointments and favours. Eddie is done. He has one hand on the wheel, and a finger in every pie, but the ideas ran out long ago. He's a good salesman but we need some deep strategic thinking, a la Brendan Gale at the Tigers.

 

[TradeDraft]

Hine has not had a Good Draft Since 2014 when we got De Goey,Moore and Maynard

 

[AndrewShawble]

Enough is enough with this guy, we have tried it his way drafting (or not drafting) key forwards.

Our last one of any note was Trav Cloke who was a f/s.

Cox was a great experiment and had some great moments, Cameron has been handy as a 2nd ruck/forward.

The cupboard is bare.

 

[10571z]

Enough is enough with this guy, we have tried it his way drafting (or not drafting) key forwards.

Our last one of any note was Trav Cloke who was a f/s.

Cox was a great experiment and had some great moments, Cameron has been handy as a 2nd ruck/forward.

The cupboard is bare.

Lol, played in what? 3 grand finals and how many finals under his list management/drafting.

You’ll never be good forever

 

[Drought Break]

Please don’t tell me one of the 2, pick 7 picks for Treloar could have landed us McKay? Thanks Derek

 

[AndrewShawble]

Lol, played in what? 3 grand finals and how many finals under his list management/drafting.

You’ll never be good forever

Collingwood average a GF appearance something like every 4 years since the league was founded, statistically what’s occurred in the last 10-15 years is actually fairly common for Collingwood.