Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies

[jackcass]

Yeap, Hine would have drafted players based or inline with the coaches directives/needs...End of story! The 'buck' stops with the man at the top and he's now gone...That's why GW got rid of Bucks mid year, allowing Club time to a seek new coach before Trade/FA and draft periods. GW is switched on.

Hmmmm, interesting approach. Drag a few disconnected elements together to draw some NQR conclusions.

 

[76woodenspooners]

So you are saying key forwards have no impact?

No, I’m not saying that at all.

They can have enormous impact.

Tony Lockett and Barry Hall had enormous impact at St Kilda.

Brendon Fevola had enormous impact at Carlton

But were those teams any good? No.

And of course they can have enormous impact in successful teams too.

So are they the difference between successful teams and unsuccessful teams? I’m not convinced.

 

[Horaceg]

Neil

If that’s a joke that’s funny, if not FU Neil!

 

[Markfs]

No, I’m not saying that at all.

They can have enormous impact.

Tony Lockett and Barry Hall had enormous impact at St Kilda.

Brendon Fevola had enormous impact at Carlton

But were those teams any good? No.

And of course they can have enormous impact in successful teams too.

So are they the difference between successful teams and unsuccessful teams? I’m not convinced.

touk miller - all australian in a crap side. I could go on but you get the gist. This isnt Michael Jordan. Even he needed a few offsiders to help him out.

And the other point you make about being worth it... who said anything about trading off the crown jewels to get a key forward. You can actually try picking one in the draft.

I thought that the penny might have dropped when they got Mihocek and he was so good. But nup.... evidently he was the only guy at 192cm or above that was any good in the lower league...and frankly he isnt key position even though he plays like it.

Now if you want to pack the team with bailey fridges, then go right ahead. He can take a mark and move around. I see the advantages. However, guys like nathan murphy are a dead frigging loss. They provide neither marking or ground skills. So at least get someone who can mark the ball in a pack....at least get that, whatever the size.

 

[Markfs]

Hmmmm, interesting approach. Drag a few disconnected elements together to draw some NQR conclusions.

I think it's a good approach. I left a pen in my shorts when i washed them. I blame buckley. It seems reasonable to me.

 

[76woodenspooners]

touk miller - all australian in a crap side. I could go on but you get the gist. This isnt Michael Jordan. Even he needed a few offsiders to help him out.

And the other point you make about being worth it... who said anything about trading off the crown jewels to get a key forward. You can actually try picking one in the draft.

We have: Liam McMahon. Some folks who follow training more than I do are saying Aiden Begg projects as a KPF.

No doubt they’ll be a few years away.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

i saw that jmac was interested in seeing the article. I would love to read it too. If you dont have the link, could you give an details about it that might make it easier to find such as who buckley was talking to ...or when he made these statements...

Wasn’t an article, said it in an interview.

 

[Markfs]

i noticed that ben brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

32

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

did ok over the weekend. He puts his arms up and it's difficult to spoil him. Jesse Hogan

23

Jesse Hogan

Age

29

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.0

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

0.0

1star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

did ok too for a big boy, although he was outmarked on occasion. It's ironic that these two and Tom McDonald

25

Tom Mcdonald

Age

32

Ht

195cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

261.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.6

1star

MG

135.6

2star

D

13.8

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

were available over the last trade period and we were playing Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

as the key forward. If I had a focus on mobility for my big guys, I would be giving Brown or McDonald some ruck lessons and having players who were a lot more mobile in he forward line.

 

[sr36]

I cannot comprehend the dynamics or decision-making which would lead to our club stripping resources from recruiting.

It seems so counterintuitive to a layman like myself, how does it happen?

This is what I'd bet on.

Sack Rsndell. A couple of blokes walk with him. Covid hits. Soft cap reduction. Easier to just not hire replacements than to ask others to take pay cuts.

 

[ThePheonix]

Derek Hines instructions were to pick best available. Not his fault we never went with some KPF. These guys do as they're told.
Even with best available, comes from people above you.
He scouts and gives his opinions on best players going.
Yeah?

For 20 years?? LOL

 

[johncitizen]

For 20 years?? LOL

Yes forever it seems. Best available is almost always a midfielder. Unless you finish bottom two which can be used on a quality KPF. We always ended up mid or upper ladder.

He has said this countless times. "Best available at our pick"
Unless you were not listening.

I'm not saying this is the way to go about it. I'm saying this is the way they went about it.

 

[Billys Back]

We have picked Moore, McCartly and Kelly.

It may be as simple as Hine not being strong in identifying the important characteristics of a potentially good young key forward. Or the failure of a strategy to find and develop them via Cat B rookies. Which for all we know was a strategy which was agreed upon by the department.

Or we have just been a little unlucky in not finishing lower in a strong draft of key forwards?

 

[Markfs]

Yes forever it seems. Best available is almost always a midfielder. Unless you finish bottom two which can be used on a quality KPF. We always ended up mid or upper ladder.

He has said this countless times. "Best available at our pick"
Unless you were not listening.

I'm not saying this is the way to go about it. I'm saying this is the way they went about it.

a bit like me going to the royal show and picking best poodle....

 

[Markfs]

We have picked Moore, McCartly and Kelly.

It may be as simple as Hine not being strong in identifying the important characteristics of a potentially good young key forward. Or the failure of a strategy to find and develop them via Cat B rookies. Which for all we know was a strategy which was agreed upon by the department.

Or we have just been a little unlucky in not finishing lower in a strong draft of key forwards?

That is the reason....permanently unlucky... unlucky in recruiting...unluckly in injuries.... unlucky in finals... unlucky in love

 

[Billys Back]

That is the reason....permanently unlucky... unlucky in recruiting...unluckly in injuries.... unlucky in finals... unlucky in love

I don’t know the answer other than it seems the best key forwards are picked early in the draft (or father-sons)

Hawkins, Cameron, Kennedy, Kings, McKay, Curnow (?), Riewoldt, Franklin, Naughton, Dixon, Daniher Lynch.

Of those players, Naughton was probably the only one we had an opportunity to grab.

So it’s obvious the level of success in finding a top key forward after the 1st round is low.

And I doubt we have been creative enough in the past to stockpile early picks and plan cap space to try and get one of them from another club.

Edit: I should add there have been plenty of busts as well early in the draft. MCCartin, Schache, Boyd, Paton….

 

[Maggie Greg]

Failure in hindsight. Shaz was highly touted at the time and Freeman was no slouch either. Both players were/have been cruelled by injuries, hard to predict that when they're 18.

Scharenberg was drafted injured which required foot operations to both feet to remove small bones. That had disaster written all over it.

 

[Jasper84]

We have picked Moore, McCartly and Kelly.

It may be as simple as Hine not being strong in identifying the important characteristics of a potentially good young key forward. Or the failure of a strategy to find and develop them via Cat B rookies. Which for all we know was a strategy which was agreed upon by the department.

Or we have just been a little unlucky in not finishing lower in a strong draft of key forwards?

Can't discount the faith they put in Cox being the KPF we needed. His rise coincided with Clokes downfall and I think that they both banked on Cloke playing well into his 30's and Cox continuing his trajectory. Neither eventuated.

 

[Markfs]

Scharenberg was drafted injured which required foot operations to both feet to remove small bones. That had disaster written all over it.

yes but he was the best footballer of that generation. He was going to be better than Jesus. We were unlucky. None of it was Hine's fault. We should only love Derek. Shaz was from a good family and we born in Dec and had the right mix of european heritage and was going to supercharge the team. We were unlucky. Time to focus on Derek's successes.

 

[Markfs]

I don’t know the answer other than it seems the best key forwards are picked early in the draft (or father-sons)

Hawkins, Cameron, Kennedy, Kings, McKay, Curnow (?), Riewoldt, Franklin, Naughton, Dixon, Daniher Lynch.

Of those players, Naughton was probably the only one we had an opportunity to grab.

So it’s obvious the level of success in finding a top key forward after the 1st round is low.

And I doubt we have been creative enough in the past to stockpile early picks and plan cap space to try and get one of them from another club.

Edit: I should add there have been plenty of busts as well early in the draft. MCCartin, Schache, Boyd, Paton….

Derek has proven skills in identifying half back flankers with poor kicking skills. That is his strong suit. We should be grateful for his ability to deliver those types of players.

 

[ThePhantom777]

I don’t know the answer other than it seems the best key forwards are picked early in the draft (or father-sons)

Hawkins, Cameron, Kennedy, Kings, McKay, Curnow (?), Riewoldt, Franklin, Naughton, Dixon, Daniher Lynch.

Of those players, Naughton was probably the only one we had an opportunity to grab.

If Stephenson wins us the 2018 Grand Final this pick is genius. In Hindsight it's awful. Stephenson is no longer with us and Naughton kicked 44.38 this year.

 

[No SPIN]

Scharenberg was drafted injured which required foot operations to both feet to remove small bones. That had disaster written all over it.

Stevo has a heart condition- swings and roundabouts

 

[PREETY_FLY]

If Stephenson wins us the 2018 Grand Final this pick is genius. In Hindsight it's awful. Stephenson is no longer with us and Naughton kicked 22.16 this year.
View attachment 1227732

Hindsight .... if only we knew. Everyone was creaming them selves over Jaidyn in his first year.

 

[MyManLynch]

Hindsight .... if only we knew. Everyone was creaming them selves over Jaidyn in his first year.

Hindsight could have delivered us 10 of the last 10 flags.

 

[PREETY_FLY]

Hindsight could have delivered us 10 of the last 10 flags.

Hindsight could have made bucks the greatest coach of the modern era

 

[sr36]

If Stephenson wins us the 2018 Grand Final this pick is genius. In Hindsight it's awful. Stephenson is no longer with us and Naughton kicked 22.16 this year.
View attachment 1227732

Stephenson kicked 17.19 this year, in a terrible team, playing a fair bit of mid. I think it'll be a close call for who kicks the most career goals and who has the better career. Obviously we'd prefer Naughtons pack breaking ability, but Stephenson was not a bad pick.