Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies

[jackcass]

What impressed me regarding the 2010 flag was his hit rate with rookies, that has completely dried up since.

We were spending well north of $10m on the footy department back then under MM. Soft cap is well below that.

 

[manicpie]

His job is to pick players according to the strategy. Mason and Mihocek were excellent selections when you look at what it cost us. Lynch and Grundy have been good, rucks are equally difficult to pick. Given the picks we’ve had I think he has been pretty good. With some obvious misses of course. The only better recruiter based on record is probably the guy down in Geelong, forget his name. But he’s also been the beneficiary of hiding players down at the falcons.

Cox and Mihochek were excellent selections, but as is the case with all the not so perfect players, they cause us to fall short when it comes to the big dance. That's why you need lot's of elite talent on your list

 

[magpies42]

Cox and Mihochek were excellent selections, but as is the case with all the not so perfect players, they cause us to fall short when it comes to the big dance. That's why you need lot's of elite talent on your list

Elite talent helps…but i feel Collingwoods poor premiership conversion is owed to the pressure and expectation that surrounds the club.

Not withstanding Bucks did a tremendous job with a defective list in 2018…

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Elite talent helps…but i feel Collingwoods poor premiership conversion is owed to the pressure and expectation that surrounds the club.

Not withstanding Bucks did a tremendous job with a defective list in 2018…

Bucks went on record saying he doesn’t rate KF’s, said something along the lines of only Tom Hawkins is consistent, at the end of the day it was his downfall IMO, look at Melbourne - Brisbane and Geelong, paying big bucks to KFs and all competing for a flag, Bucks was way, way off IMO, he’s a stubborn fkr though, will probably bring the same thinking to his next coaching gig.
He’ll be offered he GC gig soon.

 

[jmac70]

Bucks went on record saying he doesn’t rate KF’s, said something along the lines of only Tom Hawkins is consistent, at the end of the day it was his downfall IMO, look at Melbourne - Brisbane and Geelong, paying big bucks to KFs and all competing for a flag, Bucks was way, way off IMO, he’s a stubborn fkr though, will probably bring the same thinking to his next coaching gig.
He’ll be offered he GC gig soon.

Can you link the interview please? I’d be interested to read that.

 

[manicpie]

Bucks went on record saying he doesn’t rate KF’s, said something along the lines of only Tom Hawkins is consistent, at the end of the day it was his downfall IMO, look at Melbourne - Brisbane and Geelong, paying big bucks to KFs and all competing for a flag, Bucks was way, way off IMO, he’s a stubborn fkr though, will probably bring the same thinking to his next coaching gig.
He’ll be offered he GC gig soon.

Buck's was an idiot who ended up in his own little world completely oblivious to everyone around him, kind of like a parallel universe

 

[magpies42]

Bucks went on record saying he doesn’t rate KF’s, said something along the lines of only Tom Hawkins is consistent, at the end of the day it was his downfall IMO, look at Melbourne - Brisbane and Geelong, paying big bucks to KFs and all competing for a flag, Bucks was way, way off IMO, he’s a stubborn fkr though, will probably bring the same thinking to his next coaching gig.
He’ll be offered he GC gig soon.

That system could work if you’re quick and skillful which we weren’t. To say he was way off is unfair, we got within a kick of a premiership.

 

[Markfs]

Bucks went on record saying he doesn’t rate KF’s, said something along the lines of only Tom Hawkins is consistent, at the end of the day it was his downfall IMO, look at Melbourne - Brisbane and Geelong, paying big bucks to KFs and all competing for a flag, Bucks was way, way off IMO, he’s a stubborn fkr though, will probably bring the same thinking to his next coaching gig.
He’ll be offered he GC gig soon.

i saw that jmac was interested in seeing the article. I would love to read it too. If you dont have the link, could you give an details about it that might make it easier to find such as who buckley was talking to ...or when he made these statements...

 

[76woodenspooners]

We could find fault with the boot studder if someone knew his name.

Can someone tell me the name of the boot studder?

Neil

 

[Rorzza]

Yeap, Hine would have drafted players based or inline with the coaches directives/needs...End of story! The 'buck' stops with the man at the top and he's now gone...That's why GW got rid of Bucks mid year, allowing Club time to a seek new coach before Trade/FA and draft periods. GW is switched on.

 

[76woodenspooners]

What impressed me regarding the 2010 flag was his hit rate with rookies, that has completely dried up since.

Plenty of rookies have played a decent role for us over the last 10 years and getting games ahead of more fancied draftees. None of them have been Brownlow contenders, but you don’t expect that from rookies …

OTTOMH …

Mihocek (been reliable)
Ginnivan (very early days)
Noble
Madgen (unfashionable, but has improved out of sight)
Williams (had one cracking season then the wheels fell off)
Martin
Dwyer (solid without being spectacular)
Keeffe (still on GWS’ list as a 31 year old!)

 

[76woodenspooners]

We were spending well north of $10m on the footy department back then under MM. Soft cap is well below that.

IIRC it’s now a little over $6 million

 

[76woodenspooners]

What’s the latest word on him?Is he going to get the axe or not?It would seem strange if he stayed on,given that the rest of the football department is in the process of being completely turned over.

He’d have an enormous amount of IP in his head. Not just knowledge of the current AFL landscape, but how players develop, trends, etc, etc.

It’s not a role that’s easy to replace.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Bucks went on record saying he doesn’t rate KF’s, said something along the lines of only Tom Hawkins is consistent, at the end of the day it was his downfall IMO, look at Melbourne - Brisbane and Geelong, paying big bucks to KFs and all competing for a flag, Bucks was way, way off IMO, he’s a stubborn fkr though, will probably bring the same thinking to his next coaching gig.
He’ll be offered he GC gig soon.

The bottom teams have KF’s too.

This year’s Coleman medalist is a KF for the team that finished 13th.

Taylor Walker had a cracking season (onfield), kicked 48 goals, but his team were poor. Ben King pretty much ditto.

KF’s make great highlight reels, they catch the eye, they’re very popular to have on posters on the bedroom walls of schoolkids.

But are they the difference between successful teams and unsuccessful teams? I haven’t seen a compelling argument that justifies their high price tag.

Ben Brown - currently successful team, but was playing for unsuccessful team.

Fev - unsuccessful team, brief stint at rubbish team

Franklin - 2 successful teams

Lockett - rubbish team, successful team

Hall - rubbish team, successful team, average team

Carey - successful team

 

[Markfs]

Yeap, Hine would have drafted players based or inline with the coaches directives/needs...End of story! The 'buck' stops with the man at the top and he's now gone...That's why GW got rid of Bucks mid year, allowing Club time to a seek new coach before Trade/FA and draft periods. GW is switched on.

I would have liked being present at that conversation where buckley told hine that he was too fussed about foot skills... "yeh just make sure they're from good families and are born in december. I'm not that interested in foot skills"

 

[johncitizen]

Derek Hines instructions were to pick best available. Not his fault we never went with some KPF. These guys do as they're told.
Even with best available, comes from people above you.
He scouts and gives his opinions on best players going.
Yeah?

 

[johncitizen]

I remember Bucks saying the future is mobile key forwards. He never said he didn't want KPF. In my opinion Buckleywas wrong eventhough i love the man.
Need a mix of both.

 

[Markfs]

The bottom teams have KF’s too.

This year’s Coleman medalist is a KF for the team that finished 13th.

Taylor Walker had a cracking season (onfield), kicked 48 goals, but his team were poor. Ben King pretty much ditto.

KF’s make great highlight reels, they catch the eye, they’re very popular to have on posters on the bedroom walls of schoolkids.

But are they the difference between successful teams and unsuccessful teams? I haven’t seen a compelling argument that justifies their high price tag.

Ben Brown - currently successful team, but was playing for unsuccessful team.

Fev - unsuccessful team, brief stint at rubbish team

Franklin - 2 successful teams

Lockett - rubbish team, successful team

Hall - rubbish team, successful team, average team

Carey - successful team

So you are saying key forwards have no impact?

 

[Markfs]

Derek Hines instructions were to pick best available. Not his fault we never went with some KPF. These guys do as they're told.
Even with best available, comes from people above you.
He scouts and gives his opinions on best players going.
Yeah?

You haven't seen a Hine post-draft interview eh?

 

[johncitizen]

You haven't seen a Hine post-draft interview eh?

Explain please. You really think it's all left to him to decide who to draft?

 

[Markfs]

I remember bucks saying that he liked blondes and liked to be spanked..... but dont quote me ...

 

[jackcass]

IIRC it’s now a little over $6 million

I think that’s right, somewhere between $6-7m. I think MM was spending up around $13m. Big difference.

 

[Markfs]

Explain please. You really think it's all left to him to decide who to draft?

You've got your good v evil hat on again. Thinks aren't always black and white. Hine has a significant impact on ranking the various players in the draft. If the match committee says that it needs a small forward, Hine says this particular guy is the best one.

Also, he has said previously that he is flexible when making picks on draft night depending on who is available. He talks about guys like scharenberg and his history and why he picked him. Hine isn't an innocent bystander.

 

[jackcass]

Bucks went on record saying he doesn’t rate KF’s, said something along the lines of only Tom Hawkins is consistent, at the end of the day it was his downfall IMO, look at Melbourne - Brisbane and Geelong, paying big bucks to KFs and all competing for a flag, Bucks was way, way off IMO, he’s a stubborn fkr though, will probably bring the same thinking to his next coaching gig.
He’ll be offered he GC gig soon.

Didn’t say he didn’t rate KF’s. Said he thought that there would be a shift away from the traditional style toward more mobile and dynamic options.

 

[johncitizen]

You've got your good v evil hat on again. Thinks aren't always black and white. Hine has a significant impact on ranking the various players in the draft. If the match committee says that it needs a small forward, Hine says this particular guy is the best one.

Also, he has said previously that he is flexible when making picks on draft night depending on who is available. He talks about guys like scharenberg and his history and why he picked him. Hine isn't an innocent bystander.

Perhaps not although we are pretty much agreeing about this.