Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies

[manicpie]

There is a African at the dogs I would try a poach...his name escapes me...number 24 I think

Thoughts?

Buku Khamis I think

 

[Knightmare]

Those who are anti-Hine, and I disagree with the sentiment and still regard Hine highly. The problem hasn't been Hine and his talent ID or usage of picks. If I want someone picking junior talent, Hine remains one of the best in the business. I wouldn't want Hine as a list manager, that's not him, but he's one of the absolute best junior talent guys and even last year with a reduced recruiting team really did very well in one of the few years he has actually had access to picks.

The problem for Hine and Collingwood's recruiters is their team is too small and too limited. The team needs to be added to.

Matt Rendell has publicly covered this. He's gone, and he was in his tenure with Adelaide the competition's best junior talent ID guy. Dom Milesi has gone to the Dogs to head up their recruiting. Hine doesn't have enough support for results to be maximised. So the Pies just need to get hiring and add more names to have working under Hine.

My personal advise to Collingwood would be stocking up on opposition talent ID and state league talent ID specialists, with a view towards putting as much time into those sources of recruitment as is currently placed into junior talent ID. And I've been saying this for nearing 10 years now. They're undervalued areas of recruitment and those who do it well become the best teams. Geelong with mature agers and more recently opposition list talent on top of that are the closest thing to an optimal recruitment model I've seen in recent times. Getting Tim Kelly (24), Tom Stewart (40), Sam Menegola (60s), Tom Atkins (rookie). Before them James Podsiadly (rookie) and Harry Taylor (teens). They just get it and it doesn't feel like anyone else has realised what they're doing.

There is a African at the dogs I would try a poach...his name escapes me...number 24 I think

Thoughts?

24 for the Dogs is Buku Khamis. He's talented, good athlete and leaper, can intercept. He's only 190cm though, so he's not a key defence solution if that's your thinking, but he could be a third tall and possible role player.

I covered key defence solutions recently on YouTube and I'm seeing a historic number of good options available. So many where there is no excuse for Collingwood not to get at least one capable one. From all the unwanted veterans, to guys on rival lists who are highly developable and unsigned. Outside the AFL: Blake Schlensog, Sam Skinner and Leek Alleer all are AFL calibre as mature agers.

I'd go get at least two this offseason. Whether it's drafting/trading/free agents. Nothing meaningful in the way of picks is required to add good key defenders this offseason which in a Collingwood context is key and why it's a great opportunity to load up now.

 

[Markfs]

From 2016, Drew and Liam Ryan (the year before he was drafted) would have been my two hits, while Jye Bolton who continues to dominate in the WAFL is another I liked who I speculative if given another chance would have been great. But I would have missed Callum Brown and Josh Daicos. Similarly Max Lynch as a rookie I didn't rate and wouldn't have picked either.

So you hit some and you miss some when you put together your own draft board, and it's going to have its own flavour.

On Drew though. Drew was a beast in his draft year (in terms of competitiveness and aggression Drew and Jack Viney are on the highest level I've seen come through the junior ranks) and now Port Adelaide are playing him, he's playing very good footy this year. I had a senior recruiter that year from Essendon ask me the question as I was raving about Drew as someone I'd pick top-10, 'Jarrod Berry or Willem Drew' and Berry has had the better start to his career but Drew has sure made his case this year as a good contested mid, but also one of the competition's elite defensive mids as that strong tackling, high pressure act mid who really heavily influences games.

If Drew is on Collingwood's list, Adams is probably the 1a, but Drew would be a close 1b on this year's form. He's a top-30 midfielder in the competition on 2021 play. I'd love to be able to recruit him over needless to say, but can't see any reason the way Port Adelaide are going why he'd want out.

I just looked at your phantom draft for that year and I noticed that you had nathan murphy 11 or 12.... I was wondering what people saw in him. I'm not trying to stir ya, I'm curious what qualities he had that stood out.

 

[Knightmare]

I just looked at your phantom draft for that year and I noticed that you had nathan murphy 11 or 12.... I was wondering what people saw in him. I'm not trying to stir ya, I'm curious what qualities he had that stood out.

Nathan Murphy I had 49 in my power rankings in 2017, but the talk heading into the draft was he'd go earlier rather than later. I thought he might feature in the teens but a few clubs who had expressed interest passed, so he dropped as a result.

My phantom draft is to reflect where I believe clubs are likely to take players, so they're not correlated with where I personally rate players. The rumours were so ridiculous around Murphy that there were some thoughts, and I don't know the level of accuracy around this, but that Collingwood had even discussed Murphy at 6 in case they couldn't get him at 39.

The relative intrigue with Murphy is he wasn't fully focused on footy, having been a proficient cricketer and focused there previously. I wasn't sold on him as I didn't see that clear best position for him (is he a defender? forward?) - lacking that spot where he could be best-22, which is largely how it has played out for him to date. I know he has played a fair bit this year, but I remain unconvinced and continue to place him in the basket of - I'd rather not have to play him.

 

[Markfs]

Nathan Murphy I had 49 in my power rankings in 2017, but the talk heading into the draft was he'd go earlier rather than later. I thought he might feature in the teens but a few clubs who had expressed interest passed, so he dropped as a result.

My phantom draft is to reflect where I believe clubs are likely to take players, so they're not correlated with where I personally rate players. The rumours were so ridiculous around Murphy that there were some thoughts, and I don't know the level of accuracy around this, but that Collingwood had even discussed Murphy at 6 in case they couldn't get him at 39.

The relative intrigue with Murphy is he wasn't fully focused on footy, having been a proficient cricketer and focused there previously. I wasn't sold on him as I didn't see that clear best position for him (is he a defender? forward?) - lacking that spot where he could be best-22, which is largely how it has played out for him to date. I know he has played a fair bit this year, but I remain unconvinced and continue to place him in the basket of - I'd rather not have to play him.

ironically his attitude seems to be one of his strengths... thanks for response.

 

[PieBeast]

Reminds me of cockroaches, no matter what they survive.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

What impressed me regarding the 2010 flag was his hit rate with rookies, that has completely dried up since.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Nathan Murphy I had 49 in my power rankings in 2017, but the talk heading into the draft was he'd go earlier rather than later. I thought he might feature in the teens but a few clubs who had expressed interest passed, so he dropped as a result.

My phantom draft is to reflect where I believe clubs are likely to take players, so they're not correlated with where I personally rate players. The rumours were so ridiculous around Murphy that there were some thoughts, and I don't know the level of accuracy around this, but that Collingwood had even discussed Murphy at 6 in case they couldn't get him at 39.

The relative intrigue with Murphy is he wasn't fully focused on footy, having been a proficient cricketer and focused there previously. I wasn't sold on him as I didn't see that clear best position for him (is he a defender? forward?) - lacking that spot where he could be best-22, which is largely how it has played out for him to date. I know he has played a fair bit this year, but I remain unconvinced and continue to place him in the basket of - I'd rather not have to play him.

Agree, he has courage in spades, almost to much courage, but he has no other weapons, isn’t quick, isn’t clean, skills aren’t a standout, questionable tank.

 

[Knightmare]

What impressed me regarding the 2010 flag was his hit rate with rookies, that has completely dried up since.

The size of the recruiting team has reduced down with other recruiting teams increasing. That impacts results, aside from the bad trades made that have taken Collingwood out of too many drafts.

You're right though with the 2010 flag side and the rookies. With the recruiting team restructure/reduction (with other recruiting teams now much larger), not having the same calibre of coaching or veteran leadership and quality established players and pick conversion really doesn't have a chance, nor player development, to be anything near the level it was at in the Malthouse/Maxwell era.

 

[cityslick1]

Agree, he has courage in spades, almost too much courage, but he has no other weapons, isn’t quick, isn’t clean, skills aren’t a standout, questionable tank.

tank is fine... 6.09 2km. & kicking was supposed to be v good. Decision making WAS elite, but none of this has been on-show, and lack of pace & genuine defensive skills has really hurt him.

In fact pace seems to be the big kicker for most players who transition from other sports. Its the big thing holding Wilson back, Keath uses his height and smarts to off-set no genuine pace, Rantall not explosive enough, Cox not quick, Madgen can get caught, and its the only chink in Pendles' armory...

Big part of our list management problem

 

[sr36]

Fas could play but fell victim to the focus on defensive intent over being a creative goal kicker as a fwd.

Imo coaches lost sight of what makes a great fwd line yes you need to defend but not at the cost of being able to score (which is where Buckley ultimately failed).

We were obsessed with inside 50 entries. Data at the time suggested that all teams scored a similar amount from their inside 50 entries.

So we maximised entries and we skewed the data by playing 2 extra mids and 2 forwards short. 4 against 6 in the forward line and we couldn't lock it in, so we went with pressure forwards...

It was just shite.

 

[lenny&carl]

Those who are anti-Hine, and I disagree with the sentiment and still regard Hine highly. The problem hasn't been Hine and his talent ID or usage of picks. If I want someone picking junior talent, Hine remains one of the best in the business. I wouldn't want Hine as a list manager, that's not him, but he's one of the absolute best junior talent guys and even last year with a reduced recruiting team really did very well in one of the few years he has actually had access to picks.

The problem for Hine and Collingwood's recruiters is their team is too small and too limited. The team needs to be added to.

I know this one guy they should look at. Gotta bring young talent into the program.

 

[loki04]

The size of the recruiting team has reduced down with other recruiting teams increasing. That impacts results, aside from the bad trades made that have taken Collingwood out of too many drafts.

You're right though with the 2010 flag side and the rookies. With the recruiting team restructure/reduction (with other recruiting teams now much larger), not having the same calibre of coaching or veteran leadership and quality established players and pick conversion really doesn't have a chance, nor player development, to be anything near the level it was at in the Malthouse/Maxwell era.

Read on EBnW Collingwood now has one of the smallest recruiting teams in the AFL down from one of the biggest pre AFL tax.

 

[MyManLynch]

Read on EBnW Collingwood now has one of the smallest recruiting teams in the AFL down from one of the biggest pre AFL tax.

That has to be addressed.
Hopefully Wright all over it.

 

[Knightmare]

Read on EBnW Collingwood now has one of the smallest recruiting teams in the AFL down from one of the biggest pre AFL tax.

That's true and a key point that needs addressing.

 

[JB1975]

I cannot comprehend the dynamics or decision-making which would lead to our club stripping resources from recruiting.

It seems so counterintuitive to a layman like myself, how does it happen?

 

[manicpie]

I cannot comprehend the dynamics or decision-making which would lead to our club stripping resources from recruiting.

It seems so counterintuitive to a layman like myself, how does it happen?

We must have had some strange people making decisions

 

[SchuPie]

That's true and a key point that needs addressing.

KM - Do you know how that came about?
Surely money in recruiting is a priority?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I cannot comprehend the dynamics or decision-making which would lead to our club stripping resources from recruiting.

It seems so counterintuitive to a layman like myself, how does it happen?

We figured we’d give away a bunch of talented players for next to no return, then go against the grain of the rest of the league by investing heavily in what was considered a shallow draft… so naturally we didn’t want too well-resourced a recruiting department to manage those assets.

 

[johncitizen]

We figured we’d give away a bunch of talented players for next to no return, then go against the grain of the rest of the league by investing heavily in what was considered a shallow draft… so naturally we didn’t want too well-resourced a recruiting department to manage those assets.

You think the rest of the recruitment teams did not know about Stevos feck ups.
Or that Treloars disposal is atrocious.
A genuine star would have fetched us a first or second rounder.

 

[anshell]

What’s the latest word on him?Is he going to get the axe or not?It would seem strange if he stayed on,given that the rest of the football department is in the process of being completely turned over.

 

[magpies42]

What’s the latest word on him?Is he going to get the axe or not?It would seem strange if he stayed on,given that the rest of the football department is in the process of being completely turned over.

Why would you get rid of him?! He’s one of the best if not the best recruiters in the business…

 

[anshell]

Why would you get rid of him?! He’s one of the best if not the best recruiters in the business…

He hasn’t recruited a decent key position player in the last ten years.And you think he’s one of the best recruiters in the business?

 

[Kawenda]

I reckon Dekker might get this draft bang on.

(Bit hard not to considering our hand this year)

 

[magpies42]

He hasn’t recruited a decent key position player in the last ten years.And you think he’s one of the best recruiters in the business?

His job is to pick players according to the strategy. Mason and Mihocek were excellent selections when you look at what it cost us. Lynch and Grundy have been good, rucks are equally difficult to pick. Given the picks we’ve had I think he has been pretty good. With some obvious misses of course. The only better recruiter based on record is probably the guy down in Geelong, forget his name. But he’s also been the beneficiary of hiding players down at the falcons.