Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies

[domus]

The 2018 Buckley side was amazing to watch.

The mojo was then lost. Sad that he'll be remembered more for those awful final years.

There were some awful early ones too.

 

[sr36]

There were some awful early ones too.

2016 was awful - we came out trying to copy WCEs full zone defence that hd worked for them when all their talls got injured - and none of our defenders had any idea what they were doing. And to top it off Swan's career ending injury.

 

[Jafo]

Scharenberg was already injured when he was recruited from memory.

There’s been a few over the years under Hines’ watch. Most recent I think was Begg. I don’t know who’s decision it was in the end or what happened but one of our biggest injured player non recruit in Hines’ era was Stevie J

 

[TradeDraft]

Yeah, well imagine your luck when we able to bring in Aish as well anyway through trade for you to be disappointed with also.

I was Glad we did.

Said how he was Pretty Much Forced out of the Club.

 

[TradeDraft]

I’m guessing that the “by mutual agreemen” bit means that we paid him a fairly generous payout.

Anybody have any idea what kind of payout a head of recruiting would get after 21 years of service? 6 months pay? 9 months pay? 12 months pay? More?

As a guide, Essendon offered a “6 figure sum” (> $100,000) to settle with Dodoro after 27 years and Dodoro said that wasn’t enough and took Essendon to FWC - where it was settled. Presumably for more than the original “6 figure sum”.

I took he was going to get Demoted and Decided be waste of his time to work like that

 

[jerry springer]

Malthouse could get blokes to play for him but he had no sniffs on structures. He was losing it even in 2010. He thought we were a point down in the seconds after the Milne bounce. Was giving commands to the runner to try to get us to go fast. Had to be talked down.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Christ, sorry the one thing Malthouse teams had was structure, his teams were as well drilled as they come just look at the talent level of the 2002 team, they played way above their paygrade


Also thanks Dekka for your service , gave us 20 years of competitive football and along with Eddie,MM and others made us a respected football club again

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

I’ve been pretty tough on Hine in the past, but the reality is he was apart of 2 flags and a few more sides that got to grand finals.

He had some bad misses in the first round and his lack of ability to get KPP’s outside of father sons was a cause of much frustration.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I took he was going to get Demoted and Decided be waste of his time to work like that

There are all kinds of employment protections that make it difficult to just demote people. (Besides, IMO it’s far better to move people on than demote them). And jilted people can make life difficult for organisations - just look at Mark Cleaver earlier this year, and he’d only been with club 6 months (versus Hine’s 21 years) and was a nobody (versus Hine being a known and much loved figure). The best solution is to use a generous amount of $$$ to convince them to come to an ‘amicable decision’.

 

[loki04]

You can call them a bust. To me they are grouped as unknown because they had seasons and seasons of early development taken away from them. To me this means no one can tell what talent and ability they had to make it if they had a clean run at it in their 1st few seasons. Development, particularly early is also vital and they lost theirs.

Imo if they didn't go on to even 50 AFL games as top 10 picks they are a bust. It was largely a wasted draft for Collingwood.

Schaz admittedly had an almost season in 2018.
Out of the game with 41 games to his name.

Anyway he had plenty of hits back then imo still one of the better talent ids in the game. My biggest gripe is his view on KPP vs Non KPP talents.

 

[loki04]

Nick Maxwell.

Was a Judkins selection.

 

[sideswipe]

Christ, sorry the one thing Malthouse teams had was structure, his teams were as well drilled as they come just look at the talent level of the 2002 team, they played way above their paygrade


Also thanks Dekka for your service , gave us 20 years of competitive football and along with Eddie,MM and others made us a respected football club again

Was talking late in his career. Ask anyone who was involved at the club in 2010. There was someone else driving our setups.

No need to call me Jesus.

 

[doofdoof]

Was talking late in his career. Ask anyone who was involved at the club in 2010. There was someone else driving our setups.

No need to call me Jesus.

Two things happened at the end of 2009, after Mick had failed to win a flag with the pies over his first 9 years.

1. Bucks was appointed assistant
2. The club traded for Darren Jolly

IMO Bucks was the key driver for recruiting Jolly, especially after Malthouse teams had lost two GFs to the Bears, substantially because Clark Keating smashed us in the ruck as we didn't have a big bodied ruckman.

 

[sideswipe]

Two things happened at the end of 2009, after Mick had failed to win a flag with the pies over his first 9 years.

1. Bucks was appointed assistant
2. The club traded for Darren Jolly

IMO Bucks was the key driver for recruiting Jolly, especially after Malthouse teams had lost two GFs to the Bears, substantially because Clark Keating smashed us in the ruck as we didn't have a big bodied ruckman.

Getting Luke Ball didn't hurt.

 

[Pistol Night]

Getting Luke Ball didn't hurt.

The forward press absolutely dismantling Geelong in the 2010 prelim was brutally exciting. Scarlett, Enright and co were in shock that waltzing the ball out of the backline by hand was suddenly not working after a couple of years. Was hard to picture that 12 months later they'd pants us in a GF

 

[sideswipe]

The forward press absolutely dismantling Geelong in the 2010 prelim was brutally exciting. Scarlett, Enright and co were in shock that waltzing the ball out of the backline by hand was suddenly not working after a couple of years. Was hard to picture that 12 months later they'd pants us in a GF

I remember being at that prelim thinking Ling's career had just been terminated.

 

[Pistol Night]

I remember being at that prelim thinking Ling's career had just been terminated.

It pains me to say but this is why Chris Scott doesn't get enough credit for 2011. If they rolled out the same stuff we would of went backtoback even with injuries and Micks hissyfits

 

[Gone Critical]

Imo if they didn't go on to even 50 AFL games as top 10 picks they are a bust. It was largely a wasted draft for Collingwood.

Schaz admittedly had an almost season in 2018.
Out of the game with 41 games to his name.

Anyway he had plenty of hits back then imo still one of the better talent ids in the game. My biggest gripe is his view on KPP vs Non KPP talents.

Agree they were both busts but that was because of the injuries they had after arriving at Collingwood. Take the injuries away and we don't know if they were good picks. We never found out. Was just bad luck other bad pic king

 

[joff]

I'm all for fresh blood when required but Dekka leaves a massive hole knowledge wise and my main concern is I'm hoping we've already identified a replacement and a quality one at that if not we will pay for this decision

 

[Pistol Night]

I'm all for fresh blood when required but Dekka leaves a massive hole knowledge wise and my main concern is I'm hoping we've already identified a replacement and a quality one at that if not we will pay for this decision

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Agree they were both busts but that was because of the injuries they had after arriving at Collingwood. Take the injuries away and we don't know if they were good picks. We never found out. Was just bad luck other bad pic king

Excuses. Excuses. Fact is Derek Hine had a good first few years when he picked up Pendles and Daisy in the same draft year, then followed it up a couple of years later with Sidey and Beams. De Goey and Maynard are in the only two that come to mind from high draft picks in the last 10 years or so. Hine virtually destroyed the draft picks he was gifted by Buckley when they regenerated the team. But for father - sons and clever trading we wouldn't have won our last premiership. We could have had Naughton, a Collingwood supporter, instead of the clown we recruited in Stephenson. He chose Demattia instead of Morris, who goes to Brisbane and becomes a premiership player. Just go back to Buckley's last premiership shot and who do we line up against Kennedy at full-back, a wingman in Goldsack, because we ran out of key position players. I could go on and on; he chooses Ruscoe instead of Riccardi. Basically Hine had a love of half-back flankers and slow mids. After he got over his love of slow mids in favor of speed, he overlooked Cripps and later said he made a mistake. Hine should have gone years ago. It's cost us dearly.

 

[Couch Coach]

Excuses. Excuses. Fact is Derek Hine had a good first few years when he picked up Pendles and Daisy in the same draft year, then followed it up a couple of years later with Sidey and Beams. De Goey and Maynard are in the only two that come to mind from high draft picks in the last 10 years or so. Hine virtually destroyed the draft picks he was gifted by Buckley when they regenerated the team. But for father - sons and clever trading we wouldn't have won our last premiership. We could have had Naughton, a Collingwood supporter, instead of the clown we recruited in Stephenson. He chose Demattia instead of Morris, who goes to Brisbane and becomes a premiership player. Just go back to Buckley's last premiership shot and who do we line up against Kennedy at full-back, a wingman in Goldsack, because we ran out of key position players. I could go on and on; he chooses Ruscoe instead of Riccardi. Basically Hine had a love of half-back flankers and slow mids. After he got over his love of slow mids in favor of speed, he overlooked Cripps and later said he made a mistake. Hine should have gone years ago. It's cost us dearly.

1. Naughton = yes
2. Demattia = Too early to say. Morris may be a premiership player but that doesn't automatically make him better. Is Patrick Lipinski better than Nathan Buckley? Only one has a flag.
3. 2018 GF = Injuries happen. Moore, Madgen, Reid, Dunn. You can't cover all options.
4. Ruscoe = No. Ruscoe was drafted with pick 55. Riccardi was pick 51
5. Cripps = 10 other clubs also drafted players other than Cripps (Jack Billings, Kade Kolodjashnij, James Aish, Luke McDonald, Ben Lennon). Hine is on record as wanting Bontemelli but the dogs jumped in first.

 

[No SPIN]

We won a flag in each of those eras as well as many finals and prelims. I think it was only Geelong who made more prelims than us during his time.

Last couple years have had more misses than hits. Overall he’s done a great job.

Agree - we've had this debate endlessly including for critics to offer peers who have better records of finals, top 4, PF, GF and Flags than Hine, and their response is "crickets".

 

[No SPIN]

Excuses. Excuses. Fact is Derek Hine had a good first few years when he picked up Pendles and Daisy in the same draft year, then followed it up a couple of years later with Sidey and Beams. De Goey and Maynard are in the only two that come to mind from high draft picks in the last 10 years or so. Hine virtually destroyed the draft picks he was gifted by Buckley when they regenerated the team. But for father - sons and clever trading we wouldn't have won our last premiership. We could have had Naughton, a Collingwood supporter, instead of the clown we recruited in Stephenson. He chose Demattia instead of Morris, who goes to Brisbane and becomes a premiership player. Just go back to Buckley's last premiership shot and who do we line up against Kennedy at full-back, a wingman in Goldsack, because we ran out of key position players. I could go on and on; he chooses Ruscoe instead of Riccardi. Basically Hine had a love of half-back flankers and slow mids. After he got over his love of slow mids in favor of speed, he overlooked Cripps and later said he made a mistake. Hine should have gone years ago. It's cost us dearly.

How many others passed on Morris ? You may as well bag all of those recruiters so it wasn't just Hine.

 

[Pistol Night]

Agree - we've had this debate endlessly including for critics to offer peers who have a better records of finals, top 4, PF, GF and Flags than Hine, and their response is "crickets".

We’re hard to please. Look at Carlton’s draft positions the past 20 years and what they’ve acheieved

 

[No SPIN]

Scharenberg was already injured when he was recruited from memory.

So was J. Selwood coming off a reco - swings and round abouts. Drafting is not an exact science.