Did Carlton made the right decision choosing Voss over Ross?

[Demonic Ascent]

Yes, yes they did. So disappointed they didn't flinch and sack Voss mid-year, they might have actually smartened up and could see some success in the near future unfortunately.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

If Brian Cook wasn’t at the club (Greg Williams as well from what I’ve heard) I’ve got no doubt the board would’ve flinched and succumbed to the pressure and sacked Voss. We would’ve been starting again effectively. I’m very glad that didn’t happen, and as someone who was very vocal in support of the coach, it’s been very hard to bite my tongue when mates who wanted his head are now hailing him as a genius.

I’d normally be skeptical about the extension they’re about to hand him, but I think it’s the right move. Stability has been key and we need to maintain it going forward. Really hope Cook decides to hang around after next season. I feel very comfortable if he and Williams are more or less in charge.

Anyway, to answer the thread question, I definitely think we made the right call.

 

[iBeng]

I remember the last time Voss won a finals for a club he coached...Ironically against Carlton at the time! Bundled out next round but hey, there was promise!

Then they completely ballsed up the trade period and the pain began anew!

 

[Worm4]

I remember the last time Voss won a finals for a club he coached...Ironically against Carlton at the time! Bundled out next round but hey, there was promise!

Then they completely ballsed up the trade period and the pain began anew!

I remember when the Brisbane Lions were the Brisbane Bears.

 

[iBeng]

I remember when the Brisbane Lions were the Brisbane Bears.

Quite well or...just bearly?

 

[Arr0w]

Was interesting reading some of tge opinions in this thread

Season approaching, OP is still relevant I guess

 

[Gavin Excell]

Was interesting reading some of tge opinions in this thread

Season approaching, OP is still relevant I guess

It is intriguing
It's possible that it's a win win for both clubs?

 

[Cyclops]

Ross Lyon sides epitomise competitive medicority.

Never in contention, never rebuilding. Stuck in the middle on the road to nowhere.

Defense oriented. Rarely kick more than 10 goals in a game. Painful to watch.

I'd prefer Mick Malthouse.

Its interesting how this thread aged.

Early in the year commentators like Gerard Whateley (who is an excellent slick caller and numbers man, but analysis? lol) were frothing about the value of a seasoned coach with the scar tissue to run a club with brutal efficiency. Voss was being more or less trussed up for the kill, as much by some Carlton and ex-Carlton people as the media.

Now we see St Kilda is settling into a same old pattern of ugly non-football that loses finals.

At least Voss has some open-ended spark to him, and the board has shut their stupid yaps and done their jobs. Carlton still has it in them to self destruct, I'm told there's still a bunch of the Pratt and Elliot loyalists stinking the place up, but the current mob in charge have a headlock on them for now. Is this true? It's hard to tell one suit from another, but with a couple of women in the door its clear the Elliot people have lost some ground.

No one wants to see Carlton succeed but frankly even Collingwood people were starting to feel sorry for them the way the place was going. I've been saying for decades we should enjoy Carlton's decline while we can because "they'll be back": maybe its true this time.

 

[Smithdogmaddog]

Find it really hard to say as they have a very talented list and Ross has shown with a list with high top end talent and lack of depth he can get them to a grand final. have pretty much maxed out their salary cap, free agents and trade targets, I’ve done my ladder predictor and have them finishing 3rd.

 

[JackFlash]

Ross wants to be the boss of everything and let people know it. Carlton runs differently, the power brokers behind the scenes still like to think they have some sort of say in what's going on despite the lack of success over the past 28 years! Ross can ruffle all the feathers he wants at the Saints and get away with it.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Pretty hard to say.

2023 results show Voss had a shaky start but performed well with a talented list. Ross extracted finals from a pretty average list, which is a huge feat in itself.

I still have little doubt that Ross is the better tactician and is the more 'talented' coach. He comes with extra baggage though - the ego, the politics, the powerbroking...it's something that has the potential to stabilise the club and erode the harmony and loyalty amongst the players.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Was interesting reading some of tge opinions in this thread

Season approaching, OP is still relevant I guess

Still relevant, I’m still in the RTB camp.
I feel blues list is perfect for his style.
Hard running mids good key forwards
Blues finishing higher in 2023 doesn’t finish the discussion because I feel blues have a lot better list.

 

[Arr0w]

Still relevant, I’m still in the RTB camp.
I feel blues list is perfect for his style.
Hard running mids good key forwards
Blues finishing higher in 2023 doesn’t finish the discussion because I feel blues have a lot better list.

I agree, it's ongoing

I mentioned at the time that I believe Ross would give a side greater consistency in output in a shorter timeframe.

just not convinced he can take a side to the ultimate prize before burning players out

 

[Cyclops]

Still relevant, I’m still in the RTB camp.
I feel blues list is perfect for his style.
Hard running mids good key forwards
Blues finishing higher in 2023 doesn’t finish the discussion because I feel blues have a lot better list.

That's a very fair point. We saw what Ross could fo with reasonably talented lists twice, and Grand Finals are possible.

Voss sides have a dip, and give their opposition a shot too. It's aesthetically more pleasing.

So I'm biased.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Blues have a better list so hard to tell who's doing better. Imo Ross probably the better Coach but I don't think he's what the club needed with Cook and Sayers already there in terms of leadership.

I think Voss will be heavily reliant on his assistants to have success as he doesn't come across as a brilliant footy mind, more just a great leader of men.

Ross a bit the opposite but I've always loved listening to the campaigner

 

[Fadge]

Ross at St. Kilda the first time around - years 2, 3, and 4 were all top 4 finishes including 2 x Grand Finals.

Ross at Fremantle in years 2, 3 and 4 were all top 4 finishes, including a Grand Final and Minor Premiership.

Voss in years 3, 4 and 5 at Brisbane - 15th, 13th, 12th.

Carlton supporters wouldn't be wanting history to repeat...

 

[Juddernaut08]

Ross at St. Kilda the first time around - years 2, 3, and 4 were all top 4 finishes including 2 x Grand Finals.

Ross at Fremantle in years 2, 3 and 4 were all top 4 finishes, including a Grand Final and Minor Premiership.

Voss in years 3, 4 and 5 at Brisbane - 15th, 13th, 12th.

Carlton supporters wouldn't be wanting history to repeat...

Ross is the more talented coach, no doubt.

He seems to cause havoc and leaves hot messes though - if he doesn't deliver a flag is it worth it? That's the question.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

No. A first round finals appearance as opposed to a Prelim is far more satisfying.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Imo Ross probably the better Coach but I don't think he's what the club needed with Cook and Sayers already there in terms of leadership.

Good point, having Cook there almost guarantees finals at a minimum, don't want anyone rocking his boat

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tim_saints]

Ross is the more talented coach, no doubt.

He seems to cause havoc and leaves hot messes though - if he doesn't deliver a flag is it worth it? That's the question.

This is one of the most over blown myths about Ross, we literally had an alcoholic running our football club and flipping Chris Pelchen as list manager who I’ve not seen or heard of since he left us.

The fact everyone puts the mess St Kilda was left in all on Ross is laughable, he cares deeply about his players and will protect them at all costs, the club off field was an absolute shambles and we really only recently have sorted that out.

Ross is a Chapman kick and a bounce of the ball away from being a multiple premiership winning coach vs two of the better sides the last 25 years, one arguably the best side of the last 25 years.

You’ve got to be in it to win it, he gives us a chance to be in it, hopefully next time we can win it.

 

[Cyclops]

This is one of the most over blown myths about Ross, we literally had an alcoholic running our football club and *ing Chris Pelchen as list manager who I’ve not seen or heard of since he left us.

The fact everyone puts the mess St Kilda was left in all on Ross is laughable, he cares deeply about his players and will protect them at all costs, the club off field was an absolute shambles and we really only recently have sorted that out.

Ross is a Chapman kick and a bounce of the ball away from being a multiple premiership winning coach vs two of the better sides the last 25 years, one arguably the best side of the last 25 years.

You’ve got to be in it to win it, he gives us a chance to be in it, hopefully next time we can win it.

That may be, and I certainly didn't know those details so thx. I know Ross inherited a less than ideal team culture from Grant Thomas too, apparently that bloke was something a manipulative white ant. Or was that Butters again? That would support your thesis.

Lyon had a similar situation at Freo, turned them into an ugly side that went close, and then the team stagnated and fell apart. It could be coincidence, but you can see why outsiders might feel he has a negative effect long term.

 

[ChristianBoy]

Ross is the more talented coach, no doubt.

He seems to cause havoc and leaves hot messes though - if he doesn't deliver a flag is it worth it? That's the question.

Unlike Voss who left Brisbane flying.

 

[Tandy]

Yes they did. Both are crazy no doubt. But you don't want a coach who is doing what Ross is doing and take over the whole club. It leaves teams in ruins. Or atleast dismantled. Look at Bevo right now.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

It’s the glass half full / half empty view that you can have with Lyon.
You could say ultimately he’s failed as he’s had two massive cracks at the big one and didn’t achieve that at either club.
After finishing at either both lists were left pretty much bottom 4 calibre.
Both departures would be described as ugly.
You can’t on one hand say he’s a control freak that culls anybody whom isn’t on his page and on the other blame others for list deficiencies they may or may not have had.

Can he coach, most definitely
Has he achieved success, that’s debatable
Has he left either club better for being there? Hmmmm…..

 

[tim_saints]

That may be, and I certainly didn't know those details so thx. I know Ross inherited a less than ideal team culture from Grant Thomas too, apparently that bloke was something a manipulative white ant. Or was that Butters again? That would support your thesis.

Lyon had a similar situation at Freo, turned them into an ugly side that went close, and then the team stagnated and fell apart. It could be coincidence, but you can see why outsiders might feel he has a negative effect long term.

The whole culture at St Kilda or even the afl at that point in time was different, can’t compare then to now, I know it’s only like 10-15 years ago but it’s really changed so much since then

People have to remember the defensive style that comes with having Ross as your HC was probably leant on more last year due to the lack of cattle we had out on the park, we had so many key injuries last year
We’ve added pace and gained plenty back this season so although the game style will still come off the back of a strong defensive emphasis, I think you’ll see us play a lot faster in transition.

I can’t imagine how good weitering would be under Ross, I’m a huge weitering fan I think he’s a star but he’s lacked help all throughout his career, in that defensive structure he’d thrive, just look at Wilkie and how he patrols our backline.