Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[js47]

William went missing (or whatever) between the time the NSWPOL believe 10.05 ?
FM went to look for William found him took him inside via front or carport door hid him (police searchers did not do a good job on the house come on).
FM panics need to take car and find FF
FGM walked down the yard to look for FM (she heard her car go out) sees neighbour
FM drove left out if Benaroon she was telling the truth.
She was going to find FF head him off to tell him what happened before he got home saw truck go past on BCR she was in a side street because it is a dangerous road.
Waited then went to call him realised she did not have her phone
Drove back ran in side to get the phone saw the Message
FF arrived home
Told him he was missing asked if he saw him pretending he was missing
He went ballistic
That night over wine told him the truth
He collapsed ambulance called
Maybe given light sedative
FGM stayed up to stay with little William’s remains
FF was up early wee hours to solve a problem

I don’t know why they looked at BCR some one may have seen some one else there not FM at a different time?
Who took FGM away?

 

[shorsky]

I think she probably DID have mental health issues before 2014, as supposedly "SD was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother, so that would have occurred in childhood presumably. Then the current issues were related to "the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said." We know nothing about any difficult circumstances involved with the loss of her Mother.

So, nothing to do with the loss of WT apparently.

I found the statement from FM that ‘FF was constantly in touch with FGM and he would arrange for us to go up there….. ‘
Why ?
Why wasn’t it FM checking in regularly with her Mum ?

Was FF striving to keep some sort of relationship in place - perhaps so the kids had that extended family .

I’m no doubt way off on a wild tangent - however I’ve had a feeling that relationships had been strained for a very long time between FM and the others in her family.
Did any of the Kendall brothers show up to support or search for William ?
The Sister flew up but I think that may have been more to support FGM.
Have any of her siblings been at court to provide support or to show that they care ?

She may have been a ‘challenging child’, which may have impacted relationships. …perhaps her father better understood her, but then early 2014 he was gone . ..

In that scenario, his loss would have been extra hard on both FM & FGM, and there would have been the potential for more volatile communications, without FGF there to smooth things over.

I think forensic testing techniques might actually be now good enough to find any trace if he had ever been lying injured or dead below the verandah, or ever under the garage floor, or ever in the boot or on the floor of FGM's car, or ever in the bushland that was searched by cadaver dogs. I don't know whether any trace could remain in the tanks - maybe not? And it's possible he might have been removed by wild dogs or other feral animals, which I suppose would not be detectable

Quite possible for a small child to meet their death but leave no blood etc. Head injuries are most prevalent…. the result of either accidental or deliberate acts. Bleeding can all be contained internally.

Children can sustain severe head injuries in play if they fall or cop a severe blow to the head or temple area with a bat or ball etc ; whiplash can be fatal; violent shaking of children can jar the brain and cause tearing of internal tissue and blood vessels.

 

[shorsky]

I'd think not (that's why it was in inverted commas), but it's a fairly irrelevant untruth in my eyes anyway.

Police think he went missing at 10:10.

If she drove after talking with AMS, she had 16 minutes (10:40 - 10:56) less the time it took to run to the bus stop.

If she drove prior, she had to be back by 10:33. She obviously took some time after 10:10 to realise he'd gone missing - she says 5 minutes, let's say 7 minutes. 10:17 to 10:33 is also 16 minutes.

What advantage does she get by "lying"? You could argue she has slightly more time to drive if she has "lied" (because no run to the bus stop), but it is negligible.

I want to hear more about why Beacroft thought he went missing at 10.10 am before I feel confident about that.

 

[31550]

When you drive along Batar Creek Rd and reach the Cobb & Co Rd intersection, there are a number of roads, tracks and driveways which appear to be accessible via vehicle, including a couple which lead into parts of the 'Summerwood' property itself. If a person in a small car with William turned onto one of these roads or tracks they would be out of sight from traffic on Batar Creek Rd (including Peter the truck driver), and would have access to a number of dense scrub locations, as well as some shedding and small buildings on Summerwood and nearby properties. Would it be possible for William to have been left in this area temporarily? Say, for a few hours overnight?
The person who took William might have waited out of sight until no traffic was on Batar Creek Road, then driven off.
That person, or someone else with knowledge of William's location may have returned overnight or early next morning, possibly in a different vehicle, and moved him permanently?
My question is whether the Day 1 search extended as far as Cobb & Co Rd or not. Would any of these sheds or outhouses have been searched on the very first day William disappeared? Or would that not have taken place until much later in the investigation?

 

[js47]

When William went ‘missing’ or not she may/may not have been in a fragile state. So her personality in the past was to make up narratives to deal with situations. To her this was not lying.
A time line to her may never exist.
The FF said he would help her pack to go away.

 

[js47]

When you drive along Batar Creek Rd and reach the Cobb & Co Rd intersection, there are a number of roads, tracks and driveways which appear to be accessible via vehicle, including a couple which lead into parts of the 'Summerwood' property itself. If a person in a small car with William turned onto one of these roads or tracks they would be out of sight from traffic on Batar Creek Rd (including Peter the truck driver), and would have access to a number of dense scrub locations, as well as some shedding and small buildings on Summerwood and nearby properties. Would it be possible for William to have been left in this area temporarily? Say, for a few hours overnight?
The person who took William might have waited out of sight until no traffic was on Batar Creek Road, then driven off.
That person, or someone else with knowledge of William's location may have returned overnight or early next morning, possibly in a different vehicle, and moved him permanently?
My question is whether the Day 1 search extended as far as Cobb & Co Rd or not. Would any of these sheds or outhouses have been searched on the very first day William disappeared? Or would that not have taken place until much later in the investigation?

I (think)?there is information around I have seen where you can see streets searched. Hope you can find it.
Sorry I cannot help just had third eye surgery all good from now on.

 

[js47]

31550 I just keyed in detailed street map William Tyrrell search - images
You find it

 

[31550]

31550 I just keyed in detailed street map William Tyrrell search - images
You find it

Looks like they only searched around Benaroon Drive during the first week.

 

[js47]

FM recently commented about digging and finding William in 20 years etc.
There is an estate going in at the bottom of Benaroon dv. and also a round about.

 

[31550]

FM recently commented about digging and finding William in 20 years etc.
There is an estate going in at the bottom of Benaroon dv. and also a round about.

I think he was quickly and temporarily moved in a vehicle before 10.30am on the 12th.
I think he was relocated later, say on the 12th / early morning the 13th to a more secure, more remote location, again in a vehicle.
William was very small - could have been easily carried a short distance by an adult on foot.
He may not have left a trail of forensic evidence. Possibly no blood, may have been wrapped in something.
Wherever he was left temporarily was outside the initial search area, and may have never been searched thoroughly.
IMO

 

[Wallace52]

I think he was quickly and temporarily moved in a vehicle before 10.30am on the 12th.
I think he was relocated later, say on the 12th / early morning the 13th to a more secure, more remote location, again in a vehicle.
William was very small - could have been easily carried a short distance by an adult on foot.
He may not have left a trail of forensic evidence. Possibly no blood, may have been wrapped in something.
Wherever he was left temporarily was outside the initial search area, and may have never been searched thoroughly.
IMO

I think this is definitely possible.

I think it’s a good point in time for LE to start looking at why the FF was out of the house before 6am on 13 September and what he was doing and where he was.

That question was not put to him in the 2016 grilling by Jubes.
“Where were you on the morning of 13 September 2014?”

 

[Lady O]

When you drive along Batar Creek Rd and reach the Cobb & Co Rd intersection, there are a number of roads, tracks and driveways which appear to be accessible via vehicle, including a couple which lead into parts of the 'Summerwood' property itself. If a person in a small car with William turned onto one of these roads or tracks they would be out of sight from traffic on Batar Creek Rd (including Peter the truck driver), and would have access to a number of dense scrub locations, as well as some shedding and small buildings on Summerwood and nearby properties. Would it be possible for William to have been left in this area temporarily? Say, for a few hours overnight?
The person who took William might have waited out of sight until no traffic was on Batar Creek Road, then driven off.
That person, or someone else with knowledge of William's location may have returned overnight or early next morning, possibly in a different vehicle, and moved him permanently?
My question is whether the Day 1 search extended as far as Cobb & Co Rd or not. Would any of these sheds or outhouses have been searched on the very first day William disappeared? Or would that not have taken place until much later in the investigation?

This one?

 

[Awakening]

What time did FF leave the house on the 13th September? 6am or earlier? What time did the sun come up?

 

[stormbird]

<snipped>
My question is whether the Day 1 search extended as far as Cobb & Co Rd or not. Would any of these sheds or outhouses have been searched on the very first day William disappeared? Or would that not have taken place until much later in the investigation?

The "riding school" was said to have been searched Day 1, but obviously that's not the whole length of Cobb & Co Road, if that's what you mean.

The riding school / Riding for the Disabled: at 158 Batar Creek Rd (which had a side boundary along Cobb & Co Rd), hosted by the owners of the property at the time, osteopath Peg and charity chairperson Theo:

"Osteopath Peg Landon said each day William is missing the community changes more.
Her property was one of the first searched on the Friday.
She has mostly cleared land, but it backs on to the Kendall State Forest where William may have wandered.*
She and husband Theo invited searchers to check sheds and dams immediately."

- from William Tyrell search is not over, Port Macquarie News, 24 Dec 2014 (paywalled; I saved the text some years ago but now can't check the article)

*I think it's unlikely William would have wandered into Kendall State Forest (I don't recall anyone else suggesting he might have) and 158 Batar Creek Road does not back onto it anyway, so presumably this is misinformation from the reporter.

Also, see the map showing the lists of searchers per property - presumably in the first few days, I'm guessing, but I haven't seen anyone put dates to it. The riding school is at the bottom, partially cropped:

From News.com.au, 31 March 2019

 

[js47]

This one?

View attachment 2183713

Not good enough Jan the search area should have been wider. IMO

 

[js47]

The "riding school" was said to have been searched Day 1, but obviously that's not the whole length of Cobb & Co Road, if that's what you mean.

The riding school / Riding for the Disabled: at 158 Batar Creek Rd (which had a side boundary along Cobb & Co Rd), hosted by the owners of the property at the time, osteopath Peg and charity chairperson Theo:

"Osteopath Peg Landon said each day William is missing the community changes more.
Her property was one of the first searched on the Friday.
She has mostly cleared land, but it backs on to the Kendall State Forest where William may have wandered.*
She and husband Theo invited searchers to check sheds and dams immediately."

- from William Tyrell search is not over, Port Macquarie News, 24 Dec 2014 (paywalled; I saved the text some years ago but now can't check the article)

*I think it's unlikely William would have wandered into Kendall State Forest (I don't recall anyone else suggesting he might have) and 158 Batar Creek Road does not back onto it anyway, so presumably this is misinformation from the reporter.

Also, see the map showing the lists of searchers per property - presumably in the first few days, I'm guessing, but I haven't seen anyone put dates to it. The riding school is at the bottom, partially cropped:

From News.com.au, 31 March 2019

 

[js47]

Stormbird you are a champ for that nap

 

[js47]

Sorry CodyRose I get it about the sister now.
You are right it would be interesting to have a chat about their childhood maybe.

 

[stormbird]

<snipped>

Quite possible for a small child to meet their death but leave no blood etc. Head injuries are most prevalent…. the result of either accidental or deliberate acts. Bleeding can all be contained internally.

Children can sustain severe head injuries in play if they fall or cop a severe blow to the head or temple area with a bat or ball etc ; whiplash can be fatal; violent shaking of children can jar the brain and cause tearing of internal tissue and blood vessels.

I'm just guessing about this: I think that blood is not the only body fluid or carrier of DNA or other evidence which might be found where someone had lain after death from a fall. I suppose it's unlikely that many things would still be present for detection years later, but who knows. Hypothetically: blood, sweat, urine, saliva, vomit, hair, clothing fibres (though maybe not from a polyester Spiderman suit).

 

[stormbird]

Not good enough Jan the search area should have been wider. IMO

It was wider. That was Search Area One (in the 2018 forensic search) and this was Search Area Two:

from The Australian, Aug 2019 (paywalled)

 

[CodyRose]

Young hope statement was the wanted quality carers. Mmmm! Wonder what their quality criteria was?

Maybe postcodes around 2444 received a high rating

 

[CodyRose]

I think this is definitely possible.

I think it’s a good point in time for LE to start looking at why the FF was out of the house before 6am on 13 September and what he was doing and where he was.

That question was not put to him in the 2016 grilling by Jubes.
“Where were you on the morning of 13 September 2014?”

Yes I definitely don’t think the FM knows where William is.

 

[Wallace52]

Yes I definitely don’t think the FM knows where William is.

Why?

 

[js47]

Looks like they only searched around Benaroon Drive during the first week.

OMG, Well what good was that? What if Will was only in the area for less than 24 hours

 

[js47]

I think this is definitely possible.

I think it’s a good point in time for LE to start looking at why the FF was out of the house before 6am on 13 September and what he was doing and where he was.

That question was not put to him in the 2016 grilling by Jubes.
“Where were you on the morning of 13 September 2014?”

I don’t think June’s will have time he will probably be at lunch.