Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Awakening]

I feel like the cops should

*get a Mazda and replicate it to test temperature

Or

*use the FGM that they have in their custody and test the bonnet temp and test the volume and sound of that particular car driving up from 48 and the right school.

They have FGM in their custody?

 

[js47]

I feel like the cops should

*get a Mazda and replicate it to test temperature

Or

*use the FGM that they have in their custody and test the bonnet temp and test the volume and sound of that particular car driving up from 48 and the right school.

A few months back quite a few of us did this test.

 

[js47]

They have FGM in their custody?

In custody? They can find her anytime they want. The only problem she probably won’t be co-operative. They let that one slip through their net.

 

[js47]

I wonder if the CC asked FM a detailed time line for FGM!s Morning? Then cross referenced.
It would be hard enough to stick to your own and get it straight if you were being evasive . Then add what you want FGM doing.
And! If that was not enough add FF.

 

[Awakening]

In custody? They can find her anytime they want. The only problem she probably won’t be co-operative. They let that one slip through their net.

 

[InTheBleachers]

So it’s a theoretical approximate time that is created when investigators look at a photo in a forensic lab?

In 2014 there were at least 106 cameras with in-built GPS.

In the EXIF data there is GPS timestamping showing what time the location of the photo was recorded. Geotagging.

Created time of when the incorrect camera time recorded the photo: 7:39am
Corrected time of when the accurate GPS recorded the photo location: 9:37am

List of cameras which provide geotagging - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When exactly is "GPSTimeStamp"?

I'm trying to use EXIF data from my photos, and I discovered the wonders of the tag "EXIF GPS GPSTimeStamp" (a timezone-independent timestamp). However, I notice that it's often different from "EXIF

photo.stackexchange.com

 

[shorsky]

When you drive along Batar Creek Rd and reach the Cobb & Co Rd intersection, there are a number of roads, tracks and driveways which appear to be accessible via vehicle, including a couple which lead into parts of the 'Summerwood' property itself. If a person in a small car with William turned onto one of these roads or tracks they would be out of sight from traffic on Batar Creek Rd (including Peter the truck driver), and would have access to a number of dense scrub locations, as well as some shedding and small buildings on Summerwood and nearby properties. Would it be possible for William to have been left in this area temporarily? Say, for a few hours overnight?
The person who took William might have waited out of sight until no traffic was on Batar Creek Road, then driven off.
That person, or someone else with knowledge of William's location may have returned overnight or early next morning, possibly in a different vehicle, and moved him permanently?
My question is whether the Day 1 search extended as far as Cobb & Co Rd or not. Would any of these sheds or outhouses have been searched on the very first day William disappeared? Or would that not have taken place until much later in the investigation?

From my memory, the search of Batar Creek area came later.
The initial search focused on the area & bushland surrounding FGMs in response to the thought that William had wandered off and become lost - but happy to have my dodgy memory corrected!

 

[shorsky]

I'm just guessing about this: I think that blood is not the only body fluid or carrier of DNA or other evidence which might be found where someone had lain after death from a fall. I suppose it's unlikely that many things would still be present for detection years later, but who knows. Hypothetically: blood, sweat, urine, saliva, vomit, hair, clothing fibres (though maybe not from a polyester Spiderman suit).

Body Fluids would be a possible indicator of ‘injury’.

I would expect that examination of an area where even a healthy child was playing would indicate their presence also no doubt skin particles, hair, clothing fibres etc. I don’t think those things alone would ‘help’ in this situation. .. sadly.

Having said that, a lack of that evidence may raise questions e.g. where exactly did you say he ran and played ? did you follow him to see where he was playing / what he was playing ? did you give him any cautionary reminders? what did you do them ? ……..

 

[shorsky]

New theory: the blonde woman that Peter the truck driver saw is the person FM handed William over to.

TBH every theory is a possibility at the moment (imo)

If there was Human involvement, the initial Bungled investigation provided them huge opportunities imo.

However re the blond lady that Peter referred to, I think we had people adamant that she was in fact the Post Lady..

Surely, and despite the early f….ups, she was eventually checked out.

 

[Wallace52]

There’s been over 60’000 hours of covert surveillance recorded by police on the foster parents.

“in December 2020, William's foster nana died. William's foster parents suspected a cop who turned up at the funeral was wearing a wire, and they're not wrong about being under surveillance.

The police put five listening devices and two cameras in place in the foster parents' home, plus intercepts on their mobile phones. And these run for nearly a full year, meaning in total something over 60,000 hours of surveillance. From which the cops gather over a thousand hours of recordings.”

From Witness: William Tyrrell: The Suspect | 10, 9 Dec 2024

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[Wallace52]

However re the blond lady that Peter referred to, I think we had people adamant that she was in fact the Post Lady..

Surely, and despite the early f….ups, she was eventually checked out.

No, I don’t think the blonde lady would have been checked out. Not at all.

 

[shorsky]

In 2014 there were at least 106 cameras with in-built GPS.

In the EXIF data there is GPS timestamping showing what time the location of the photo was recorded. Geotagging.

Created time of when the incorrect camera time recorded the photo: 7:39am
Corrected time of when the accurate GPS recorded the photo location: 9:37am

List of cameras which provide geotagging - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When exactly is "GPSTimeStamp"?

I'm trying to use EXIF data from my photos, and I discovered the wonders of the tag "EXIF GPS GPSTimeStamp" (a timezone-independent timestamp). However, I notice that it's often different from "EXIF

photo.stackexchange.com

OMG thank you

I was going to ask about the camera’s ability to autocorrect in accordance with GPS data - but then doubted my reasoning since I’’m a technology numpty !

 

[Wallace52]

“This search for evidence in the car and outside Kendall takes place months after that front page story saying police are confident they've cracked the case. And those detectives told William's foster mother, we know why it happened, we know how it happened, and we know where he is.

Um, they were looking for evidence.

So how long did they have the car for?

Over 12 months. They said it had to go to the panel beater, and they sent me through the panel beater's report.

So they'd done enough work to the car that it had to be substantially repaired afterwards.

Yeah, but it seems to me that almost every panel in the car was replaced.

I've seen the list of repairs to that Mazda. The front bumper, the headlights, new door handles, new door mirror, new rear bumper, new cabin and boot trims. The list goes on.

It looks like the police took that car to pieces and found nothing, which is all the police find in their excavation of the area around Kendall where William was reported missing. At which point, you have to ask, when does legitimate police investigation and putting pressure on a suspect trip[…]”

From Witness: William Tyrrell: The Suspect | 10, 9 Dec 2024

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[31550]

In 2014 there were at least 106 cameras with in-built GPS.

In the EXIF data there is GPS timestamping showing what time the location of the photo was recorded. Geotagging.

Created time of when the incorrect camera time recorded the photo: 7:39am
Corrected time of when the accurate GPS recorded the photo location: 9:37am

List of cameras which provide geotagging - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When exactly is "GPSTimeStamp"?

I'm trying to use EXIF data from my photos, and I discovered the wonders of the tag "EXIF GPS GPSTimeStamp" (a timezone-independent timestamp). However, I notice that it's often different from "EXIF

photo.stackexchange.com

FMs digital camera did not have GPS.

 

[31550]

Body Fluids would be a possible indicator of ‘injury’.

I would expect that examination of an area where even a healthy child was playing would indicate their presence also no doubt skin particles, hair, clothing fibres etc. I don’t think those things alone would ‘help’ in this situation. .. sadly.

Having said that, a lack of that evidence may raise questions e.g. where exactly did you say he ran and played ? did you follow him to see where he was playing / what he was playing ? did you give him any cautionary reminders? what did you do them ? ……..

Way too late for all of that.
DNA evidence at FGMs house would be meaningless anyway - he was supposed to be there and had been there before. Even finding William's DNA on a nearby property doesn't PROVE anything other than he was there for a time.
DNA evidence elsewhere could be significant, but where? You can't sample tonnes and tonnes of earth and vegetation looking for tiny bits of human DNA - you have to start with something that looks like human remains - blood, bone or flesh. Across hectares of bushland. Where there might be many animal remains. After so many years the chance of finding a viable DNA sample diminishes.

DNA in FGM car would similarly be inconclusive - could be argued William was a passenger in the car or played in the car on a previous visit.

But William's DNA in the boot might have been suggestive of something sinister. However viable DNA in the boot would only still be there after 10 years if he had an open wound and bled, and it was not cleaned up properly. If he didn't bleed, or was wrapped in something there'd be no viable DNA present.

 

[js47]

OMG thank you

I was going to ask about the camera’s ability to autocorrect in accordance with GPS data - but then doubted my reasoning since I’’m a technology numpty !

No Shorsky you are not a tech numpty. Technology moves do fast I would challenge any one who said they were an expert.

 

[js47]

When the NSWPOL were looking under rocks for DNA I wonder if they checked higher up in case he hit the ferns coming down?
He could snag his clothes then there would be fibres.
They believed he had a fall well did they swab the railing for finger prints and DNA in September 2014? Let’s hope they would do that now.
I thought it was a strange photo of every one on the high balcony.
Especially the person (FF) sitting on the stool.
I wonder whose decision it was to go there? And why ALL the fosters?

 

[Cataholic]

No Shorsky you are not a tech numpty. Technology moves do fast I would challenge any one who said they were an expert.

I'm still trying to understand how it all works together, so I'll ask a (dumb?) question....

What happens if the camera can't access GPS at the time of photo, and maybe for some time thereafter?

 

[js47]

Wallace, Do you know if the family got the FGM car back?
Do you know if they questioned the family member about any items that were in the car when they received it?
I wonder WHO actually gave it to the family member? If the car was used to disappear William they would have it shmick. But if it was not used then they would probably not care about its condition.
I don’t trust the police look at the mess with Lindy Ch.

YOU HAVE TO QUESTION THE LEVEL OF ABILITY OF THE PERSON DOING THE RESEARCH. not saying they are incompetent just the level.

 

[js47]

I'm still trying to understand how it all works together, so I'll ask a (dumb?) question....

What happens if the camera can't access GPS at the time of photo, and maybe for some time thereafter?

Good one I don’t know enough about it but GPS triangulates by satellites.

 

[stormbird]

ep. 10 "The Suspect", Witness: William Tyrrell, 09 Dec 2024, from about 1:03:25 minutes, but the time might need adjustment if the ads change? (Transcript is by the Omny thing, with a bit of editing by me.)

Dan Box: "I mentioned how the police sent a brief of evidence to the state's Director of Public Prosecutions, seeking advice on whether to charge William's foster mother over disposing of his body.

Well, the DPP did look at it and started asking questions. The detectives were sent back to talk to some of the witnesses again, asking things like 'Did William's foster mother have access to any other cars that morning?'.

That took days, which turned into weeks, which turned into months - then silence. And then the New South Wales Police Force asked the DPP to suspend its consideration of the brief of evidence until the end of the inquest into William's disappearance, which is still running and will now come back next week for what it says will be its final hearing"...

 

[Cataholic]

Good one I don’t know enough about it but GPS triangulates by satellites.

It does, but the link to satellites can be disrupted if the device doesn't have a 'clear line of sight'.

How is the time resolved if, say, a photo is taken but the device can't be located by GPS for the next 2 hours?

 

[CodyRose]

Why?

Not sure if FGM’s car bonnet being warm has been confirmed but doing some reading and once a bonnet heats up it generally takes 30-45 mins to totally cool.

Wonder how long to get down to warm?

 

[Cataholic]

ep. 10 "The Suspect", Witness: William Tyrrell, 09 Dec 2024, from about 1:03:25 minutes, but the time might need adjustment if the ads change? (Transcript is by the Omny thing, with a bit of editing by me.)

Dan Box: "I mentioned how the police sent a brief of evidence to the state's Director of Public Prosecutions, seeking advice on whether to charge William's foster mother over disposing of his body.

Well, the DPP did look at it and started asking questions. The detectives were sent back to talk to some of the witnesses again, asking things like 'Did William's foster mother have access to any other cars that morning?'.

That took days, which turned into weeks, which turned into months - then silence. And then the New South Wales Police Force asked the DPP to suspend its consideration of the brief of evidence until the end of the inquest into William's disappearance, which is still running and will now come back next week for what it says will be its final hearing"...

150 pages redacted.

This bloody inquest is becoming more about the squabbling within the police force, its differences with the colonial staff, and all their egos rather than William.

 

[Cataholic]

Wonder how long to get down to warm?

It'd be dependent on ambient temps, wind, and the weather conditions on that specific day etc.....wouldn't it??