Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[31550]

From what I posted previously yes it's very possible. A computer search of key strokes may detect that something was done after the day but before camera handed in. But even then you could use a different computer. So it's not something that police could detect

There is no way to perform a 'computer search of key strokes' unless some special keylogging software is preinstalled on the computer (before the keys are pressed). Without such software installed, key strokes' do not get stored anywhere. Police would have to travel back in time to do this. But I suppose anything is possible

 

[Angry Red Bull]

No idea if there's any truth to this, I did have the sisters name at one point but I don't recall what it is now. It might be interesting or a coincidence that the possibility the sister may know something was raised in this thread as a bit of a guess, a couple of months ago.

From one of the facebook groups, posted a couple of days ago.

View attachment 1864862

If this is true it becomes VERY persuasive. Sure it doesn't PROVE anything but it's importance is the SOURCE. It's a family source and appears to have knowledge which is unlikely to be made up.

Would they tone down from say siblicide to accident? Possible. They wouldn't volunteer the former. Nevertheless its important

 

[31550]

"Assume nothing, believe nothing, check everything."- Ron Iddles.

I have for a long time assumed that William left the FGM property by vehicle. The evidence for this is that sniffer dogs apparently found no scent of William off the property. Dogs were on the scene in the afternoon, only a few hours after William was reported missing, so, we have assumed that if William had wandered on foot down Benaroon Drive, or on one of the trails into the forest, then dogs would have detected his scent.

But how effective were such dogs in Australia in 2014? Were they 'general purpose' sniffer dogs used for general crimes, or specifically trained to detect (missing) people? Or were they trained to only detect fresh blood? Did the many people on the property compromise the scent? What sample evidence (e.g. piece of clothing, toy,...) was given to the dogs to detect William? Who provided the sample? Were the dogs capable of differentiating William's scent from that of his sister, or the FM or FF? Would they detect William by his scent only, or would fresh blood be required?

Refer to the earlier case of Tyler Kennedy, which is mentioned in Ally Chumley's book. Sniffer dogs were brought in similarly and did not find Tyler, yet he was found by searchers the next day, not far away from where he disappeared.

Is it possible that the sniffer dogs 'missed' William's scent? On Benaroon drive or Batar Ck Rd? On FGMs car?

Maybe it is possible that William left the property on foot, either on his own or with another person or persons?

 

[Awakening]

I've no intention looking something up again just to satisfy you. if you don't believe me I couldn't give a crap. I'm not your personal errand boy

User name checks out

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Let's look at the time that morning. Per 10 podcast with Lia Harris episode 1.

• FF and WT up first watching TV 6.30
• FM and FD follow shortly
• WT and FD fight over use of a toy
• WT and FD wake FGM up. No time mentioned on podcast but in police walk through it was after 8 FF had already left

Per episode 1 the first thing they did was had breakfast and then followed

• bike riding
• mummy monster WT with FM
• climb tree
• mummy monster all 3
• play on verandah with dice, drawing
• daddy tiger

We know FF was caught CCTV around 8.40. that means he left 8.35 approx. Post 38 I estimated times to complete each play activity and breakfast. Tally was 2' 30" and if it started just after FF had left (because FGM said he wasn't there ) then it means a finish time of 10.55. Yet we know that WT search had started around 10.20. Could I have mis estimated? Yeah sure. Just as likely if not more( given the obvious anomaly with FGM chemist remarks) is the prospect that FGM was up at same time as them and was there before FF left but lied to be excluded as accomplice from what they all witnessed.

Makes logical sense to me. Kurve now has some social media posts from family to say it was negligent accident.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

User name checks out

More impatient and intolerant but yes.

 

[Awakening]

I think it’s possible FF could have left before 8 by car or by foot.

Looks like there’s a stack of off road tracks that FF was rumoured to be very familiar with.

But I’m not convinced the photo time has been tampered with and police have not picked that up by now.

If they had, I suppose it’s possible they haven’t told the public or media about it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think it’s possible FF could have left before 8 by car or by foot.

Looks like there’s a stack of off road tracks that FF was rumoured to be very familiar with.

But I’m not convinced the photo time has been tampered with and police have not picked that up by now.

If they had, I suppose it’s possible they haven’t told the public or media about it.

I keep coming back to WHY that full version of FGM video is available in public when the others aren't? One explanation is that's it's an intentional release. If so, WHY?

An explanation is they are on to the fact it happened earlier and they are trying to build pressure. Possible..

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think it’s possible FF could have left before 8 by car or by foot.

Looks like there’s a stack of off road tracks that FF was rumoured to be very familiar with.

But I’m not convinced the photo time has been tampered with and police have not picked that up by now.

If they had, I suppose it’s possible they haven’t told the public or media about it.

If you aren't convinced about the photos then it can't have happened any other way than between 9.37 and 10.20. I just don't believe it's enough time to accept death, and hatch a plan and execute. You'd barely be able to decide he was dead v unconscious..if it happened randomly between those two times on average you'd have little more than 24 minutes to do what you needed.

It's possible it happened before 8. FF tended him with no set decision about hiding. Placing him on a bed. Then some time during FF trip WT dies and FM then hides him in that interval time. That still means the photo is wrong but that they have more time to know he is dead. More than 2 hrs in fact. That is more consistent with human nature imo.

But why is FGM so fixated to lie about 8 am departure by FF? Very suspicious behaviour and that usually means its lies to hide the crime

 

[Lady O]

Let's look at the time that morning. Per 10 podcast with Lia Harris episode 1.

• FF and WT up first watching TV 6.30
• FM and FD follow shortly
• WT and FD fight over use of a toy
• WT and FD wake FGM up. No time mentioned on podcast but in police walk through it was after 8 FF had already left

Per episode 1 the first thing they did was had breakfast and then followed

• bike riding
• mummy monster WT with FM
• climb tree
• mummy monster all 3
• play on verandah with dice, drawing
• daddy tiger

We know FF was caught CCTV around 8.40. that means he left 8.35 approx. Post 38 I estimated times to complete each play activity and breakfast. Tally was 2' 30" and if it started just after FF had left (because FGM said he wasn't there ) then it means a finish time of 10.55. Yet we know that WT search had started around 10.20. Could I have mis estimated? Yeah sure. Just as likely if not more( given the obvious anomaly with FGM chemist remarks) is the prospect that FGM was up at same time as them and was there before FF left but lied to be excluded as accomplice from what they all witnessed.

Makes logical sense to me. Kurve now has some social media posts from family to say it was negligent accident.

I think unless there was a lot of stuff going on before, then the timeline of him last being seen between 9.45 and 10am. That would give time for the trip to Cobb & Co rd and a bit of a clean up, then the FM's search of the neighbours before FF came back at 10.35.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think unless there was a lot of stuff going on before, then the timeline of him last being seen between 9.45 and 10am. That would give time for the trip to Cobb & Co rd and a bit of a clean up, then the FM's search of the neighbours before FF came back at 10.35.

There is no doubt it's physically possible..It's only 3 min to Cobb & co. ...6 return.

But is it possible as a unilateral decision when a head knock usually won't die instantly? Even less when not concrete. Its swelling and bleed over time that kills. That retrospective study quoted 2% mortality rate

Perhaps the more likely accident is being struck by FF car as he reversed out. The weight of car creates fatality

But any accident must have a motive to hide and time to know he's dead. Pre existing injuries sure. Still it's a major decision to hide a body let alone one you can't be sure he's dead.

Is the FGM suggesting FF left before 8 not because he had a body to hide ( though did) but rather because his car struck WT? So a comment that he's already left excludes the possibility his car may have killed him in driveway? That then is consistent with Kurves post about family knowing it as negligent accident. It's more likely deadly than a fall on soft dirt too. Motive is pre existing injuries from Cinderella effect

What was it the FD said when asked where WT was?

"Off to look for FFs car?" or similar words ......literally

Mmmmmmmm

Hears car start. Dashes around cnr and runs along pathway to catch car and car hits him where garden pathway meets driveway coming from low lying unsighted level

Was he going to get paper perhaps? Early. Yes this makes perfect sense to all issues. Why wouldn't blood dogs detect? I presume they were used. Cadaver dogs wouldn't because there needs to be elapse of time

 

[31550]

I think unless there was a lot of stuff going on before, then the timeline of him last being seen between 9.45 and 10am. That would give time for the trip to Cobb & Co rd and a bit of a clean up, then the FM's search of the neighbours before FF came back at 10.35.

OR: An accident / incident occurs after 9:37 for which FM is responsible resulting in William's death. She panics and decides to hide him. She makes FGM a cup of tea and gets William's sister to keep drawing to keep them occupied. She pretends to look for William. She stuffs him in the boot of her mothers' car. Maybe she has time to drive him down to Batar Creek Rd near the riding school to stage a vehicular accident, or maybe she is interrupted by FF's text message saying "Home in 5". When FF returns home she distracts him by asking if he has William and directing him to search the backyard. Maybe she THEN makes the drive quickly while FF is searching the back yard. She then engages the neighbours in the 'search'. The scene is now ready for the 000 call. She makes the call, expecting that his body will be found and a 'hit-and-run' assumed. (Details in the 000 call about the mark on his head, which could only be seen by someone very close up - she is EXPECTING a body to be found, not a wandering 3YO to be spotted at a distance - otherwise she would have emphasised the Spiderman Suit!). Maybe a drunk or drug-affected driver does run William over, and then panics and hides the body more permanently? Or maybe some weirdo finds him. Somebody must have moved the body, or searchers would have found it soon afterwards. Maybe FM arranged for a third party to move him from her original hiding place? No fake photos required. No need to invent an alibi for FF. No need to invent stories for FGM or LT. Just a simple chain of events. Possible?

 

[DropBearess]

JS and SD are in court as we speak to answer stalking and intimidation charges, also JS's assault charge. Does anyone have any updates? No media coverage so far.

 

[stormbird]

I just did a search for news about the foster parents' case today (the resumption and last day of the assault/intimidation hearing) and found that the Sydney Morning Herald journalist Georgina Mitchell finished working at SMH last week:
https://nitter.net/gmitch_news/status/1730446867723637058



Her court reports related to William's case were always excellent, in my opinion. In case she'll ever be able to see this: thank you.

 

[stormbird]

Canberra Times / AAP, 04 Dec 2023

Tyrrell foster father argues 'lawful' force on child

"Magistrate Susan McIntyre will deliver her decision on March 22 [2024] at Downing Centre Local Court."

 

[maggiethecat]

Canberra Times / AAP, 04 Dec 2023

Tyrrell foster father argues 'lawful' force on child

"Magistrate Susan McIntyre will deliver her decision on March 22 [2024] at Downing Centre Local Court."

There should be no thing as “lawful force” when dealing with a foster child

 

[31550]

Canberra Times / AAP, 04 Dec 2023

Tyrrell foster father argues 'lawful' force on child

"Magistrate Susan McIntyre will deliver her decision on March 22 [2024] at Downing Centre Local Court."

FF looks like he's been in a good paddock.

 

[31550]

I think it’s possible FF could have left before 8 by car or by foot.

Looks like there’s a stack of off road tracks that FF was rumoured to be very familiar with.

But I’m not convinced the photo time has been tampered with and police have not picked that up by now.

If they had, I suppose it’s possible they haven’t told the public or media about it.

They are not obliged to tell the public or the media, but I think they would be duty-bound to inform the coroner and Craddock as the photographs were presented in evidence to the coronial inquest by Craddock, and he said (of 9:37), "That is a time of which we can all be certain". I'm sure Craddock would not want to have perjured himself.

 

[bomberclifford]

There is no way an average Joe could edit the data on a digital photo without leaving a trace that a forensics team would find.

Whatever happened that day, that time is either correct, or the police have withheld the information about it being wrong.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

There is no way an average Joe could edit the data on a digital photo without leaving a trace that a forensics team would find.

Whatever happened that day, that time is either correct, or the police have withheld the information about it being wrong.

I posted a link which said it could be done easily and that it would be undetectable. Now I'm not sure what forensic tests would be used and how what's done could elude them but the blanket remark was that if you control the images and camera that you could do what you like and without detection. If you want to post something which says otherwise then let's see it.

 

[bomberclifford]

I posted a link which said it could be done easily and that it would be undetectable. Now I'm not sure what forensic tests would be used and how what's done could elude them but the blanket remark was that if you control the images and camera that you could do what you like and without detection. If you want to post something which says otherwise then let's see it.

Let me see...

I've no intention looking something up again just to satisfy you. if you don't believe me I couldn't give a crap. I'm not your personal errand boy

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Let me see...

So you leap from thread to thread looking for trolling opportunities? Easier that way I guess, you don't have to think too much

 

[bomberclifford]

So you leap from thread to thread looking for trolling opportunities? Easier that way I guess, you don't have to think too much

I stand by my original statement.

Anyone with any idea about digital files and how they are created and what happens when you change them knows that that process leaves a signature. Altering those files without leaving a signature is not something your average joe would be capable of. Particularly when your tool is a 2013 model camera bought in Bali.

If they did attempt to dodge it, the cops would know, and since they heaven't mentioned it, then they are either holding that information back, or they are not disputing the time. I don't discount the former option as being possible, but at this stage, publicly at least, it's looking like they're sticking with the latter.

 

[LRitz]

There is no way an average Joe could edit the data on a digital photo without leaving a trace that a forensics team would find.

Whatever happened that day, that time is either correct, or the police have withheld the information about it being wrong.

Difficult to edit data.
But are we just looking at a memory stick in one camera. Maybe there is another way.

 

[CodyRose]

There is no way an average Joe could edit the data on a digital photo without leaving a trace that a forensics team would find.

Whatever happened that day, that time is either correct, or the police have withheld the information about it being wrong.

I have read that the foster parents were highly skilled in Information technology.