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D4 Division 4 - 2014

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Louis Cypher said:
The fact remains that they have still underperformed. Like I said, when you compare them to Rupertswood, or Werribee, then there is something wrong internally. If you can't see that then maybe you're part of the problem.

Good luck in 2014.
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From memory Werribee took more than 2 years to become successful & were the easy beats in the early 2000s. That was until their juniors came through the ranks & basically took the lowers grade in their stride. Still remember those beatings in the 2007 & 2008. The rest is history. I'd give Point Cook a little more time...

With Rupertswood they jumped from D4 to D1 without winning a granny, I guess thats a different kind of under performing
 
Fish 20 said:
From memory Werribee took more than 2 years to become successful & were the easy beats in the early 2000s. That was until their juniors came through the ranks & basically took the lowers grade in their stride. Still remember those beatings in the 2007 & 2008. The rest is history. I'd give Point Cook a little more time...

With Rupertswood they jumped from D4 to D1 without winning a granny, I guess thats a different kind of under performing
Click to expand...
Good comparison. Werribee were definitely easybeats and for much longer than two years - throughout that whole time though they had quality juniors coming through the ranks who either chose not to play for the senior club or played there without reaching their full potential. When the culture was corrected (still a long way from perfect though) they rose quickly through the grades. PC have comparable junior talent to Werribee so why are they still stuck in D4?
 

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Yeah I don't really do the name calling on the internet thing so I'll make this my last comment on the matter.

PC had a choice at the commencement of their senior club; they could start with a single senior team (in the clubbies) and fill it with products of the junior club, showing a clear pathway through and a carry on of a culture where the players actually believe in playing for the jumper. This would mean a slower start for the club and probably less chance of immediate success but long term would have a massive flow on for future years of potential success. Alternatively they could do what they actually did - go out and actively recruit 30+ YO local footballers from the WRFL (McGaw, May, Mayne, Marsh, Campagna, etc) in the hope of pinching a flag straight away. The result was that these blokes realised that D4 is still tough to get a kick in, regardless of the level that they had played in before. The club also missed a chance to carry on, and further enhance, a culture established within the juniors.

If you honestly think that the club made the right decisions in doing what they did then we have different opinions - mine is that PC missed a massive opportunity to get it right from the start.

As for jealousy, the day I start getting jealous about practice match results I think I'll start watching soccer.

As for my club, well we almost didn't have one only a couple of months back so to start from the bottom again I don't mind. Lessons have been learnt and the future is bright for us again going forward.

Edit: Removed quote of deleted post - OTP
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Louis Cypher said:
OTP, I'm pretty sure you've got more integrity than that. The point you're at now it may be best to pass on the baton.
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I already kicked the guy off for a day. If you hit the "report" button I'm more than happy to delete the post as well. On the other hand, if you leave it there anyone with more than two brain cells can see for themselves who the real goose is.

On reflection, you're right, I should have deleted it first up.

Keep it seemly, gentlemen.
 
Louis Cypher said:
Yeah I don't really do the name calling on the internet thing so I'll make this my last comment on the matter.

PC had a choice at the commencement of their senior club; they could start with a single senior team (in the clubbies) and fill it with products of the junior club, showing a clear pathway through and a carry on of a culture where the players actually believe in playing for the jumper. This would mean a slower start for the club and probably less chance of immediate success but long term would have a massive flow on for future years of potential success. Alternatively they could do what they actually did - go out and actively recruit 30+ YO local footballers from the WRFL (McGaw, May, Mayne, Marsh, Campagna, etc) in the hope of pinching a flag straight away. The result was that these blokes realised that D4 is still tough to get a kick in, regardless of the level that they had played in before. The club also missed a chance to carry on, and further enhance, a culture established within the juniors.

If you honestly think that the club made the right decisions in doing what they did then we have different opinions - mine is that PC missed a massive opportunity to get it right from the start.

As for jealousy, the day I start getting jealous about practice match results I think I'll start watching soccer.

As for my club, well we almost didn't have one only a couple of months back so to start from the bottom again I don't mind. Lessons have been learnt and the future is bright for us again going forward.

Edit: Removed quote of deleted post - OTP
Click to expand...


I admire your passion mate, but your suggestion of playing kids in the Clubbies is outright ridiculous. Clubbies is no place to play kids just out of juniors. Its no place to be generating a club culture.
Clubbies is for washed up hacks like me who want to relive their glory days - unless you are Xavs that is, then its about playing in a standard 1000 times lower than what you are capable of just to say you've won 15 flags in a row.
 

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justafan said:
I admire your passion mate, but your suggestion of playing kids in the Clubbies is outright ridiculous. Clubbies is no place to play kids just out of juniors. Its no place to be generating a club culture.
Clubbies is for washed up hacks like me who want to relive their glory days - unless you are Xavs that is, then its about playing in a standard 1000 times lower than what you are capable of just to say you've won 15 flags in a row.
Click to expand...

Do agree here. You won't build a club around clubbies. You build it around success or money. This comp "doesn't" do money, so success it is. People go where the flags are.
 
Louis Cypher said:
PC had a choice at the commencement of their senior club; they could start with a single senior team (in the clubbies) and fill it with products of the junior club, showing a clear pathway through and a carry on of a culture where the players actually believe in playing for the jumper.
Click to expand...
Ridiculous post.... Sounds like a club I once knew that thought it was a smart idea to play 2's and try and win a flag there instead of 1's and actually choose not to train so as not to be picked in the 1's or simply not turn up when picked in the 1's as an act of defiance...
Terrible logic!
 
What a childish rivalry.... I haven't seen North and West Brunswick carry on like this, nor Manningham or Box Hill.... Give it a rest and lets start talking actual footy.... Ladder/premiers for this year???

Hawthorn for me! With Chaddy to string a few wins together with a few In's from Eley Park. And haven't seen Canterbury so can't comment on them.
 
Robos said:
Most PC players are going to WRFL for a bit of coin.
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Excuse my complete ignorance as i am an A Grade man and admittedly have never seen a D4 game in my life, but can a D4 player expect to get coin if they play local footy? It either says a lot about how good the standard still is even 7 grades down from A, or tells us more about why many suburban clubs are dying under the weight of ridiculously out of control match payments.
 
Penski said:
Excuse my complete ignorance as i am an A Grade man and admittedly have never seen a D4 game in my life, but can a D4 player expect to get coin if they play local footy? It either says a lot about how good the standard still is even 7 grades down from A, or tells us more about why many suburban clubs are dying under the weight of ridiculously out of control match payments.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt anyone in Div 4 is getting paid. There are a few players at each club who could get coin if they wanted to leave their club but want to stay with their mates.
Plus most clubs down here couldn't afford to pay players even if they wanted to!
How do A grade clubs manage to keep all their gun players?

I think Hawthorn will win the flag from West Brunswick.
North Brunny and Point Cook should be good.
Westbourne Grammer and Canterbury are unknowns, a lot of clearances in after poor years last year.
Dragons underperformed last year so should improve.
The rest will have to improve a fair bit to challenge for the flag.
 
Fosters said:
I seriously doubt anyone in Div 4 is getting paid. There are a few players at each club who could get coin if they wanted to leave their club but want to stay with their mates.
Plus most clubs down here couldn't afford to pay players even if they wanted to!
How do A grade clubs manage to keep all their gun players?

I think Hawthorn will win the flag from West Brunswick.
North Brunny and Point Cook should be good.
Westbourne Grammer and Canterbury are unknowns, a lot of clearances in after poor years last year.
Dragons underperformed last year so should improve.
The rest will have to improve a fair bit to challenge for the flag.
Click to expand...


Fosters, I think you will find that A Grade clubs have the same problems as D4 clubs mate. All VAFA clubs, regardless of the grade, lose players to the money leagues. But just like your club, the majority of players play to play with their mates and alot of them turn down money offers each year - and from what I hear, just like a couple of your boys have done.
 
justafan said:
I admire your passion mate, but your suggestion of playing kids in the Clubbies is outright ridiculous. Clubbies is no place to play kids just out of juniors. Its no place to be generating a club culture.
Clubbies is for washed up hacks like me who want to relive their glory days - unless you are Xavs that is, then its about playing in a standard 1000 times lower than what you are capable of just to say you've won 15 flags in a row.
Click to expand...
Rupertswood started in the clubbies with a flag and went through the grades from there. Not every grade of clubbies has washed up hacks in it.
 
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