Do we need more talls again?...

[Portia]

Original Article

Key position tops Port shopping list
By ANDREW CAPEL
14nov02
PORT Adelaide is expected to address a need and zero in on a teenage key position player with its first pick at next week's AFL national draft.

The Power, which has an abundance of midfielders, is understood to be keen to improve its long-term key position strength and prepared to use its prized No. 8 selection – which could become No. 6 should Carlton be robbed of picks 1 and 2 because of salary cap breaches – on a player who might not make a contribution next season but will two, three or four years down the track.

Its need for another good tall has been heightened by the departure of Barnaby French (Carlton) and Barry Brooks (St Kilda) and the retirements of inaugural club champion Darren Mead and Bowen Lockwood.

Promising big men Adam Morgan and Toby Thurstans are yet to make an impact at AFL level, despite being at Alberton for four years, while premier key defenders Darryl Wakelin and Stephen Paxman are aged 28 and 31 respectively.

In attack, the Power could do with another key forward to provide long-term support for guns Warren Tredrea and Chad Cornes, despite the impressive raps on last year's draft pick-up Damon White, whose first season at Alberton was ruined by injury.

Heralded Port recruiting manager Alan Stewart would not be drawn into revealing who the Power was targeting but he was confident of securing quality players with the club's first two picks at No. 8 and 18 at the draft, on November 24.

Among the quality, young key position players the Power is believed to be considering are Victorian Steve Gilham, a 192cm defender who captained Vic Metro this year, 191cm Southern Districts forward Jarred Brennan, South Australians Jay Schulz, a 191cm forward from Woodville-West Torrens, and Daniel Bell, a 187cm utility-type from Glenelg who can play at either end of the ground, and 193cm NSW/ACT Rams defender Brent Staker.

While Stewart conceded there were only three "standouts" at the draft – Victorian midfielders Brendon Goddard and Steven Salopek and WA's Daniel Wells – he expressed surprise and disappointment at the negativity surrounding the quality of this year's draft crop.

"Too many people are comparing this year's draft with last year's, which was exceptional," Stewart said.

Stewart claims clubs will draft players to fill individual needs more than ever before, with several clubs having deficiencies in certain areas, whether it be in the ruck, midfield or in key position strength.

He believes up to nine South Australians will get drafted, including as many as four in the top 30.

While much of Port's planning is believed to have revolved around scouting key position players, it could be forced to change its philosophy should Carlton lose the first two picks.

Brilliant West Adelaide midfielder Byron Schammer, 17, has been earmarked by reigning premier Brisbane with the No. 5 pick. However if the Lions move up in the draft and gain the coveted No. 3 selection, they will almost certainly take Goddard, Wells or Salopek, perhaps making Schammer available to the Power.

 

[Portia]

I like the following passages best...

The Power, which has an abundance of midfielders, is understood to be keen to improve its long-term key position strength and prepared to use its prized No. 8 selection – which could become No. 6 should Carlton be robbed of picks 1 and 2 because of salary cap breaches – on a player who might not make a contribution next season but will two, three or four years down the track.

Promising big men Adam Morgan and Toby Thurstans are yet to make an impact at AFL level, despite being at Alberton for four years, while premier key defenders Darryl Wakelin and Stephen Paxman are aged 28 and 31 respectively.

Apparently the logic behind why we want to recruit a key position player that'll take two, three or four years to be any good isbecause we already have two players that will have taken more than four years to be any good!!!

Also, someone should tell Mr. Capel that 187cm does not suffice for a key position player.

 

[powergirlluv17]

Well let's just hope for our sake that Carlton do lose those top 2 picks coz it would be so fantastic if we were able to get Byron Schammer, but it looks like they want a tall, and in there mentioned about our defenders so there maybe looking for a tall forward/defender, Jay Schulz looks very promising in that regard does he? also works that he's a local guy

 

[Portia]

Jay Schulz is an odd one...he tore the competition apart at u16 level, but has dropped off in comparison to others at u18 level...whether its growing pains, or having enjoyed being an early developer previously, I'm not sure.

I'm pretty confident the article was trying to infer that Jared Brennan is our top priority, as he's the only one that -will- require some serious long term development.

Unlike Capel, I'd like to see us get a top midfielder with our first pick unless an available tall is deemed to be unmissable....our midfield depth could definitely do with an injection of high quality.

 

[mic59]

What we need to do is get players such as Toby Thurstans, Adam Morgan and Paul Kouliorotis in to play more games. No use getting another young player and giving them a game just to push those boys back in the pecking order. Of course if we get a ready-made AFL player like Nick Stevens we'd be silly not to go there, but that doesn't happen often. Especially as we got him at 25.
Two things, Koulioriotis has to get more league games. West Adelaide will just leave him to atrophy in the reserves for as long as they can and when he gets himself into the league they'll take any excuse to drop him to reserves. He needs to go to another club, one with more respect for the AFL. And when Adam Morgan and Toby Thurstans get a go they must not be left on the bench for most of the game and then stuck into the back pocket for 3 minutes. All that is doing is giving them time to make a mistake and destroy their confidence. Put them into the rotation with Bishop or even up forward to grab a few marks and to be able to run with the ball.
Who knows, this could even unearth either of those players as a key position forward or back.

 

[Portia]

I'd happily use a #6 or #8 to get a Nick Stevens, wouldn't you? They're out there. Whereas with only a few notable exceptions (Pavlich and er...hmm), early drafted key position players tend to not have much edge over their later drafted counterparts.

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by mic59

Two things, Koulioriotis has to get more league games. West Adelaide will just leave him to atrophy in the reserves for as long as they can and when he gets himself into the league they'll take any excuse to drop him to reserves. He needs to go to another club, one with more respect for the AFL.

What is the go about that.
Have heard Koulagirl talk about it, but that's about it.
Was his form bad or has he done something to the selection committee?

Originally posted by mic59

And when Adam Morgan and Toby Thurstans get a go they must not be left on the bench for most of the game and then stuck into the back pocket for 3 minutes. All that is doing is giving them time to make a mistake and destroy their confidence. Put them into the rotation with Bishop or even up forward to grab a few marks and to be able to run with the ball.

That is the area that Williams is a dud at. Strong words I know.
He decides what a player will do and play him according to that, not according to his strengths. (Opposite to Jack in some ways)

Plan B? Why must we have a plan B when plan A is the best there is. The only times it stuffs up is when the players muck it up.

His perseverance with Michael Stevens as a wingman, Derek Murray, and Lade as a key position forward when his form and confidence were not there, are two recent examples of sticking to the gameplan at all costs.

The opposite end of the scale are the gametime got by Alan Murray, Morgan and even Brogan.

There must also have been a time when both Guerra and Kane Cornes were reconsidering their future at Port.

He has the ability to be one of the best coaches given time, but ...
What he does he does very well, what he doesn't do he gives the impression that he doesn't care about it. If that makes sense.

 

[mic59]

Originally posted by PAfolwr

What is the go about that.
Have heard Koulagirl talk about it, but that's about it.
Was his form bad or has he done something to the selection committee?

No. that comment was made more on the basis that Koula has played well enough in West reserves to get himself promoted, and also out of my probably well-founded suspicion of any team supported by Ken Cunningham. There are certain teams in the SANFL that don't want to give the Power a fair go by playing their players in league and I am sure West is one of them.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by mic59


No. that comment was made more on the basis that Koula has played well enough in West reserves to get himself promoted, and also out of my probably well-founded suspicion of any team supported by Ken Cunningham. There are certain teams in the SANFL that don't want to give the Power a fair go by playing their players in league and I am sure West is one of them.

Such paranoia. SANFL clubs care about one thing: their own fortunes, whether that advantages or disadvantages the Power or the Crows is of little concern.

 

[mic59]

Originally posted by DaveW

Such paranoia. SANFL clubs care about one thing: their own fortunes, whether that advantages or disadvantages the Power or the Crows is of little concern.

Paranoia is irrational fear or suspicion. What is irrational here? Koula has played enough good games to be in the league, West need him there but he is still in the reserves. Otherwise Borchard is a complete and utter moron or there is another agenda here. Although I will admit that there is a strong possibility that Borchard could be a cmplete and utter moron.

 

[koulagirl32]

Well said by everyone!!!!!

Koula definitely deserved to make the seniors and stay there after a few games and if that had happened I'm sure it would have been a different season. I'm pretty sure from what I've heard that Ian Borchard didn't like him and couldn't be bothered giving him a go.

I'm pretty sure also that we will be seeing some changes tot he structure of the 22 and I'm very optimistic that Paul will make regular appearances this year. Me being biased and all, but I'm sure he'll get a chance, especially since he's out of contract at the end of the year and has to show something.

 

[dreamkillers]

Considering who wrote the article it doesn't mean too much......

I beleive we will pick the best player available at the time of our selection........be it a midfielder, key position player, forward, defender or even a ruckman (not that there are many about)


That said 2003 will be a make or break year for a number of players that have been on out list for a few years........

Cain Ackland - only 20 which probably helped and will have to improve to move up from 4th ruck.....

Domenic Cassisi/Paul Koulouriotis - as with Cain only 20 although both have strugled with injuries and form - probably fighting for the same spot with the player showing the most in 2003 more than likely retaining a spot but both will be expected to step up........

Stuart Cochrane - well it won't take much to show more than one M Stevens - will be interesting to see if he makes the grade......

Che ****atoo-Collins - probably lucky he was still contracted for next year...........can see him playing a few games for the Magpies in 2003 unless he can produce his best.......

Brent Guerra - Still only 20 and a player most of us like in the side but will have to show more in 2003 - our Mr fixit in 2003 who will be looking at cementing a regular spot........

Chris Hall - would have played this year except for being struck down with OP.............the club will be looking for Chris to be fighting for a spot in 2003 and is one player that could surprise.......

Brendon Lade - at 26 will be fighting with Broges for the No 2 ruck spot although with some confidence could also be a key forward in 2003 (which will be in competition to White).........after a disappointing 2002 the club will be expecting to see him return to earlier form.......

Adam Morgan/Toby Thurstans - 21/22 - both players have been groomed for key defensive rolls - with Mead gone and Paxman in probably his last season both have a chance to secure a spot in our defence..........more than likely the best player in the pre season will see themselves lining up for the real thing in 2003.......

Damon White - at 19 is being developed as a key forward.......will more than likely get a chance to show his wares in the pre season and with the right form could press for a spot during the year..........

Michael Wilson/Byron Pickett - not make or break but I'm sure we're all looking forward to seeing them out on the ground in 2003.......


Will be interesting to see which rabbits out of the hat Stewie's got in store for us next week...........

 

[Portia]

Brent Guerra needs to convince Mark that he's untradeable, or he'll be traded....a 20 year old 50 gamer like Brent is worth a bit on the market, and if Choco doesn't think he's unique/important enough to make a required player, he'll be gone, which would suck.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by mic59


Paranoia is irrational fear or suspicion. What is irrational here? Koula has played enough good games to be in the league, West need him there but he is still in the reserves. Otherwise Borchard is a complete and utter moron or there is another agenda here. Although I will admit that there is a strong possibility that Borchard could be a cmplete and utter moron.

The irrational part was the reasons you suggested for the Westies not playing him in the seniors.

 

[dreamkillers]

What will be more interesting is where Guerra will fit into the mix..........at the moment he would be fighting for a spot on the bench in my best side......although I rate him an important player I think he's probably had a couple of players jump ahead or catch him in the squad...........

With Pickett (25) and Wilson (26 next week) in the line up for next season it will make things a little tougher and I also see Hall coming into the mix with a good pre season...............maybe Mark has been seeing a similar future.........

Brent will have to make the most of all opportunities in 2003 and show good form early.............he is more than capable but 2003 will be his biggest challenge yet........


After the draft we can compare our best 18 and match sides for 2003........I can see a couple of regulars playing a bit in the SANFL next year unless they can turn things around............

 

[PAfolwr]

Going on last years side, the only players we "needed" that could walk into the side were a tough midfield type player or two, and we now have Wilson and Pickett, and a tall that can kick goals to take the pressure away from Cornes and Tredrea.
We have White that sounds promising, and if Lade can get some sort of confidence back he will be above average as well.
So we don't need to draft anyone specific, and thus go for the best available players.

Having said that, if there is a KPP and a midfield type player of equal type value available, then I would expect the KPP to be picked up, in particular a forward as insurance.

 

[mic59]

Originally posted by DaveW

The irrational part was the reasons you suggested for the Westies not playing him in the seniors.

Okay, smartarse. So maybe you can suggest why a player who is doing very well in the Westies reserves isn't getting a sniff in the seniors. And don't go that "best for the team" thing again. West have plenty of non-performers who don't deserve to be in their league side.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by mic59


Okay, smartarse. So maybe you can suggest why a player who is doing very well in the Westies reserves isn't getting a sniff in the seniors. And don't go that "best for the team" thing again. West have plenty of non-performers who don't deserve to be in their league side.

Because he wasn't good enough? Because he didn't fit the overall balance of the team? Suggesting it was just to spite the Power is pretty extreme.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
Going on last years side, the only players we "needed" that could walk into the side were a tough midfield type player or two, and we now have Wilson and Pickett, and a tall that can kick goals to take the pressure away from Cornes and Tredrea.
We have White that sounds promising, and if Lade can get some sort of confidence back he will be above average as well.
So we don't need to draft anyone specific, and thus go for the best available players.

In my opinion, we're one genuine ball-getting (as opposed to receiving) on-baller short in our top 22.

Wilson and Pickett can both run in stints in the midfield, but neither are proficient enough to play there for any length of time...they do lend toughness to the back and/or forward lines and with Pickett specifically around the periphery of the packs.

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Porthos
In my opinion, we're one genuine ball-getting (as opposed to receiving) on-baller short in our top 22.

Wilson and Pickett can both run in stints in the midfield, but neither are proficient enough to play there for any length of time...they do lend toughness to the back and/or forward lines and with Pickett specifically around the periphery of the packs.

Actually I agree with that statement. The player we need is a tougher version of Francou, but that would be icing on the cake.
Whereas in the forward line if one of our talls (Cornes or Tredrea) cops an injury, we are severely hampered. For not wanting to use the culinary term.

 

[portly]

Originally posted by Porthos
Brent Guerra needs to convince Mark that he's untradeable, or he'll be traded....a 20 year old 50 gamer like Brent is worth a bit on the market, and if Choco doesn't think he's unique/important enough to make a required player, he'll be gone, which would suck.

Brent is a Hardwick in the wings. He can even play forward. No way would I ever trade him at this age.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I was watching a replay of the Rd 22 Port v Brisbane game last night and it seriously had me thinking that we really don't have a big strong bodied key defender in the mix. Even Cornes looked to be fighting out of his weight division against Brown. Cornesy came out on top that time - and maybe not as convincingly as we thought at the time - but I wouldn't be hanging my hat on that result every time around. Paco did a good job on Lynch, but it's a war every time for the ageing warrior (both of them I guess). Meady's gone, to a lesser extent Bass, even French, all capable of taking on a strong bodied forward. Thurstans appears quite strong, is agile, good spoil, but is basically a stick, and Morgan doesn't seem to have the strength through his hips and thighs for a Lynch type one on one contest. That may be one of the reasons Port made such a big play for Pavlich, not only that he is a quality player, he's a quality player of the type we don't have at the moment.

Brennan is lightly built, so is Gilham, in fact most of the talls mentioned don't appear to have imposing stats height/weight wise except maybe for Nick Smith. In the end I guess this has confused me even more about a potential target for draft day. At this point my thinking is they'll go for the best available KPP - or maybe the one that best fits their needs at #6 and the best available midfielder at #16 (assuming Carlton get penalised at this draft). Then again, if Schammer is around at #6, that whole theory probably blows up.

And don't discount Capel too quickly, he has some sympathy for Port, unlike his colleague MR who runs with the wolves, and he is reputedly one of the few Adelaide journos who has a reasonable working relationship with Rob (The Hitman) Snowdon.

 

[Portia]

If a fairly strong-bodied defender is on our urgent list, Corey Ah Chee at #61 or #72 wouldn't be a bad way to go.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Corey seems to have a perceived weakness among recruiters, probably too slow. No one's taken a chance even on a rookie list. I'd be surprised if we picked him up now after he's been ignored for 2-3 years.

 

[Portia]

Well ****, I'm surprised we delisted Scott Bassett. I can't think of a reason for Port to not keep surprising me.