Coach Do you still have any faith in Bevo? [POLL]

[ScragCity]

Who would people want for our next coach, whenever it happens?

Someone who hasn't been a head coach before. Someone like Yze, Caracella, Gia etc.

We really need a fresh voice. After 9 years Bevo has gone stale. I can't stand listening to him anymore as a supporter, I can't imagine how the players feel.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Someone who hasn't been a head coach before. Someone like Yze, Caracella, Gia etc.

We really need a fresh voice. After 9 years Bevo has gone stale. I can't stand listening to him anymore as a supporter, I can't imagine how the players feel.

The players have a voice. They used it to get McCartney out the door.

If they can't stand listening to Beveridge anymore, then they could quite easily do the same to him.

As soon as Beveridge loses the players we'll hear rumblings about it in the media.

People within the playing group and the club will be only too happy to background any of the multitude of hacks who would love to break the story.

This will be especially so if Bigfoot'ys biggest Dictator Bevo trope has any actual connection to reality.

 

[_Mike_]

The players have a voice. They used it to get McCartney out the door.

And those players are all gone now

 

[Freshwater]

And those players are all gone now

I think when they heard Libba and Dahlhaus wanted out too then Gordo woke from his slumber on the issue and acted.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

And those players are all gone now

Do you think that they were the only players with the courage to ever affect change at the club?

If there were murmurings of discontent about the direction the club is headed amongst them then then it would be public soon after.

So far all we're hearing is the chirp of crickets.

Im back to being agnostic about Beveridges future and understand why some would be over his tenure. However, I also understand the Gordian knot that the club made for itself when it extended his tenure.

I'd like to see a discussion (this ones getting as repetitive as a morning shit) as to how the club could extricate itself from this problematic bind. If the chirping was to rise to a level where it would touch the ears of a journalist willing to run with it.

 

[Lex22]

The last 3 games could be our bad luck games for the year, the games where the ball always bounces wrong. We could be about to gon a run where the ball always bounces right, we dont kick straight to oppos in defense at all, our forwards finally start kicking straight, we stop utensil blocking each other in the air or our crumbers start collecting and scoring.

And dont forget, never forget, it’s only a freakin game. Dont lose your hair or beat your partner over it.

Underrated post, especially in regards to last Friday night. We were very unlucky vs a team who are airborne currently and seemingly got every break. It was definitely frustrating, but we shouldn’t be overreacting to that loss. Port can’t play any better and it’s June, whereas we’ve barely clicked barring the Adelaide game…even then we couldn’t kick straight.

I have a suspicion that a tricky draw with traveling and many games in wet/testing conditions had an effect vs Geelong in that 2nd half and we were only six days later vs Port.

Yes, winning at least one should’ve been the minimum, but we weren’t exactly disgraced and haven’t been since Round 2.

A good break going into North and then a bye gives us a great chance to refresh and go again for what’s a rather soft run home.

 

[Conception]

So Richmond making finals 13-15 and not winning any is steady progress and one bad year in 16
But our finals 19-22 are three crap seasons and a roller coaster?

There are more variables at play. In 2020 we beat only one top 8 team (an injury ravaged west coast by 2 points). In 2022 we only made the finals on the back of a freak Carlton choke.
And again, Richmond were starting from a bottom of the barrel rebuild stage. Not winning a final for three years would've been disappointing, but it's not nearly as disappointing as the Bulldogs when you account for the list outlook at the end of 2019, and the fact that a solid portion of this team had already won a Premiership in 2016.

Also a possibility that Bomber was an ice dealer/addict by then.

You say that Hardwick had his "odd-one-out down" years, but his best years (in his first 7 seasons) were the equivalent of Bevo's last few "down" years. With Cochtin, Martin, Rance and Reilwoldt and most of their 2017-2020 foot soldiers already on board, they didn't win a single final in his first 7 years. He didn't make finals more often than not in those first 7 years.

And maybe history will show that we are on a better upward trajectory than what Richmond was in 2016.

See above.

Bevo completely rebuilt a list between 2018 and 2020 (one of the youngest ever squads to make finals in 2019), to getting back to a Grand Final a year after that. We had a bad 2022, and a couple of poor games have us outside the top 4 this season.

BEVO rebuilt the list? Why are you giving him credit for the good work of our list management? It wasn't a "complete" rebuild either, more like a refresh. The extent of Beveridge's input with list management decisions is probably whoever we brought in from Footscray, players like McComb and Gardner.
And you're including 2020 in that "rebuild"? Talk about digging your heels. That was probably the most disappointing year of all. At least try to make the virus excuse.

Yes, getting rid of a proven premiership coach in hope of a magic beans upgrade is high risk.

You're still not actually explaining yourself here at all. What risk? What is the Western Bulldogs Football Club putting at stake that entails great risk? Do you not understand the concept of risk?

If sacking Beveridge is "high risk", then you really have to question what the club was thinking when they sacked proven two-time premiership coach Alan Joyce. Sure, things might've been bad at the time, but... he's a two time premiership coach! It was extremely high-risk to let him go!

And maybe history will show that we are on a better upward trajectory than what Richmond was in 2016.

How many more crap years will it be before that upwards trajectory is realized? Only been about 5 or 6.

 

[Conception]

So Richmond making finals 13-15 and not winning any is steady progress and one bad year in 16
But our finals 19-22 are three crap seasons and a roller coaster?

Also I was only deconstructing the examples that poster provided.

That poster is saying we should stick with Beveridge because those examples "proved" that patience with a coach can pay off. But for every Hardwick/Bomber Thompson, there are another 15-20 dud coaches.
Should North Melbourne have given Brad Scott more time? Should St Kilda have given Alan Richardson more time?
What about West Coast with Worsfold? Like Beveridge he delivered a Premiership, and following a bottoming out period between 08-10, he actually finished top 4 in 2011 and 5th in 2012. West Coast still parted ways with him at the end of 2013. Was that meant to be some kind of high-risk endeavor?

What about Kevin Sheedy? Never mind one flag, try four. What were Essendon thinking telling him to pack his bags? Some might say his ideas and philosophies are not compatible with the modern game... sounds familiar.

This is Beveridge's 9th year as coach, and 7th without a flag. Generally when teams go 7+ years without a flag or even a top 4 finish, the scrutiny rightly starts to build, and coaches tend to get sacked. Does breaking the drought in 2016 entitle him to unlimited credit or something? Should we just be forever happy with that alone and pay no mind to the fact that Bontempelli and Macrae's best years have been largely wasted?

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Also I was only deconstructing the examples that poster provided.

That poster is saying we should stick with Beveridge because those examples "proved" that patience with a coach can pay off. But for every Hardwick/Bomber Thompson, there are another 15-20 dud coaches.
Should North Melbourne have given Brad Scott more time? Should St Kilda have given Alan Richardson more time?
What about West Coast with Worsfold? Like Beveridge he delivered a Premiership, and following a bottoming out period between 08-10, he actually finished top 4 in 2011 and 5th in 2012. West Coast still parted ways with him at the end of 2013. Was that meant to be some kind of high-risk endeavor?

What about Kevin Sheedy? Never mind one flag, try four. What were Essendon thinking telling him to pack his bags? Some might say his ideas and philosophies are not compatible with the modern game... sounds familiar.

This is Beveridge's 9th year as coach, and 7th without a flag. Generally when teams go 7+ years without a flag or even a top 4 finish, the scrutiny rightly starts to build, and coaches tend to get sacked. Does breaking the drought in 2016 entitle him to unlimited credit or something? Should we just be forever happy with that alone and pay no mind to the fact that Bontempelli and Macrae's best years have been largely wasted?

Making 2 GFs in 9 years entitles him to be respected as a pretty decent coach in the modern game. Just below the elites of Clarkson, Hardwick and co.

If Bevo is only a B grade coach and you want better the low risk replacements are few and far between.

Taking a punt on a new coach right now seems to be a high risk, low/moderate reward type bet. I’m not at all convinced we’d be in top 2-3 teams in the comp with an A grade coach. Maybe we’d be 4th-6th instead of 8th right now. Or maybe we’d be 13th with one of the 12 worse coaches in the league…

 

[Guido]

See above.


BEVO rebuilt the list? Why are you giving him credit for the good work of our list management? It wasn't a "complete" rebuild either, more like a refresh.

Yes, to say he singlehandedly rebuilt the list is incorrect, but that he navigated a full blown rebuild while making finals twice is accurate. The average age of our top 22 during that time was borderline as young as the Gold Coast/GWS teams in the early 2010s. Yes, we had Bont, Macrae etc, but GC had Ablett, May and Lynch - having a few AA level players doesn't automatically inoculate a crazy young list from getting hammered/incurring dozens of 10 goal+ losses, yet other than 2018, Bevo had that squad ultra competitive.

Look at the average age we went into the 2019 finals with - it's unheard of.

And you're including 2020 in that "rebuild"? Talk about digging your heels. That was probably the most disappointing year of all.

Yeah, I include 2020 - the average age/experience of the team didn't magically go up 2/3 years and add 50 games per player in an offseason compared to the 2019 final's side. Between 2017 and 2020 we lost close to 1500 games of experience and would've turned over almost 70% of our list and 60% of our top 22. Compare that to the experience and stability that the Grand Final sides (Richmond/Geelong) would have had across that time frame.

Western Bulldogs Playing List for 2020 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Look at the quality and age of the list in 2020 compared to the grand finalists, being mindful that players peak at 24-28.

What did you expect of this list, with barely 7-8 players in their peak, Top 4?

You're still not actually explaining yourself here at all. What risk? What is the Western Bulldogs Football Club putting at stake that entails great risk? Do you not understand the concept of risk?

If sacking Beveridge is "high risk", then you really have to question what the club was thinking when they sacked proven two-time premiership coach Alan Joyce. Sure, things might've been bad at the time, but... he's a two time premiership coach! It was extremely high-risk to let him go!

If Beveridge gets Joyce's results, he goes the same way.

I'm not a "never sack Bevo" person.

I just don't think the last five/two years are grounds to sack him.

I've sat through 5 losing prelims since 92, getting to the point where I thought I'd never see us in a Granny. Yes, I think the guy who denied 60 years of history and has won a couple of prelims should get a chance to win in a third (and maybe fourth) across the next couple of seasons.

The assistants situation is a joke. He's stubborn af. The Dalrymple debacle was borderline unforgivable. He needs some self-reflection on some points, but a lot of these are governance issues in allowing too much power in his hands. And if he loses the players, he obviously needs to go. But beside all of that - you clearly disagree with this - i think a) he's one of the top half dozen coaches in the league, easily, and b) history shows that many coaches can still achieve a lot of ultimate success after 8 years with the same club. If those are acceptable viewpoints for me to have, then I compare it to the alternative - just purely on raw percentages, the chances we get an equal or better coach (top 6 in the comp) is 33%. The chances we get a premiership coach is - based on AFL history - about 1 in 6 or 1 in 7? Historically, the odds the Bulldogs find a premiership coach, sit at about 1 in 17?

Teague, Rohde, McCartney, Primus, Dew, Waters, Noble, Ratten or Rhyce Shaw.

Yes, there's a f*ing risk that sacking him backfires massively.

How many more crap years will it be before that upwards trajectory is realized? Only been about 5 or 6.

At the moment it's hard to see us turn it around quickly and have some very successful seasons, but NO-ONE would have possibly picked Hardwick to turn it around as he did after 2016. If you were a Richmond supporter at the time, you undoubtedly would have been one of the people calling for his head, just as thousands of their supporters on their social media/online forums were.

 

[Conception]

Making 2 GFs in 9 years entitles him to be respected as a pretty decent coach in the modern game. Just below the elites of Clarkson, Hardwick and co.

If Bevo is only a B grade coach and you want better the low risk replacements are few and far between.

Taking a punt on a new coach right now seems to be a high risk, low/moderate reward type bet. I’m not at all convinced we’d be in top 2-3 teams in the comp with an A grade coach. Maybe we’d be 4th-6th instead of 8th right now. Or maybe we’d be 13th with one of the 12 worse coaches in the league…

I see it a different way: making two Grand Finals in 9 years might generally be considered a good result, but the context with Beveridge is still wildly different compared to coaches with similar records. Chris Scott and John Longmire engineered teams with a strong level of consistency, and made top 4 several times. Beveridge has never made top 4, and we have always had issues with consistency with him: from years to weeks to quarters to 10 minute patches.

With 9 years as head coach and these issues being omnipresent, I am convinced we will never find consistency and I am convinced Beveridge will never change his ways, therefore I think it makes sense to explore a different coach. As for "taking a punt" and "high risk", I will address that below.

Yes, to say he singlehandedly rebuilt the list is incorrect, but that he navigated a full blown rebuild while making finals twice is accurate. The average age of our top 22 during that time was borderline as young as the Gold Coast/GWS teams in the early 2010s. Yes, we had Bont, Macrae etc, but GC had Ablett, May and Lynch - having a few AA level players doesn't automatically inoculate a crazy young list from getting hammered/incurring dozens of 10 goal+ losses, yet other than 2018, Bevo had that squad ultra competitive.

Look at the average age we went into the 2019 finals with - it's unheard of.

View attachment 1712243


Yeah, I include 2020 - the average age/experience of the team didn't magically go up 2/3 years and add 50 games per player in an offseason compared to the 2019 final's side. Between 2017 and 2020 we lost close to 1500 games of experience and would've turned over almost 70% of our list and 60% of our top 22. Compare that to the experience and stability that the Grand Final sides (Richmond/Geelong) would have had across that time frame.

Western Bulldogs Playing List for 2020 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Look at the quality and age of the list in 2020 compared to the grand finalists, being mindful that players peak at 24-28.

What did you expect of this list, with barely 7-8 players in their peak, Top 4?



If Beveridge gets Joyce's results, he goes the same way.

I'm not a "never sack Bevo" person.

I just don't think the last five/two years are grounds to sack him.

I've sat through 5 losing prelims since 92, getting to the point where I thought I'd never see us in a Granny. Yes, I think the guy who denied 60 years of history and has won a couple of prelims should get a chance to win in a third (and maybe fourth) across the next couple of seasons.

The assistants situation is a joke. He's stubborn af. The Dalrymple debacle was borderline unforgivable. He needs some self-reflection on some points, but a lot of these are governance issues in allowing too much power in his hands. And if he loses the players, he obviously needs to go. But beside all of that - you clearly disagree with this - i think a) he's one of the top half dozen coaches in the league, easily, and b) history shows that many coaches can still achieve a lot of ultimate success after 8 years with the same club.


At the moment it's hard to see us turn it around quickly and have some very successful seasons, but NO-ONE would have possibly picked Hardwick to turn it around as he did after 2016. If you were a Richmond supporter at the time, you undoubtedly would have been one of the people calling for his head, just as thousands of their supporters on their social media/online forums were.

Most of this post may as well be a case of agreeing to disagree. You can go through all the stats and records and average ages and whatever else, but at the end of the day, I still think we underachieved massively in 2020 relative to how we finished in 2019. I also think three bad years our of the last four is disgraceful.
As for comparing him with other coaches: certain coaches with certain styles and philosophies fit certain clubs at certain times. At the end of 2014, Beveridge was just the elixir the team needed, and brought some much needed fresh ideas to address the stagnation under McCartney. In 2023 however, he is spoiled milk, a few years past his expiry date.

If those are acceptable viewpoints for me to have, then I compare it to the alternative - just purely on raw percentages, the chances we get an equal or better coach (top 6 in the comp) is 33%. The chances we get a premiership coach is - based on AFL history - about 1 in 6 or 1 in 7? Historically, the odds the Bulldogs find a premiership coach, sit at about 1 in 17?

Teague, Rohde, McCartney, Primus, Dew, Waters, Noble, Ratten or Rhyce Shaw.

Yes, there's a f*ing risk that sacking him backfires massively.

I'm still not seeing the whole "f*ing risk" thing. A low-percentage coaching call doesn't necessarily entail a significant risk. What exactly is the club staking? Time?

Port Power sacked Choco who was clearly struggling and had to go, and hired Primus in his place. Then under Primus, they remained crap for two years.
Did that mean sacking Choco a risk? To me, it just looks like the status quo was maintained; they went from being bad to being bad. Ultimately they sacked Primus after a couple of years before picking up a decent coach in Hinkley, who turned things around quickly.
Same thing applies to Beveridge. Let's say we sack him, and his replacement didn't do that well the following two years- what's the big deal? We'd go from playing bad football under a stubborn hippie to playing presumably bad football and maybe a different set of problems under a new coach. At least we tried something different.

Is giving two years to a fresh coach meant to be some death-defying stake? After 7 years of terminal inconsistency including some terrible football at the present, there's a reason supporters like myself are developing an increasingly strong appetite for change. The appetite gets even stronger upon the realization that both Jackson Macrae and Marcus Bontempelli are turning 29 and 28 this year, who could (arguably) be our two greatest midfielders of all time.

 

[wayniac]

I see it a different way: making two Grand Finals in 9 years might generally be considered a good result, but the context with Beveridge is still wildly different compared to coaches with similar records. Chris Scott and John Longmire engineered teams with a strong level of consistency, and made top 4 several times. Beveridge has never made top 4, and we have always had issues with consistency with him: from years to weeks to quarters to 10 minute patches.

With 9 years as head coach and these issues being omnipresent, I am convinced we will never find consistency and I am convinced Beveridge will never change his ways, therefore I think it makes sense to explore a different coach. As for "taking a punt" and "high risk", I will address that below.


Most of this post may as well be a case of agreeing to disagree. You can go through all the stats and records and average ages and whatever else, but at the end of the day, I still think we underachieved massively in 2020 relative to how we finished in 2019. I also think three bad years our of the last four is disgraceful.
As for comparing him with other coaches: certain coaches with certain styles and philosophies fit certain clubs at certain times. At the end of 2014, Beveridge was just the elixir the team needed, and brought some much needed fresh ideas to address the stagnation under McCartney. In 2023 however, he is spoiled milk, a few years past his expiry date.


I'm still not seeing the whole "f*ing risk" thing. A low-percentage coaching call doesn't necessarily entail a significant risk. What exactly is the club staking? Time?

Port Power sacked Choco who was clearly struggling and had to go, and hired Primus in his place. Then under Primus, they remained crap for two years.
Did that mean sacking Choco a risk? To me, it just looks like the status quo was maintained; they went from being bad to being bad. Ultimately they sacked Primus after a couple of years before picking up a decent coach in Hinkley, who turned things around quickly.
Same thing applies to Beveridge. Let's say we sack him, and his replacement didn't do that well the following two years- what's the big deal? We'd go from playing bad football under a stubborn hippie to playing presumably bad football and maybe a different set of problems under a new coach. At least we tried something different.

Is giving two years to a fresh coach meant to be some death-defying stake? After 7 years of terminal inconsistency including some terrible football at the present, there's a reason supporters like myself are developing an increasingly strong appetite for change. The appetite gets even stronger upon the realization that both Jackson Macrae and Marcus Bontempelli are turning 29 and 28 this year, who could (arguably) be our two greatest midfielders of all time.

Not sure that Hinckley turned things around quickly. He hasn't delivered a flag or a grand final. Port are flat track bullies with a pathetic finals record.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I love how the Bevo Out Extremists want to completely disregard the major details of list age and make up of the team across several years but then desperately try to convince others that consistency across games and minutes of games is super important to rating a coaches performances.

Let’s sack Bevo now, bring in a Voss type for two years, then we can hopefully secure a Hinkley type that can take us to the promise land of a Top 4 finish. The pinnacle of our great game. A statue out the front of Whitten Oval will surely follow.

 

[yebach]

I love how the Bevo Out Extremists want to completely disregard the major details of list age and make up of the team across several years but then desperately try to convince others that consistency across games and minutes of games is super important to rating a coaches performances.

Let’s sack Bevo now, bring in a Voss type for two years, then we can hopefully secure a Hinkley type that can take us to the promise land of a Top 4 finish. The pinnacle of our great game. A statue out the front of Whitten Oval will surely follow.

Or let's keep him? And what do you see changing for the better?

 

[Conception]

Not sure that Hinckley turned things around quickly. He hasn't delivered a flag or a grand final. Port are flat track bullies with a pathetic finals record.

Hinkley took over a bottom of the toilet Primus Port Power, immediately got them into the finals, won a final, then got them into the prelim the next year where they only barely lost to the eventual premiers Hawthorn. If that isn't turning things around quickly, what would you call it?

I wouldn't be calling other clubs flat track bullies with the way we're going right now. Which teams have we beaten again?

 

[hutchy31]

This is somewhat enlightening for someone (myself) who bemoans our inconsistency. I know we know all of this, but sometimes in pictorial form it's just more obvious. Particularly compared with other teams we're actually pretty consistent - on average the 7th best team in the comp under Bevo. That's not to be sniffed at, particularly with a flag and a GF appearance to go alongside it.

My guess is if we broke down the results over that time we'd also be fairly consistent in terms of losing to better teams and winning against lower teams (again, something you'd probably expect from a team that's consistently in the bottom half of the eight).

The question is whether or not you think we should be better than that. Should we be contending for top four, and have at least 2-3 appearances in that bracket across the past 8 years? Again, I don't have the stats but it's not like I can recall horrific runs with injury like some clubs get across this period, save for a couple of small clusters and the odd Libba ACL.

I'm still in the camp that a new coach would provide a fresh perspective as well as some more consistency in team selection - which I think is a major issue. However, the discussion over Richmond is a good one, because I think that Bevo could potentially recapture the magic he had if put within a stronger footy department and coaching structure where gameplan and team selection were subject to more rigorous examination by good football minds.

However, I do also agree with some of the posters above that we have two fairly entrenched camps now and we're regurgitating the same arguments. For my part I'll try to refrain from doing so much more in this thread at least (with the caveat that once I'm alcoholically impaired I will likely continue to melt in GD threads and autopsy threads.....)

 

[The Inbetweener]

This is somewhat enlightening for someone (myself) who bemoans our inconsistency. I know we know all of this, but sometimes in pictorial form it's just more obvious. Particularly compared with other teams we're actually pretty consistent - on average the 7th best team in the comp under Bevo. That's not to be sniffed at, particularly with a flag and a GF appearance to go alongside it.

My guess is if we broke down the results over that time we'd also be fairly consistent in terms of losing to better teams and winning against lower teams (again, something you'd probably expect from a team that's consistently in the bottom half of the eight).

The question is whether or not you think we should be better than that. Should we be contending for top four, and have at least 2-3 appearances in that bracket across the past 8 years? Again, I don't have the stats but it's not like I can recall horrific runs with injury like some clubs get across this period, save for a couple of small clusters and the odd Libba ACL.

I'm still in the camp that a new coach would provide a fresh perspective as well as some more consistency in team selection - which I think is a major issue. However, the discussion over Richmond is a good one, because I think that Bevo could potentially recapture the magic he had if put within a stronger footy department and coaching structure where gameplan and team selection were subject to more rigorous examination by good football minds.

However, I do also agree with some of the posters above that we have two fairly entrenched camps now and we're regurgitating the same arguments. For my part I'll try to refrain from doing so much more in this thread at least (with the caveat that once I'm alcoholically impaired I will likely continue to melt in GD threads and autopsy threads.....)

I think that sums it up pretty well. Some supporters will be pleased to constantly be in the finals mix, and having jagged a flag and a GF in that time makes it even better.

Others, like myself, will be frustrated to have never been top 4 under Bevo and have a genuine tilt at a flag without needing to go against the odds.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Or let's keep him? And what do you see changing for the better?

Yes and Yes.

Were you around in 2019/20? The same discussions then, we are having now.
Some unhappy with selection, up and down form, inconsistency against better teams. Some pushed hard for Bevo to be sacked. 12-18mths later we made the GF and almost won a 2nd Bevo flag.

How can any supporters claim that things can’t get better due certain reasons, when they were proven wrong only a few years ago.

I have no issue with Bevo being moved on, but it has to be for the right reasons. For me that would be losing the group, which looked like the case after Rd2, turns out that hasn’t happened. I certainly wouldn’t be moving him on right now.

 

[Freshwater]

Yes and Yes.

Were you around in 2019/20? The same discussions then, we are having now.
Some unhappy with selection, up and down form, inconsistency against better teams. Some pushed hard for Bevo to be sacked. 12-18mths later we made the GF and almost won a 2nd Bevo flag.

How can any supporters claim that things can’t get better due certain reasons, when they were proven wrong only a few years ago.

I have no issue with Bevo being moved on, but it has to be for the right reasons. For me that would be losing the group, which looked like the case after Rd2, turns out that hasn’t happened. I certainly wouldn’t be moving him on right now.

‘Losing the group’ is only one reason, and the very last reason why you replace a coach. If you’ve lost the group that is a disaster for a club. But your players could still love/like you, but you are coaching poorly, or not even poorly but in way that will never win a flag. And if you have been there a while, this is the main time to replace a coach, not wait until you ‘lose the players’ because you will lose many along the way before the tipping point of the majority of the group.

 

[doggies ftw]

The amount of times I’ve seen the words “almost” won a 2nd flag, you’ve gotta be kidding me. We didn’t almost win shit, we got humiliated to a club breaking level which we still haven’t recovered from 18 months later. There’s no almost about it

 

[Charlie Bucket]

‘Losing the group’ is only one reason, and the very last reason why you replace a coach. If you’ve lost the group that is a disaster for a club. But your players could still love/like you, but you are coaching poorly, or not even poorly but in way that will never win a flag. And if you have been there a while, this is the main time to replace a coach, not wait until you ‘lose the players’ because you will lose many along the way before the tipping point of the majority of the group.

Losing the Group refers to players not responding to the coaching and the messaging being put forward, regardless of their attitude to the coach on a personal level.

The players could despise Bevo for all I care, but as long as they play to a certain level and execute according to what’s being taught/discussed, I have no issue with it.

Some Saints players were not overly keen on Ross during their years of making GF’s because he was a bit of a c**t. Had no bearing on their performances because the players responded well to him as a coach. Eventually he lost them and they didn’t respond to his coaching at all. This was replicated when he went to Freo.

Having the players like you, and having them play for you are two seperate things.

 

[TiAn_]

The amount of times I’ve seen the words “almost” won a 2nd flag, you’ve gotta be kidding me. We didn’t almost win s**t, we got humiliated to a club breaking level which we still haven’t recovered from 18 months later. There’s no almost about it

2021 is such polarising year. It’s a Rorschach test for opinion on Bev. We played really good footy for three months, then some decent footy, then choked away top 4 after being top of the ladder, in a fashion eerily similar to late 2017 and some other sudden losses of form. Only to recover and remarkably win three straight interstate finals. But then concluded that run with a 13 goal loss.

It would be an interesting hypothetical to see what the pro-Bev arguments for his post-2016 performance would look like if we hadn’t beaten Brisbane by 1 point in the SF. It seems a great deal of the argument for his performance over the last 7 years boils down to that SF win and the PF win the following week. Which were fantastic wins, particularly on the road without Bruce. Again, it’s a Rorschach test.

This year isn’t done though and hopefully the last three weeks are this year’s form slump and we pull it together moving forward.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

The amount of times I’ve seen the words “almost” won a 2nd flag, you’ve gotta be kidding me. We didn’t almost win s**t, we got humiliated to a club breaking level which we still haven’t recovered from 18 months later. There’s no almost about it

Take a Bex Doggo. No need to get so worked up over us almost winning a GF.

 

[geoffjennings79]

So if you express an opinion to sack the coach (not something I'm explicitly advocating, but voting options are limited, I'd plump for upgrading assistants as a priority tbh) you're labelled an "extremist", but if you take the diametrically opposite view of blindly absolving the coach of recent performances, no extremism is involved? Rightio.

 

[yebach]

So if you express an opinion to sack the coach (not something I'm explicitly advocating, but voting options are limited, I'd plump for upgrading assistants as a priority tbh) you're labelled an "extremist", but if you take the diametrically opposite view of blindly absolving the coach of recent performances, no extremism is involved? Rightio.

Not to mention. We're also a bunch of clowns.