Coach Do you still have any faith in Bevo? [POLL]

[Charlie Bucket]

Not to mention. We're also a bunch of clowns.

Don’t be so hard on yourself Yebach

 

[yebach]

Whatever happens. I think it's a good thing for any coach or any head of an organisation to be called out when confusing decisions are made. And when inconsistency becomes the norm.
Would I sack Bevo right now? No. I'd wait till the end of the season.
If we're not sacking Bevo. Would I be happy with a whole bunch of new senior assistant's? As long as they're not ' yes men ' like Maple was. I would consider that a step in the right direction.
I would think most people on here would be disappointed if the 2024 season rolls around and we have essentially the same coaching set up.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Longmire and C Scott were cited as examples of coaches similar to Bevo in terms of long tenures with isolated flags.
Teams coached by those 2 at least have a brand - both are well-drilled teams with solid defences. Funnily enough both have been happy to tag to a degree too - Blicavs vs Bont only 2 games ago.

What is the brand of a Beveridge-coached team? It was handball and desperation in 2016. Cats and Swans have changed personnel in the same way we have in recent years, but they still have an underlying philosophy that their coaches seemed to have tweaked rather than attemptong wholesale re-invention. Swans are starting to drop off, but for all the writing off on this board that has been espoused against Geelong (I'm as guilty as anyone bit more through wishing it to be so than believing it), Scott has rejuvenated his list, handed midfield keys to some younger options, topped up with older recruits (yes, I know the Geelong lifestyle comes into it), and they will likely give themselves the best chance at another GF/flag by finishing top 4 (again).

Yes Beveridge has been challenged by a young list in recent years. But we had a mostly young team in 2016! Our defence has struggled - a defence the coach (who has a major say in list composition) that he - working with Power - has had 7 years to address. I know we've had a ping at players from other clubs who've either stayed or been snapped up by other clubs - "we're not a destination club". Melbourne weren't either when May and Lever landed there. Saints have recruited some spuds, but also some decent players from other clubs - while mostly being a basket case during Bevo's (and Power's) tenure.

It's harsh to only blame Beveridge for the list composition, but it's also disingenuous to absolve him of blame for the list composition.

Also, if part if the reason (alleged by some on here) that we now struggle to get decent assistants is because of Bevo's salary, how do we resolve that? I doubt he'd be keen to take a cut, so how do we manage the soft cap to attract someone of the ilk of a former senior coach? And would Bevo even accept being challenged in that way?

Anyway, apologies for a bit of a ramble, I'm not sold on either sacking or retaining him now, as there are ramifications in both scenarios for the club. Also if he is moved on, where does that leave players who have had a close relationship with him? Most of them you'd expect would be professional and pragmatic and adjust accordingly, but even 1 or 2 following him elsewhere could have the potential to destabilise.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Whatever happens. I think it's a good thing for any coach or any head of an organisation to be called out when confusing decisions are made. And when inconsistency becomes the norm.
Would I sack Bevo right now? No. I'd wait till the end of the season.
If we're not sacking Bevo. Would I be happy with a whole bunch of new senior assistant's? As long as they're not ' yes men ' like Maple was. I would consider that a step in the right direction.
I would think most people on here would be disappointed if the 2024 season rolls around and we have essentially the same coaching set up.

Didn't we address the assistant coaches being the sole source of everything that piles us meme last year when we brought Brendan Lade into the club?

 

[yebach]

Didn't we address the assistant coaches being the sole source of everything that piles us meme last year when we brought Brendan Lade into the club?

I don't think replacing Maple with Lade is enough.

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Longmire and C Scott were cited as examples of coaches similar to Bevo in terms of long tenures with isolated flags.
Teams coached by those 2 at least have a brand - both are well-drilled teams with solid defences. Funnily enough both have been happy to tag to a degree too - Blicavs vs Bont only 2 games ago.

What is the brand of a Beveridge-coached team? It was handball and desperation in 2016. Cats and Swans have changed personnel in the same way we have in recent years, but they still have an underlying philosophy that their coaches seemed to have tweaked rather than attemptong wholesale re-invention. Swans are starting to drop off, but for all the writing off on this board that has been espoused against Geelong (I'm as guilty as anyone bit more through wishing it to be so than believing it), Scott has rejuvenated his list, handed midfield keys to some younger options, topped up with older recruits (yes, I know the Geelong lifestyle comes into it), and they will likely give themselves the best chance at another GF/flag by finishing top 4 (again).

I'd actually argue that it wasn't until Scott made a complete philosophy and style change - from slow kick/mark to get it forward as quickly as possible - that they saw proper success. I can't remember where I saw it but Scott was actually considering retirement. The change was a 'what do I have to lose' idea that they thought could work with Hawkins/Cameron/Stengle. Sydney were similar; they were a slow, conservative team but they talk about how Pyke changed their ball movement philosophy and they made the GF.

If anything I think that's the problem. The high press, happy handball, run in waves - all suited the list in 2016. I don't think Bevo has the flexibility to tailor the gameplan for the list, or the hummility to let an assistant revamp our style.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I'd actually argue that it wasn't until Scott made a complete philosophy and style change - from slow kick/mark to get it forward as quickly as possible - that they saw proper success. I can't remember where I saw it but Scott was actually considering retirement. The change was a 'what do I have to lose' idea that they thought could work with Hawkins/Cameron/Stengle. Sydney were similar; they were a slow, conservative team but they talk about how Pyke changed their ball movement philosophy and they made the GF.

I'd argue that nothing much changed at Geelong until Jeremy Cameron and then Tyson Stengel arrived at the club in 2021 and 2022 respectively. Until then they'd spent 10 years of playing consistent but not really competitive finals series built on the back of a home ground advantage where they played mostly non-competitive sides.

If anything I think that's the problem. The high press, happy handball, run in waves - all suited the list in 2016. I don't think Bevo has the flexibility to tailor the gameplan for the list, or the hummility to let an assistant revamp our style.

The hand ball, run in waves high press seems to be the cornerstone of how Collingwood play right now. They also seem to play pretty wide defensively. It's just that they have the advantage of having the games premier attaching CHB at their disposal.

We on the other hand have a revolving door of middle of the road journeymen trying to fill the role.

I dont think it's a coincidence that we have lost all of the games that we've played since the injuries to JJ and Richards. Both of whom were instrumental in getting our season back on track. Both of whom were arguably in AA from at the time of their injury. We're a side not really blessed with a lot of pace through the middle or the ground their lose has crippled us transitioning the ball out of defence. All of the weight has been transferred onto the shoulders of Dale and his disposal has suffered accordingly.

For all of the stick that Beveridge and Co get for his supposed hubris, the reality is that we just dont have the quality across the list to cover when we get injuries to key players. Just look at the weekends side. It's a big ask to win with the likes of A. Jones. Baker. JO'D. West, and Bruce playing a KPD role in the side. Our problems are as much list management as they are coaching. Now, it could be argued that the list is one that Beveridge has built, but changing coaches (like there is an easy way of doing that given his contract status) won't do much to address the flip side of issues that we face.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Didn't we address the assistant coaches being the sole source of everything that piles us meme last year when we brought Brendan Lade into the club?

I think most on here agree there are multiple issues at play, the challenge is how to prioritise them, and addressing some may help to address, or at least mitigate to some degree, others. Then of course there is the question of whether some are actual issues, or the imaginations of BF posters gone wild.

Quality of assistants - given no one posting here is privy to the inner sanctum, we really don't know if Spangher is a genius, or Bevo's puppet. Lade appears a good appointment - but again none of us know if it's working well or not. Webb and Smith likewise.

Beveridge - is he as autocratic as some on here believe? Certainly the media has played into that, but hard to find any specific evidence?

Ties into whether Grant (and Darcy, assistants, everyone else at the club) are variously seen as under Bevo's spell, best mates so reluctant to challenge him, not skilled enough at their job to perceive the issues, AI impostors installed by Bevo while the real versions are imprisoned in a VUWO basement under the supervision of Doc Zimmerman.

Game plan, ball movement, transition from defence/midfield into F50, Player skills esp goalkicking. These are more clear-cut in their visibility. But is it players failing to follow coaching directives, a coach or assistants floundering, lack of practice of skills, skills exacerbated by a sub-optimal game plan, probably a bit of each.

In 2016 the coach seemed to devise a game plan in conjunction wiry the composition of his list. They were able to adopt a frantic attack, coupled with the handball club used in an aggressive fashion, and allowances made for a defence composed of above average players like Morris and Boyd, Murphy and JJ covering for the limitations of KPDs like Roberts and Hamling, but the combination was potent enough to negate the deficiencies.
We've since become far more attacking off half back with JJ, Richards and Dale, but other than Duryea and this year LJones have lost some of that lockdown or as required common sense defence-first capability. Keath came as an interceptor but adapted well initially to also playing an accountable KPD role.
Bevo loves to go head to head in the midfield. That was all well and good while our midfield was able to dominate, but as they've aged and been superseded by quicker mids like Ports, and Dunkley moving on, even the best efforts of Bont and Liber this year can't hide the fact that we struggle as soon as one, or both, take a break, or are tagged, or have an off day.

Anyway, I've gone on another ramble, lost continuity either side of a work meeting, and forgotten what I was trying to say at the start!

Basically, how far do we need to dig in the organisation to address how we present both onfield, but also in the off field operational areas that influence, compliment and resource our coaching and playing contingent?

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

I'd argue that nothing much changed at Geelong until Jeremy Cameron and then Tyson Stengel arrived at the club in 2021 and 2022 respectively. Until then they'd spent 10 years of playing consistent but not really competitive finals series built on the back of a home ground advantage where they played mostly non-competitive sides.



The hand ball, run in waves high press seems to be the cornerstone of how Collingwood play right now. They also seem to play pretty wide defensively. It's just that they have the advantage of having the games premier attaching CHB at their disposal.

We on the other hand have a revolving door of middle of the road journeymen trying to fill the role.

I dont think it's a coincidence that we have lost all of the games that we've played since the injuries to JJ and Richards. Both of whom were instrumental in getting our season back on track. Both of whom were arguably in AA from at the time of their injury. We're a side not really blessed with a lot of pace through the middle or the ground their lose has crippled us transitioning the ball out of defence. All of the weight has been transferred onto the shoulders of Dale and his disposal has suffered accordingly.

For all of the stick that Beveridge and Co get for his supposed hubris, the reality is that we just dont have the quality across the list to cover when we get injuries to key players. Just look at the weekends side. It's a big ask to win with the likes of A. Jones. Baker. JO'D. West, and Bruce playing a KPD role in the side. Our problems are as much list management as they are coaching. Now, it could be argued that the list is one that Beveridge has built, but changing coaches (like there is an easy way of doing that given his contract status) won't do much to address the flip side of issues that we face.

I don't disagree. I think our list is extremely overrated, both here and in the media. But no list is perfect, and the best coaches bring out the strengths and hide the weaknesses. Just like you've said, our style does share similarities with Collingwood's, but it suits them as they have a strong defence. It doesn't suit us, so why are we persisting with it? Seeing as we have a weak defence, why do we never try to have a spare intercept option behind the ball? Why have we continued to flood the forward line like we're still playing small ball, instead of isolating and using our talls?

I'm honestly still leaning towards keeping Bevo tbh. No coach is perfect, and I can take the good with the bad. I even believe we can win a premiership in the next few years with a bit of luck. But I don't think we're getting the absolute best out of what we have.

 

[doggies ftw]

I'd argue that nothing much changed at Geelong until Jeremy Cameron and then Tyson Stengel arrived at the club in 2021 and 2022 respectively. Until then they'd spent 10 years of playing consistent but not really competitive finals series built on the back of a home ground advantage where they played mostly non-competitive sides.



The hand ball, run in waves high press seems to be the cornerstone of how Collingwood play right now. They also seem to play pretty wide defensively. It's just that they have the advantage of having the games premier attaching CHB at their disposal.

We on the other hand have a revolving door of middle of the road journeymen trying to fill the role.

I dont think it's a coincidence that we have lost all of the games that we've played since the injuries to JJ and Richards. Both of whom were instrumental in getting our season back on track. Both of whom were arguably in AA from at the time of their injury. We're a side not really blessed with a lot of pace through the middle or the ground their lose has crippled us transitioning the ball out of defence. All of the weight has been transferred onto the shoulders of Dale and his disposal has suffered accordingly.

For all of the stick that Beveridge and Co get for his supposed hubris, the reality is that we just dont have the quality across the list to cover when we get injuries to key players. Just look at the weekends side. It's a big ask to win with the likes of A. Jones. Baker. JO'D. West, and Bruce playing a KPD role in the side. Our problems are as much list management as they are coaching. Now, it could be argued that the list is one that Beveridge has built, but changing coaches (like there is an easy way of doing that given his contract status) won't do much to address the flip side of issues that we face.

Pies don’t really play a high press at all, they sit back and invite the ball in because they know they’ll get you on the counter where they go through the corridor at all costs whether it’s by hand or foot.

It’s pretty much the opposite of our forward half press. We’re also petrified of using the corridor and would prefer to chip around the outside before going long down the line.

Also their handball game is based around forward run & spread. They spread the ground and don’t get sucked into the contest the only time they handball is forward. We do the complete opposite - we congest the ground as much as possible (Pies would never bring an extra up into the stoppage from HF)

Our handball game is all in tight based around bulk numbers in the contest, and flicking it around to find an opening. Which evidently has been found out for the past 5 years and now results in us overusing the ball going backwards. They don’t overuse the ball by hand, they move it forward, in the space they’ve created by spreading the ground.

Our styles could not be more different, they’re pretty much the anti-bulldogs in the way they play - It’s gonna get ugly when we play them they are going to embarrass us

 

[maddog37]

Whatever happens. I think it's a good thing for any coach or any head of an organisation to be called out when confusing decisions are made. And when inconsistency becomes the norm.
Would I sack Bevo right now? No. I'd wait till the end of the season.
If we're not sacking Bevo. Would I be happy with a whole bunch of new senior assistant's? As long as they're not ' yes men ' like Maple was. I would consider that a step in the right direction.
I would think most people on here would be disappointed if the 2024 season rolls around and we have essentially the same coaching set up.

How do we know Maple was a yes man??

 

[ringa5]

Interesting how Man City changed their system over and over through out the season past.
Not comparing City with the Dogs .
Different game and economies.
Just the tactical nous.
And changing things up as required
To be ahead of the rest.
The hand ball game worked under certain circumstances then it didn't.
Naughton in the goal square doesn't always work.
Even Haaland has to defend sometimes under Pep.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I don't disagree. I think our list is extremely overrated, both here and in the media. But no list is perfect, and the best coaches bring out the strengths and hide the weaknesses. Just like you've said, our style does share similarities with Collingwood's, but it suits them as they have a strong defence. It doesn't suit us, so why are we persisting with it? Seeing as we have a weak defence, why do we never try to have a spare intercept option behind the ball? Why have we continued to flood the forward line like we're still playing small ball, instead of isolating and using our talls?

Our PA% would suggest that defence ist our biggest issue. I think with the inclusion of Jones our defensive half is significantly improved when our best 6 are assembled. The problem is that with the injuries to JJ and Richards combined with the unsettled nature regarding who is best suited to play the second tall defenders role this has placed too high a burden on the likes of Jones and Dale. We need to settle on who it is that is going to play CHB and stick with it. Personally I think it needs to be Keath or indeed Naughton. The Bruce in defence experiment needs to go straight in the bin. We need to have good ball users coming out of defence, not slow ditherers with poor foot skills.

Our problems are centre and forward of the ball. Why I really dont know. I'd really love to know if it's a directive from the coaches box to come out of the defensive half like a crab from out under a rock and kick it wide to a multiple forwards.

I'm honestly still leaning towards keeping Bevo tbh. No coach is perfect, and I can take the good with the bad. I even believe we can win a premiership in the next few years with a bit of luck. But I don't think we're getting the absolute best out of what we have.

Agreed, but I think it's as much a personnel issue as it is a coaching one. We just dont bat as deeply as we should. But I also think this is still an ongoing consequence of being forced to pay a market price for JUH and Darcy

Pies don’t really play a high press at all, they sit back and invite the ball in because they know they’ll get you on the counter where they go through the corridor at all costs whether it’s by hand or foot.

They play a pretty high defensive press based around playing Moore as a traditional CHB cornerstone.

It’s pretty much the opposite of our forward half press. We’re also petrified of using the corridor and would prefer to chip around the outside before going long down the line.

Thats because they have completely different forward set up than we we do. They have a forward line made up of medium, smalls and a resting ruckman forward. Brody Mihocek for example is essentially the same height as Jack Macae who is currently playing in our forward line. This would make Mihocek our 4th tall forward.

Also their handball game is based around forward run & spread. They spread the ground and don’t get sucked into the contest the only time they handball is forward. We do the complete opposite - we congest the ground as much as possible (Pies would never bring an extra up into the stoppage from HF)

I never said that their game was exactly like ours. I said that they hand ball and run in waves like we do at our best.

Outside of that, we're nothing alike and neither are our lists.

Our handball game is all in tight based around bulk numbers in the contest, and flicking it around to find an opening. Which evidently has been found out for the past 5 years and now results in us overusing the ball going backwards. They don’t overuse the ball by hand, they move it forward, in the space they’ve created by spreading the ground.

Yes. You may've read me banging on about this very issue especially when the better sides turn up the pressure. However I think this is as much a consequence of us not recruiting/developing enough players with pace who can run and carry the ball. I mentioned somewhere in the preseason discussion that with us going all in on talls that we were going counter to where the game was heading. One were the teams with dynamic and very deep midfields were going to dominate the game. I had a feeling we were setting up to fight the last war, not the coming one.

Our styles could not be more different, they’re pretty much the anti-bulldogs in the way they play - It’s gonna get ugly when we play them they are going to embarrass us

Again. I didn't say that we we're exactly the same. I said that aspects of their game were like ours. They're just better equipped to play that game because they have a wider spread of skilled utility types and aren't wedded to the crazy idea of revolutionising the game by playing 8-9 genuine talls in the same side.

So yes, you're correct. They couldn't possibly be more different to us.

 

[doggies ftw]

Our PA% would suggest that defence ist our biggest issue. I think with the inclusion of Jones our defensive half is significantly improved when our best 6 are assembled. The problem is that with the injuries to JJ and Richards combined with the unsettled nature regarding who is best suited to play the second tall defenders role this has placed too high a burden on the likes of Jones and Dale. We need to settle on who it is that is going to play CHB and stick with it. Personally I think it needs to be Keath or indeed Naughton. The Bruce in defence experiment needs to go straight in the bin. We need to have good ball users coming out of defence, not slow ditherers with poor foot skills.

Our problems are centre and forward of the ball. Why I really dont know. I'd really love to know if it's a directive from the coaches box to come out of the defensive half like a crab from out under a rock and kick it wide to a multiple forwards.

Agreed, but I think it's as much a personnel issue as it is a coaching one. We just dont bat as deeply as we should. But I also think this is still an ongoing consequence of being forced to pay a market price for JUH and Darcy



They play a pretty high defensive press based around playing Moore as a traditional CHB cornerstone.


Thats because they have completely different forward set up than we we do. They have a forward line made up of medium, smalls and a resting ruckman forward. Brody Mihocek for example is essentially the same height as Jack Macae who is currently playing in our forward line. This would make Mihocek our 4th tall forward.


I never said that their game was exactly like ours. I said that they hand ball and run in waves like we do at our best.

Outside of that, we're nothing alike and neither are our lists.


Yes. You may've read me banging on about this very issue especially when the better sides turn up the pressure. However I think this is as much a consequence of us not recruiting/developing enough players with pace who can run and carry the ball. I mentioned somewhere in the preseason discussion that with us going all in on talls that we were going counter to where the game was heading. One were the teams with dynamic and very deep midfields were going to dominate the game. I had a feeling we were setting up to fight the last war, not the coming one.

Again. I didn't say that we we're exactly the same. I said that aspects of their game were like ours. They're just better equipped to play that game because they have a wider spread of skilled utility types and aren't wedded to the crazy idea of revolutionising the game by playing 8-9 genuine talls in the same side.

So yes, you're correct. They couldn't possibly be more different to us.

Wasn’t having a go at your post just I see it pop up a lot that the best offensive teams play a pretty handball happy style like us, but it’s so different to the handball happy style that we play.

I don’t necessarily think it’s due to having too many talls that we play this way - it just seems like a clear directive to congest both ends of the ground when the balls down one end, whilst all the best teams are working on spreading the field as much as possible.

For example I think our tall forward line is more reason to go direct through the corridor. I’d love to see Naughty hit up at the ball straight down the centre of the ground. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him do this, we favour the boundary line wherever possible it just has to be a directive. We’ve got some of the best creative kicks off half back in the comp we should be using them.

We’re so scared of the ball coming back over our head that we play scared, and risk less football - and we wonder why we can’t score? And yet the ball still flys back over our head anyway.

If we had the balls to hit up a Naughty or English at CHF leading right up the centre of the ground these guys are good enough that they’re going to win more than they lose, and then we have a quick deep entry to our marking forwards. Yeah sure the odd one will be turned over and probably taken straight back over our heads for a goal but at least when we do win a contest going forward it’s going to be a genuine scoring opportunity

Not the slow, crap inside 50s we rack up all game that are unlikely to actually trouble the scoreboard.

Also when we have the ball locked in our forward line our deepest defender is still within a kick in the play, yeah it brings repeat entries but what do we get out of them? Nothing and it’s only a matter of time until they get it out over the back and beat us for leg speed back towards goal, teams are clearly setting up to do this now and we’re making it so easy.

I’d love to see us set Jones, Keath etc right back two kicks behind the play, and a smaller sweeper too. Clear out the forward line of talls, Ie Naughty can take the ruck, English and Lobb set up a kick behind play to lock it in and Jones, Keath etc another kick further behind - there’s just no need to be pressing these guys right up to the 50 too when we have so many talls.

 

[yebach]

How do we know Maple was a yes man??

Daryrlimple said as much.

 

[maddog37]

Daryrlimple said as much.

When did this occur?

 

[CarnTheScray]

I am darylmple. Yes i said that.

 

[yebach]

When did this occur?

He was interviewed after he went to Sydney. And no I don't have the actual interview on hand.

 

[dergert]

When did this occur?

I've heard the interview. Dalrymple did say it.

I'm sure someone could link it here.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Wasn’t having a go at your post just I see it pop up a lot that the best offensive teams play a pretty handball happy style like us, but it’s so different to the handball happy style that we play.

No drama, I wouldn't be bothered if you were.

Not having access to the inner sanctum of the club I dont claim to have any answers. Im just making lots of suppositions.

If they're wrong thats ok.

I don’t necessarily think it’s due to having too many talls that we play this way - it just seems like a clear directive to congest both ends of the ground when the balls down one end, whilst all the best teams are working on spreading the field as much as possible.

I think it is. It robs us of opportunities to move the ball at pace. Especially because so many of the talls we have in defence are reactionary and poor users of the ball. It's also something that doesn't come easy to a midfield that isn't blessed with pace. It's why I pointed out a few posts ago the correlation between our form over the last 3 weeks and the injuries to the two most damaging ball carriers we have coming out of defence. I think you're correct about congesting our defensive and attacking halves but I think it's directly because we are so tall. There just aren't enough run and carry utilities in our side to move the ball between the arcs with real fluidity.

For example I think our tall forward line is more reason to go direct through the corridor. I’d love to see Naughty hit up at the ball straight down the centre of the ground. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him do this, we favour the boundary line wherever possible it just has to be a directive. We’ve got some of the best creative kicks off half back in the comp we should be using them.

Sure, but the hard, multiple dummy leads dont really come naturally to Naugton. One only needs to look at how well JUH does it to see the difference between the two. Naughton is regressing to a time where his one wood was taking pack marks. I dont necessarily think this is a consequence of our structures (such as they are) or forward delivery (such as it is) it's just what he does best. He really needs to get on his bike and direct where he wants the ball. If we're going to insist on playing JUH, Naughton and Lobb in the same side. Then the first two should be working up and towards the 50 arc presenting at the ball carrier. Lobb should play deep and nowhere near the wings.

Again, I'd love to know if it's a coaching directive to bring the ball in slow and wide and either deliver it to the arc or 15 metres out and easily killed. If it was, I'd be first in line to load Beveridge into a cannon and fire him into the sun.

We’re so scared of the ball coming back over our head that we play scared, and risk less football - and we wonder why we can’t score? And yet the ball still flys back over our head anyway.

If we had the balls to hit up a Naughty or English at CHF leading right up the centre of the ground these guys are good enough that they’re going to win more than they lose, and then we have a quick deep entry to our marking forwards. Yeah sure the odd one will be turned over and probably taken straight back over our heads for a goal but at least when we do win a contest going forward it’s going to be a genuine scoring opportunity

See above.

Not the slow, crap inside 50s we rack up all game that are unlikely to actually trouble the scoreboard.

Also when we have the ball locked in our forward line our deepest defender is still within a kick in the play, yeah it brings repeat entries but what do we get out of them? Nothing and it’s only a matter of time until they get it out over the back and beat us for leg speed back towards goal, teams are clearly setting up to do this now and we’re making it so easy.

We're our own worst enemy when it comes to converting i50 opportunities into goals. Some of the crucial set shots that are relatively easy that we miss are just embarrassing.

I think we have our defenders are a little further back than that at about a kick and a half, but the problem of not being able to retain the ball in our forward half often leaves them stranded in no mans land as the ball comes at or over them at pace. I think Ive said enough about our leg speed.

I’d love to see us set Jones, Keath etc right back two kicks behind the play, and a smaller sweeper too. Clear out the forward line of talls, Ie Naughty can take the ruck, English and Lobb set up a kick behind play to lock it in and Jones, Keath etc another kick further behind - there’s just no need to be pressing these guys right up to the 50 too when we have so many talls.

The problem with this is that it allows the other team to get numbers into our forward half and control its egress due to weight of numbers..

Its why we never see anybody playing the traditional fullbacks role of goal keeper and why every side has everybody forward of centre when the ball is being kicked in.

We just need to get better at retaining the ball inside 50. Because once it's free our mids and defenders invariably get burnt as teams play checkers around them. Thats why Im adamant that this side is just too tall. Something that as a bulldogs supporter I thought Id never say.

I'd like to see us playing a spine of Jones. Keath. English. Naughton. JUH and one of Lobb or Darcy when fit. Thats it for talls. Gardner, Bruce and TO'B nest in line should one or more of these guys get injured or lose form. And forth love of god, let J O'D build his game at Footscray. The way he's been introduced into the side is nearly enough for preparations for Bevo to be loaded into the cannon. It just beggars belief.

Im probably straying a little too O/T and repeating myself now.

I'll go back to watching the flat circle that this thread has become from the bench.

 

[NBates]

This is probably conspiracy theorist, but the thought just occurred to me this afternoon that maybe the Hall of Fame & the inductees (Bob, Boydy, Morris) was what the club thought might be the last opportunity to get the band back together while Bevo is still there....

 

[BIG_BONTS]

This is probably conspiracy theorist, but the thought just occurred to me this afternoon that maybe the Hall of Fame & the inductees (Bob, Boydy, Morris) was what the club thought might be the last opportunity to get the band back together while Bevo is still there....

Would love Boyd or Morris back at the club. Miss their toughness

 

[maddog37]

He was interviewed after he went to Sydney. And no I don't have the actual interview on hand.

Okay. Bad blood. Grain of salt.

 

[Claudonious]

This is somewhat enlightening for someone (myself) who bemoans our inconsistency. I know we know all of this, but sometimes in pictorial form it's just more obvious. Particularly compared with other teams we're actually pretty consistent - on average the 7th best team in the comp under Bevo. That's not to be sniffed at, particularly with a flag and a GF appearance to go alongside it.

My guess is if we broke down the results over that time we'd also be fairly consistent in terms of losing to better teams and winning against lower teams (again, something you'd probably expect from a team that's consistently in the bottom half of the eight).

The question is whether or not you think we should be better than that. Should we be contending for top four, and have at least 2-3 appearances in that bracket across the past 8 years? Again, I don't have the stats but it's not like I can recall horrific runs with injury like some clubs get across this period, save for a couple of small clusters and the odd Libba ACL.

I'm still in the camp that a new coach would provide a fresh perspective as well as some more consistency in team selection - which I think is a major issue. However, the discussion over Richmond is a good one, because I think that Bevo could potentially recapture the magic he had if put within a stronger footy department and coaching structure where gameplan and team selection were subject to more rigorous examination by good football minds.

However, I do also agree with some of the posters above that we have two fairly entrenched camps now and we're regurgitating the same arguments. For my part I'll try to refrain from doing so much more in this thread at least (with the caveat that once I'm alcoholically impaired I will likely continue to melt in GD threads and autopsy threads.....)

We were smashed by injuries last year….especially early. The odd acl - rubbish.

Every second post over the years has been about sacking our medical team - but apparently we have been injury free.

Similar to “we have a great list and want for nothing” - immediately followed by “ we have terrible key backs and have done nothing about it and have zero depth”

Which is it? A fabulous list with a crap coach, or a crap bottom end list with a great coach….or a very good coach and a list with some issues? I suspect the latter….


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[Dogs_r_barking]

I would like to see the evidence that Bevo’s salary is soaking up all the resources for assistant coaches. A couple of people made comments and it has been accepted as fact with no evidence.

We are doing a $80mil development, and anyone who has built a house will know costs blowout, I am assuming that is why we are penny pinching to cover the additional expenses, because the club has cut back on a number of member benefits.

One cut, I found out in the weekend is we no longer have the two guest passes to the social club, on top of the extra costs to attend Ballarat. We can afford to buy them, but our support base are not the most affluent and are finding things tough.