Coach Do you still have any faith in Bevo? [POLL]

[lachy]

Beveridge intimated last week in his presser that if/when Bont was tagged, he would go forward, as a "6 foot 4" mid going forward would be a challenge. I know Liber went down, but Bont could have pushed forward for a short period with a mid rotation of Treloar, Macrae and Smith/West.
Was there any attempt to shake Bont's tag, or even Liber's while still in the game?

Simply answered, no.

Scenario's would have been planned all week, knowing how the Hawks are currently structuring and playing so moving Bont forward was an obvious change during the match.

Libba got injured, obviously not planned for, and it appeared we tried nothing to change something that was no longer working with Libba off

 

[Sentinel]

I seriously think we could look back to discussions about this topic from close to 5 years ago and a lot of the comments would be exactly the same as they are now.

The coaching problems have seemed glaringly obvious for a long, long time but for whatever reason the club just refuses to do much about it.

 

[adogsfan5]

I seriously think we could look back to discussions about this topic from close to 5 years ago and a lot of the comments would be exactly the same as they are now.

The coaching problems have seemed glaringly obvious for a long, long time but for whatever reason the club just refuses to do much about it.

Playing in the GF in 2021 maybe papered over the cracks?

 

[Unorth]

I seriously think we could look back to discussions about this topic from close to 5 years ago and a lot of the comments would be exactly the same as they are now.

The coaching problems have seemed glaringly obvious for a long, long time but for whatever reason the club just refuses to do much about it.

When you look at each Bevo season in isolation, fair to say that more than half have been utter disappointments results wise. Dalrymple was probably more instrumental in 2016 than the club thought.

Even in 2021, despite making the gf, we fumbled top 4 so hard it was embarrassing. It seems unlikely anything changes results wise, but who knows, if we didn’t have to travel all around the country while the demons chilled in Perth.

It’s obvious bevo can be a great motivator and needs a lot of help tactically - and we’ve bled/pushed out the support he used to have, replacing them with a minimum chips coach’s box.

Sadly I think the time of ‘just get him better assistants’ has passed. It’s beyond that now, we should have acted on these issues long ago.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Simply answered, no.

Scenario's would have been planned all week, knowing how the Hawks are currently structuring and playing so moving Bont forward was an obvious change during the match.

Libba got injured, obviously not planned for, and it appeared we tried nothing to change something that was no longer working with Libba off

Sorry, I'm a little confused. So Bont didn't go forward - either before or after Liber went down?
It certainly sounded like a planned move (Bont), even with Liber going down, if Bont was being effectively tagged out of the game.

I'm not sure what you mean by "we tried nothing to change something that was no longer working"? Do you mean there was no point pushing Bont forward with Liber off?

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Beveridge intimated last week in his presser that if/when Bont was tagged, he would go forward, as a "6 foot 4" mid going forward would be a challenge. I know Liber went down, but Bont could have pushed forward for a short period with a mid rotation of Treloar, Macrae and Smith/West.
Was there any attempt to shake Bont's tag, or even Liber's while still in the game?

The Bont wasn't tagged though. If he was it wasn't through the expected means of Maginness. That was the obvious play and Sam Mitchell is too smart for the obvious. Once Libba went down Maginness rotated though multiple players on a needs be basis. Starting with nullifying Dale to the extent that he was shifted forward. It was so obvious that the commentary team were remarking about "The Cooler" every time he had a new opponent. Anyways...The issue wasn't Maginness. It was Newcombe and Day's offensive power. Our sides kryptonite.

 

[Pugz89]

That would be piss weak from Rohan if he were doing this as a protest over not being renewed?

If that was the reason, he'd have walked last week. Think the clue is in the timing of it, coming off a loss to a team we should have easily accounted for and perhaps a symptom of a wider issue behind the scenes.

 

[lachy]

Sorry, I'm a little confused. So Bont didn't go forward - either before or after Liber went down?
It certainly sounded like a planned move (Bont), even with Liber going down, if Bont was being effectively tagged out of the game.

I'm not sure what you mean by "we tried nothing to change something that was no longer working"? Do you mean there was no point pushing Bont forward with Liber off?

Not any more than he usually does in every game, certainly not to isolate him and expose he tagger. Perhaps OG can confirm with stats but he seemed to attend at least the same amount of stoppages possibly more once Libba went down

 

[Whoyagot]

I remember Bont said in an interview after the Brisbane win we needed to get back to basics as a team.

I also remember some ITKs saying after the st Kilda loss, some from the playing group met with some club execs without the coaches.

I reckon privately, Bont is fed up with the coaches and pissed they’re not creating the outcomes he thinks we should be as a group.

Bont is also the captain and represents the players who by all accounts have never been more tight.

There seems like there’s a clear divide emerging.

 

[immortalmike]

Playing in the GF in 2021 maybe papered over the cracks?

The grand final was nice but we were never winning it.
We mentally couldn't keep up with Melbourne that year.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

I remember Bont said in an interview after the Brisbane win we needed to get back to basics as a team.

I also remember some ITKs saying after the st Kilda loss, some from the playing group met with some club execs without the coaches.

I reckon privately, Bont is fed up with the coaches and pissed they’re not creating the outcomes he thinks we should be as a group.

Bont is also the captain and represents the players who by all accounts have never been more tight.

There seems like there’s a clear divide emerging.

+1 This is my gut feeling as well.

I've watched Bont since before we drafted him (I'm also an Eltham kid) - I have never seen him more pissed off on field than I have this season.

 

[adogsfan5]

The grand final was nice but we were never winning it.
We mentally couldn't keep up with Melbourne that year.

Hmm I’m not so sure about that.. knocked them off at the G late in the season before we dropped off.

It also highlighted our main huge issue - leaking numerous goals in a row. So perhaps we’re just mentally weak in general?

 

[_Cerberus_]

Say Bevo does get the flick, or decides to walk away. Who would be leading canidates to be head coach?

I seen Cameron and Dew mentioned as possible assistants. Which I would not mind. Not keen on ex Bulldogs as head coaches (boys club / too matey with certain board members kind of thing), or someone who couldn't lift a team out the same spot on the ladder as head coach at the Suns.

Whom at Pies, Cats or Demons could be gettable, and that have a good reputation? Rather target successful and good programs, and a coach who can get the best out of his team like McRae does at Collingwood.

Mind you, we could end up with a worse coach. Such is the risk we take in changing over.

I am a semi Bevo fan, but I also do believe that coaches do have a time limit before their message becomes stale. You might get the odd Clarkson, or one like Scott who held on because he keeps finishing top four, or get lucky like Hardwick did at the Tigers, where he was close to being removed. But for the most part, I reckon a decade is a long time. We keep finishing around the same spot on the ladder and never once made top four. The improvement we'd expect as fans just has not eventuated. Along with carrying the same weaknesses the last two seasons and inability to adapt to the modern game.

I am down for a fresh voice. But at the same time, am nervous as its hard to find a good coach, yet alone the right one.

 

[hutchy31]

Playing in the GF in 2021 maybe papered over the cracks?

I've said this in some other threads previously I think (probably even this one), but the Brisbane SF in 2021 was a massive moment. If the ball bounces slightly differently when Cameron and Duryea are running on to it there's a decent chance Cameron gathers and streaks away for what is likely the winning goal.

There's obviously no guarantee 2022 and 2023 would have played out exactly like they have following that change to history, but if they did then we'd have been looking at Bevo's record post grand final as only winning one final in the following six seasons (miss, miss, EF, EF, SF (1 win), EF).

Making that GF was a godsend at the time, with lockdowns and disappointed kids who had a great few weeks in the run to the GF. I wouldn't swap it. But it would have been very interesting to see how things had played out if that one moment goes differently.

 

[Mutt]

+1 This is my gut feeling as well.

I've watched Bont since before we drafted him (I'm also an Eltham kid) - I have never seen him more pissed off on field than I have this season.

The small glimpses we get of Bont in the rooms after games and also on the ground after a loss does hint that he is not a happy camper. His body language is shithouse. I'm not criticising Bont...just making an observation.

 

[adogsfan5]

I've said this in some other threads previously I think (probably even this one), but the Brisbane SF in 2021 was a massive moment. If the ball bounces slightly differently when Cameron and Duryea are running on to it there's a decent chance Cameron gathers and streaks away for what is likely the winning goal.

There's obviously no guarantee 2022 and 2023 would have played out exactly like they have following that change to history, but if they did then we'd have been looking at Bevo's record post grand final as only winning one final in the following six seasons (miss, miss, EF, EF, SF (1 win), EF).

Making that GF was a godsend at the time, with lockdowns and disappointed kids who had a great few weeks in the run to the GF. I wouldn't swap it. But it would have been very interesting to see how things had played out if that one moment goes differently.

I think there’s plenty of hypotheticals that can be made mate. The following week, we were outstanding for the full game against Port. I was confident we were the second or third best team in it in 2021.
For most of 2021, it was the best i have seen us play since 15/16.

 

[adammonerz]

The small glimpses we get of Bont in the rooms after games and also on the ground after a loss does hint that he is not a happy camper. His body language is shithouse. I'm not criticising Bont...just making an observation.

He has looked and sounded so fed up this year and some parts of last, it's actually a shock to the system cause he always seemed to be really optimistic even when things were not clicking in 2017/18. Probably knows his only got a good few years left in him and is at the peak of his powers and has nobody going with him most days except for Libba.

Like if you told me four years ago he would throw his mouthguard in rage I'd be shocked the bloke just didn't seem to have that type of anger in him. I know he won't pull a Griff cause the bloke is just way to loyal but that always lingers in my head as the biggest nightmare scenario.

 

[adogsfan5]

The small glimpses we get of Bont in the rooms after games and also on the ground after a loss does hint that he is not a happy camper. His body language is shithouse. I'm not criticising Bont...just making an observation.

Not surprising given his work rate and the fact he just throws himself at the contest. He seems to spray (not in a bad way) a lot of players mid game too.

 

[Unorth]

I love that Bont is intervening. I wish he’d done so sooner.

Writing was on the wall with a players only dinner after only round 2 (that has to be a record for shit hitting the fan in a season). The mouth guard tossing kind of behaviour is fair enough - we’re squandering the prime of he and others.

He doesn’t strike me as the ultimatum type, and if he issued one that would be the easiest decision the club will ever make. Would be equally shocked if he pulled a Griff - because his behaviour is demonstrating how much he cares.

Some have knocked Bonts leadership for not always being visible/apparent, but it’s pretty out there now.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Say Bevo does get the flick, or decides to walk away. Who would be leading canidates to be head coach?

I seen Cameron and Dew mentioned as possible assistants. Which I would not mind. Not keen on ex Bulldogs as head coaches (boys club / too matey with certain board members kind of thing), or someone who couldn't lift a team out the same spot on the ladder as head coach at the Suns.

Whom at Pies, Cats or Demons could be gettable, and that have a good reputation? Rather target successful and good programs, and a coach who can get the best out of his team like McRae does at Collingwood.

Mind you, we could end up with a worse coach. Such is the risk we take in changing over.

I am a semi Bevo fan, but I also do believe that coaches do have a time limit before their message becomes stale. You might get the odd Clarkson, or one like Scott who held on because he keeps finishing top four, or get lucky like Hardwick did at the Tigers, where he was close to being removed. But for the most part, I reckon a decade is a long time. We keep finishing around the same spot on the ladder and never once made top four. The improvement we'd expect as fans just has not eventuated. Along with carrying the same weaknesses the last two seasons and inability to adapt to the modern game.

I am down for a fresh voice. But at the same time, am nervous as its hard to find a good coach, yet alone the right one.

The bare minimum these days for a successful senior coach is finding someone who has already tasted success as a player or assistant. You’d have to go as far back as Paul Roos (did he ever win a flag prior to Sydney winning with him as senior coach?) to find a flag winner who hadn’t.

The AFLCA assistant coach of the year award has been a good indicator over the last decade or so. McRae, Kingsley, Dew, Shaw all have won it in the last 10 years. It’s for that reason I reckon there’s two obvious candidates: Troy Chaplin and Gia.

Chaplin being an outside voice who led the Demons league-best defence in 2021, while Gia led our forwards in 2016 and is renowned for his people management skills (and may suit the preferred the structure moving forward of people manager at the top and strategists beneath him)

 

[mattwa]

Josh Carr

Josh Carr

Age

44

Ht

179cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.8

3star

might be available now after Ken has got an extension

 

[lachy]

Josh Carr might be available now after Ken has got an extension

If we are going down the path of replacing Bev there will be many alternatives.

Key is if we go with a current assistant surround them with some experience

 

[_Cerberus_]

If we are going down the path of replacing Bev there will be many alternatives.

Key is if we go with a current assistant surround them with some experience

Like Melbourne did, they even have Choco as head of development with 40 years behind him in footy. Richardson, Yze, Chaplin. The only one I am not familiar with is their forward coach Stafford, and that is their weakest line. Geelong have a pretty solid coaching staff. Collingwood have experienced coaches, premiership players, or ex players with a high football IQ.

The Bulldogs need to stop being tight, and use the soft cap and pay for proper coaches. Stop letting the club be a training ground or development school for raw coaches. We need experienced minds. And stop leaving searches for assistant and line coaches to the very last minute, so we have to scrap the bottom of the barrel to fill in gaps. We are meant to be pushing contention, thus need strong and experienced minds to surround the group to push them to the next level.

Also a group that work well together, no power trips or one persons opinion being more important than another. The best coaches work well as a team and communicate well with each other and the players.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

That's all good, and everyone can say yay or nay (and most do respectfully) but that particular comment I quoted was a poor one.

As it stands, the most likely scenario is he continues next year in a different role - more Ken Hinkley style (as has been alluded to recently on a different site) with a senior assistant pulling more of the strings.

For the record I'm actually comfortable for Bevo to continue if his role is changed/reduced as per that scenario. I don't think he can continue in the current level of role/responsibility so it's either a change of role, or he steps down for me.
If he did step down I certainly wouldn't want to wish harm on the bloke, or any of our players (and some of what they've copped on social media is absolutely criminal).

I originally thought Bevo, surrounded by experienced assistant coaches, but now I think he just needs to go, he won’t get in with others making decisions over him. New broom sweeps clean.

 

[charcoalchicken]

I originally thought Bevo, surrounded by experienced assistant coaches, but now I think he just needs to go, he won’t get in with others making decisions over him. New broom sweeps clean.

Tbf this needed to occur last season and the board completely half arsed it

Looks like it is going to happen this off season but maybe a season too late, who knows

Signing him up to a two year extension before the season even began was pure stupidity