Does Geelong have the worst midfield in the AFL?

[Warhorse]

The best half forwards in the comp

We were running with Parfitt, Bruhn and Atkins as starting mids for parts of this season. That is by far the worst in the league.

The coach got Dangerfield back from injury, moved Stewart to the sweeper role in the midfield (we were leaking goals on the spread, though didnt play last night) and has pushed Mannagh high who has had a huge impact. Hinckley was totally outcoached with a far more talented midfield at his disposal.

He has replaced Stewart's kicking and drive from defensive with Humphries with Stewart floating I kick behind play when needed. Some really good coaching to get the most out of the list to hide the deficiency in the midfield.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nank, Taranto, Bolton, Prestia, Hopper, Dusty

Vs

Stanley, Dangerfield, Bruhn, Atkins, Bowes, Stewart

Hard to split that if all fully healthy. Richmond's injury list is as long as the yellow pages though so we'd never know.

But let's just say they are... Geelong has the 2nd worst midfield in the AFL, slightly ahead of the wooden spooners...

Yep.
What the hell did Martin do this year that was worth anything? He was absurdly bad. He wouldn’t have made the Cats 22. Prestia is a decent player still. Hopper was rubbish. Taranto was ok. Bolton is a quality footballer. Nankervis is still decent. They’re not an elite group mate. They’re some solid players who aren’t going to cause headaches for any opponent aside from Bolton.

They’re still not a better midfield than ours.

West coast aren’t either. On paper at their peak they would have been but Gaff - who’s retired now anyway - and Sheed hardly played a game, Reid for all his highlights wasn’t actually all that amazing (he obviously will be). Kelly is their best midfielder and is class.
That’s without deep diving into any of the other 15 sides we finished ahead of.

 

[Sttew]

Who has a worse midfield than the Cats?

Who cares really? If you can win without a star studded midfield like Carlton, Port Power, WB etc, it doesn't matter. Cats have proved that 17 times in 2024.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals.

 

[My Tilly]

Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals.

Didn't you think Port Adelaide would take care of us pregame

 

[Delisted]

Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals.

Or their cheat ground with fake crowd noise affirmation.

 

[PhatBoy]

Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals.

You’re not taking this very well are you.

 

[PhatBoy]

Or their cheat ground with fake crowd noise affirmation.

Yes, the ground where we had the same record as the MCG this year. That’s what got us into the 8. The ground where we had a 66 per cent record this year which was….. the same as our 66 per cent record this year.

No thats, that’s a good point.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Or their cheat ground with fake crowd noise affirmation.

Or Steve Hocking or the umpires or the stand rule or the fixture or the CFL

 

[Sttew]

Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals.

Your unending obsession with the Cats is very embarrassing, a bit like the game Power dished up last night. You proudly announced it would be a delight for you to witness Cats get bundled out of the 2024 finals race in straight sets. It didn't happen, so now you take it to the ridiculous - "if they didn't have Cameron..."

IIRC, you Falcon said the exact same thing in 2022.

What does your analyst say about this unhealthy obsession? What does your mother say?

 

[PhatBoy]

Your unending obsession with the Cats is very embarrassing, a bit like the game Power dished up last night. You proudly announced it would be a delight for you to witness Cats get bundled out of the 2024 finals race in straight sets. It didn't happen, so now you take it to the ridiculous - "if they didn't have Cameron..."

What does your analyst say about this unhealthy obsession? What does your mother say?

Or big brother Meteoric Rise

 

[DanA]

Holmes All Australian?
Stewart's a defender who starts at centre bounces but that's it
Dangerfield is 34
Blicavs is washed as hell and played ruck and down back most of the night
C.Guthrie is playing VFL these days
Bruhn a 15-20 touch specialist who doesn't have a good enough tank


Yeah, it's pretty awful on paper.

As I said, Geelongs half forwards (who are the best in the league) make up for that by coming up to stoppage but the actual midfield is basically Danger or bust

So what's the criteria i'm to follow. Is this an on paper exercise, are we assessing game roles, are we talking careers, this season, or just the last game or two?

Blicavs has played a lot as a midfielder the last few years, mostly as a ruck this year, but he certainly did a number of Dixon as a defender in last nights final. One aspect that doesn't appear on paper is that Dixon was run ragged as Blicavs presented as a link man. That no doubt impacted Dixon's ability to present as a forward. Regardless, he's hardly washed and still a matchup headache.

Yeah, I got the Holmes bit wrong, I still maintain he's one of the emerging stars in the AFL but not an All Australian.

Stewart's role is unique but I'd most definitely class him as a midfielder the last few months. He's not just starting at centre bounces in the middle and then dropping back to a typical defensive role like you are suggesting. He's been averaging around 4 clearances a game and around 5 tackles with his role much more of a midfield sweeper who rotates occasionally back as a defender. The exception being round 22 against Freo where he was purely a defender.

Cam Guthrie isn't a VFL player, I don't think he's played a VFL game in some time. He is coming back through the VFL this week off long-term injury (he's only been healthy 10 games the last two seasons). Prior to his bad injury (turf toe, then quad) he was a B&F winner in a premiership season.

Bruhn for sure has a tank issue and you are right, he's a 15-20 possession player. But that 15-20 possessions is coming from reduced time on ground. On a per minute basis he's an elite midfielder.

And you left out Atkins. Had some groin issues throughout the year but looked back to his best against Port. He's been a really important cog. He averaged 8.6 tackles per game in our 2022 finals campaign.

Dangerfield and the half forwards are important for sure. But playing 68% TOG last night and that also being his season average. Why is he carrying Geelong's midfield more than say Libba, Neale, Cripps, or Tom Green who play 20% more game time than him, and don't really rest forward?

 

[Boxhead_31]

Or Steve Hocking or the umpires or the stand rule or the fixture or the CFL

Or stashing players in the Bellarine Peninsula League

 

[Cleansweep17]

Your unending obsession with the Cats is very embarrassing, a bit like the game Power dished up last night. You proudly announced it would be a delight for you to witness Cats get bundled out of the 2024 finals race in straight sets. It didn't happen, so now you take it to the ridiculous - "if they didn't have Cameron..."

IIRC, you Falcon said the exact same thing in 2022.

What does your analyst say about this unhealthy obsession? What does your mother say?

Not sure if you realise but a final was just played yesterday. It’s sort of a big deal and something to discuss.

 

[Mr Meow]

Holmes All Australian?
Stewart's a defender who starts at centre bounces but that's it
Dangerfield is 34
Blicavs is washed as hell and played ruck and down back most of the night
C.Guthrie is playing VFL these days
Bruhn a 15-20 touch specialist who doesn't have a good enough tank


Yeah, it's pretty awful on paper.

As I said, Geelongs half forwards (who are the best in the league) make up for that by coming up to stoppage but the actual midfield is basically Danger or bust

You had Holmes All Australian. A lot did. It was a bizarre omission. He is a half back/midfielder hybrid, but so is Stewart when he's in the team.

Dangerfield might be 34 and spend less time on ground, but you can't deny that he has been an excellent midfielder this year.

Blicavs you're right is doing his best work in defence now so can be removed from that list. Same with Guthrie who needs to get his body right and is an unknown now.

Your last point about the half forwards has some sense, but you cannot talk about Geelong's midfield without including Mannagh/Miers. One is always supporting stoppage. So that is a part of Geelong's midfield.

I also find it bizarre that we remove wingmen from midfield line ups. I would always include Acres, Gulden and McLuggage as part of their side's midfields. So Dempsey is a part of it. Miers/Holmes often on the other wing.

Dangerfield, Holmes, Stewart, Bowes, Bruhn, Atkins, Miers/Mannagh, Dempsey is not a terrible midfield.

Our mid-year midfield was terrible: Parfitt, Clark, C.Guthrie, Blicavs, Atkins (in way worse form), Dempsey, Miers.

 

[Sttew]

Not sure if you realise but a final was just played yesterday. It’s sort of a big deal and something to discuss.

You're barely discussing the actual game. If you think a post like, "Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals" is adding anything to the discussion then I may have misunderstood.

So where in this thread have you actually discussed last night's game?

 

[Footy Smarts]

Not sure if you realise but a final was just played yesterday. It’s sort of a big deal and something to discuss.

Really? What happened? Who won?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Really? What happened? Who won?

I’m not allowed to talk about it apparently.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You're barely discussing the actual game. If you think a post like, "Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals" is adding anything to the discussion then I may have misunderstood.

So where in this thread have you actually discussed last night's game?

Nothing to discuss really. Port cooked it and Ken got out coached badly like usual.

So now we talk about Geelongs form and future opposition. We are actually in the finals series now man if you didn’t realise.

 

[DanA]

Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals.

Sliding doors, take out Cameron and what does Geelong get with the salary cap and picks that they traded for him? With 3 x 1st round picks and an extra 800k in cap space we probably get something to mitigate the loss.

 

[PhatBoy]

You're barely discussing the actual game. If you think a post like, "Take out Cameron and they wouldn’t haven even made finals" is adding anything to the discussion then I may have misunderstood.

So where in this thread have you actually discussed last night's game?

He was under the bed.

 

[Mr Meow]

Sliding doors, take out Cameron and what does Geelong get with the salary cap and picks that they traded for him? With 3 x 1st round picks and an extra 800k in cap space we probably get something to mitigate the loss.

Holmes has been our best player this season anyway.

Stengle arguably our most elite player by position. No forward pocket in the league is close.

Mannagh, Dempsey and Humphries are far more important than Duncan, Blicavs and Tuohy.

Miers, Close, Jack Henry, Bowes, Atkins and Zuthrie the reliable mid rangers. Important given the loss of Selwood, Hawkins, C.Guthrie, Smith, Menegola over recent years (all big parts of our 2020-2022 teams).

But nah it's all Cameron, who has moments of genius but misses set shots for fun and spends half the game looking like a drunken man trying to retrieve his wallet from the floor. I love Jezza but he is a weird unit to watch play. Brilliant but haphazard.

 

[Mr Meow]

"Put it to bed": Champion Data's major objection to Geelong's midfield reproval

"If I hear anyone talk about that Geelong midfield as their weakness, I will vomit!”

www.sen.com.au

Champion Data’s Daniel Hoyne has shunned the criticism surrounding Geelong’s often questioned midfield mix.

The Cats’ midfield has formally received an array of harsh feedback, particularly while captain Patrick Dangerfield was absent with injury for a good part of 2024.

Since his return, along with the emergence of Max Holmes in the centre of the park, Geelong’s previously labelled ‘weakness’ has become one of the 2022 premiers’ most substantial strengths heading into the latter stages of September.

“Next week, if I hear anyone talk about that Geelong midfield as their weakness, I will vomit,” Hoyne told SEN’s Sportsday.

“Put it to bed. Since Dangerfield has come back in, since Round 16, they are clearly the number one team for points differential at clearance.

“Their ability to put it on the scoreboard is number three, and their ability to defend it, no one is harder to score against at clearance, than Geelong, and their raw clearance differential in terms of how many that you win, and you lose, is top four in the competition.

“So don’t get sucked in, and I do not want to her anything!

“‘The Giants or Brisbane, they can get Geelong at clearance because that’s their weakness’, throw it in the bin. It’s just not.”

While Dangerfield has played an immense role in turning the tables for the Cats’ midfield, Hoyne points out that it’s not just the skipper doing the heavy lifting.

“Dangerfield is the one,” he continued.

“But what (Max) Holmes did on the weekend was unbelievable, even what (Jack) Bowes did, it’s enough. What (Tanner) Bruhn did on the weekend, it’s enough. What (Tom) Atkins did on the weekend, it’s enough. (Shaun) Mannagh then rolls up to stoppage, it’s enough to have impact.

“This midfield is not a weakness; it is actually turned into a strength over the last two months of the season.

“You watch what they did to start the game, and I know this might sound simplistic and you might disagree, you go back and watch those first ten minutes, it reminded me of Brisbane 20 years ago under Leigh Matthews.

“Get the footy and get if froward, and belt it forward, and punch it forward, and handball it forward, and kick it forward. This is the levels.

“Their ground ball game stacks up, they kick it forward the second most of any team in the comp, they generate the fourth most metres by hand of any team in the comp and their distance throughout their kicking, they gain the third most metres by foot of any team in the comp.

“Forward footy, ground ball footy, chaotic footy, finals footy.”

Following their 84-point thrashing over the Power in their Qualifying Final, the Cats will look to maintain their midfield dominance as they take on the winner of the GWS Giants and the Brisbane Lions in the Preliminary Final.

 

[Cleansweep17]

"Put it to bed": Champion Data's major objection to Geelong's midfield reproval

"If I hear anyone talk about that Geelong midfield as their weakness, I will vomit!”

www.sen.com.au

Champion Data’s Daniel Hoyne has shunned the criticism surrounding Geelong’s often questioned midfield mix.

The Cats’ midfield has formally received an array of harsh feedback, particularly while captain Patrick Dangerfield was absent with injury for a good part of 2024.

Since his return, along with the emergence of Max Holmes in the centre of the park, Geelong’s previously labelled ‘weakness’ has become one of the 2022 premiers’ most substantial strengths heading into the latter stages of September.

“Next week, if I hear anyone talk about that Geelong midfield as their weakness, I will vomit,” Hoyne told SEN’s Sportsday.

“Put it to bed. Since Dangerfield has come back in, since Round 16, they are clearly the number one team for points differential at clearance.

“Their ability to put it on the scoreboard is number three, and their ability to defend it, no one is harder to score against at clearance, than Geelong, and their raw clearance differential in terms of how many that you win, and you lose, is top four in the competition.

“So don’t get sucked in, and I do not want to her anything!

“‘The Giants or Brisbane, they can get Geelong at clearance because that’s their weakness’, throw it in the bin. It’s just not.”

While Dangerfield has played an immense role in turning the tables for the Cats’ midfield, Hoyne points out that it’s not just the skipper doing the heavy lifting.

“Dangerfield is the one,” he continued.

“But what (Max) Holmes did on the weekend was unbelievable, even what (Jack) Bowes did, it’s enough. What (Tanner) Bruhn did on the weekend, it’s enough. What (Tom) Atkins did on the weekend, it’s enough. (Shaun) Mannagh then rolls up to stoppage, it’s enough to have impact.

“This midfield is not a weakness; it is actually turned into a strength over the last two months of the season.

“You watch what they did to start the game, and I know this might sound simplistic and you might disagree, you go back and watch those first ten minutes, it reminded me of Brisbane 20 years ago under Leigh Matthews.

“Get the footy and get if froward, and belt it forward, and punch it forward, and handball it forward, and kick it forward. This is the levels.

“Their ground ball game stacks up, they kick it forward the second most of any team in the comp, they generate the fourth most metres by hand of any team in the comp and their distance throughout their kicking, they gain the third most metres by foot of any team in the comp.

“Forward footy, ground ball footy, chaotic footy, finals footy.”

Following their 84-point thrashing over the Power in their Qualifying Final, the Cats will look to maintain their midfield dominance as they take on the winner of the GWS Giants and the Brisbane Lions in the Preliminary Final.

So you like Hoyne now hey?

 

[Mr Meow]

So you like Hoyne now hey?

I posted it for you, because you do have shown adoration for him over the journey. And look, a reply.

Things like score differential from clearance since round 16, that is fact and not coloured by some sort of ambiguous algorithm.