Does our strategy need to change in 2012?

[rustyg70]

Im pretty sure I remember Buckley doing an interview earlier this year and he was asked what he would change from our game plan.
The first thing he said was that we would be using the corridor a lot more.

 

[Ed D]

Every gameplan needs to change every year. If you are standing still then you are moving backwards.

I would like us to use the corridor more in clutch moments, and risk going down there. I don't think we should completely move away from the boundary, remember these players have only learnt how to use the boundary.

I agree with this. We should definitely tweak it, but I would be saying this if we won this year too. The players not being in form/injured let the game plan down, it's very taxing on players and needs guys fully fit to implement it.

Buckley no doubt will be changing things here and there, but overall we're talking about a style of play that only 1 team the entire year could beat. No way should we stand still, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[dcp317]

Just a quick run down of what i think collingwood needs to address for next year and beyond... please dont take this as me trying to incite rage or trolling...i am actually intending this to be constructive as i dearly love the Pies and was really p'eed off about our performance overall in the GF.. some observations/things that need addressing i beleive:

- harry O needs to find the 'killer instinct' in his game..seems far too 'nice' and needs to get ruthless in the vein of a scarlett or taylor..maybe also needs to realise he is a footballer and not there to save the worlds issues...too easy beaten one on one in air and teams know this...
- didak should be looked at for a trade...cant afford another season like this one gone where his quiet games are terrible...still may be worth a decent pick back to SA. however, has been a great servant..
- trade leon to WA now...sorry mate, cant be AA in the home and away and be totally bamboozled in the big games... mentally shot in finals
- wellingham to hit the weights in the pre season...got monstered by bigger bodied mids like selwood, bartel and chapman etc.. passenger far too often.
- dawes to hit the weights for strength work - built like a you know what but seems to not be as strong as what he looks...definite star in future but has gotta develop strength to go with his bulk..
- MUST get a mature, big bodied, inside mid to help Ball in and under the packs...was only a matter of time until selwood, bartel, kelly, chapman etc overwhelmed him in the clearances..
- blair is a one-trick pony and without the press/swarm is found wanting...doesnt provide anything else...3 tackles in ideal conditions for him is not good enough...
-overall game structure needs to be more attacking...get it to the big guys in the forward lineand make teams panic with our quick, direct ball movement..at times we were strangled by our own boundary line movement...
- get macaffer fit cos he is an x factor for us...can take a mark, can play small, can kick goals...defensive forward who can worry defenders...perfect foil for cloke and dawes...

we arent far off again, and we can definitely challenge again cos of the hunger that we should get out of this loss...fresh face and voice and look what happened to the cats when they had a different voice telling them what to do...keep the faith, but some changes must be made to revitalise a tired list...
am keen to hear what people think of my ideas/observations...

 

[PremierPie13]

- MUST get a mature, big bodied, inside mid to help Ball in and under the packs...was only a matter of time until selwood, bartel, kelly, chapman etc overwhelmed him in the clearances...
.

This would be our top priority in trade week I'd think.

 

[PieBeast]

Some good observations ITT, the one I most agree with is a desperate need for someone to give Bally a hand, we got away with it in 2010 only due to our opponents being light on in that department.

I have huge hopes for Josh Thomas, whether he'll be able to step up to the plate next year remains to be seen.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Yeah Bally isn't' getting any younger either. I'd, and imagine the team, would be devastated in the midfield without him. I worried about that all season. My impression is of Buckley being pretty keen on developing a strong midfield I hope we do draft some players in that department.

 

[SpongePie]

Yeah Bally isn't' getting any younger either. I'd, and imagine the team, would be devastated in the midfield without him. I worried about that all season. My impression is of Buckley being pretty keen on developing a strong midfield I hope we do draft some players in that department.

Could Daisy play Balls role? Im guessing probably not the best idea as he is a great runner... but a thought.

Could Blair step it up into that role? Maybe, but he isnt as naturally as good as Ball... but maybe with some mentoring?

 

[lgarth80]

I would imagine Dayne Beams would do anything to be regarded as strong and tough like Luke Ball. And I'd be pairing them together this preseason and say anything Luke does professionally to help his game you do too.

Worked for Licca and BJ. Will work for Beams as well. A great talent, and a player who can clearly lift again after a tough year injury-wise.

 

[Markfs]

Most coaches know what's important in winning games. Mick wanted us to use the boundary line because it was harder for opposition teams to get goals on turnovers.

Some teams take the risk - Geelong always did until recently - of going through the middle and backing the quality of their disposal.

If you go through the middle, it's riskier but if the quality of the disposal is high, it's less risky. If Bucks can keep the quality of the disposal high, then he will want the boys to come down the middle...

Coming down the middle will also depend on having big marking forwards etc etc. All the clubs want to do it but you need the troops ..



in other words, it aint rocket science but it depends on the quality of the team..

 

[Soul_Pie]

Most coaches know what's important in winning games. Mick wanted us to use the boundary line because it was harder for opposition teams to get goals on turnovers.

Some teams take the risk - Geelong always did until recently - of going through the middle and backing the quality of their disposal.

If you go through the middle, it's riskier but if the quality of the disposal is high, it's less risky. If Bucks can keep the quality of the disposal high, then he will want the boys to come down the middle...

Coming down the middle will also depend on having big marking forwards etc etc. All the clubs want to do it but you need the troops ..

Good points.

I also think it's about picking the right times and understanding the spread of players. Watching the movement of players is interesting, no zone can ever cover the entire ground and you have to be able to work through it, you can't just go straight lines any more. Straight lines are predictable and zones will always cover them. Geelong in 2010 had become too predictable in their movement through the centre and we closed in on them and smashed them. Collingwood of 2011 began to get too predictable and safe and we were soundly beaten and struggled in the finals. Tactically we were outmanoeuvred by both Clarkson and Scott.

At certain points in the Grand Final we were that predictable in our movement down the boundary line that Geelong had us covered the length of the ground as we refused to move the ball inboard or switch play. Footy is about adapting to scenarios and we failed to adapt. Geelong's great strength this year was that they became less reliant on their handball and moving the ball straight down the guts. They turned away from the gameplan that had got them so much success and adopted a different route while still retaining the fundamentals. I'm hoping Bucks coming in will serve as a similar reminder that if you stand still in footy then you get overtaken in an instant, and it's fitting that the team that beat us would know that more than anyone given their 08 and 10 seasons.

There only seems to be a couple of guys who look inboard or laterally and think through a situation, Pendlebury being one of them. He is the modern football prototype because he thinks his way through a situation, and doesn't always look straight forward. Now if only we could clone him 21 times.

 

[Berankis]

Need more luke ball types +++++

 

[Copeland]

I'm quite concerned about our marking power in the fwd line, if Cloke goes down we're in big trouble. What young talls do we have coming through to help out. Taz maybe with Brown coming back, Without Cloke Dawes double teamed will get slaughtered. Still got Caff I guess but what young tall guys in the VFL could make an impact nest season.

 

[upnsmoke]

Re: 2012 new year hunger and focus

2011 was the best year in Collingwoods history, and close to being the best season by any club, if they couldn't get it done this year I don't hold much hope for next year unfortunately.

Thats BS and you sort of know it.

Pies compromised finals form for mid-season peak.




I said it before, Minor Premierships are just that... Minor.

Premierships are won on September.. October.



Pies could get 200% percentage, win 22 games and 0 losses.... but if they get "injured" or have "tired", unmotivated or distrupted players going into the finals..... then its MOOT (redundant).



Top 4 finish is all you need... if you win the minor premiership even when you "rested" or "blooded" young players... then it truelly shows how good the team is.


Cats were only 1 win behind the Pies, but rested their "oldies" during second half of the season... its not coincidental they played "fantastic" during the Home and Away season.... but peaked and got better come September and October.

Minor premierships that costs player recovery and experience for young players = Fool's gold.

 

[WillowSF]

Re: 2012 new year hunger and focus

Thats BS and you sort of know it.

Pies compromised finals form for mid-season peak.




I said it before, Minor Premierships are just that... Minor.

Premierships are won on September.. October.



Pies could get 200% percentage, win 22 games and 0 losses.... but if they get "injured" or have "tired", unmotivated or distrupted players going into the finals..... then its MOOT (redundant).



Top 4 finish is all you need... if you win the minor premiership even when you "rested" or "blooded" young players... then it truelly shows how good the team is.


Cats were only 1 win behind the Pies, but rested their "oldies" during second half of the season... its not coincidental they played "fantastic" during the Home and Away season.... but peaked and got better come September and October.

Minor premierships that costs player recovery and experience for young players = Fool's gold.

Do you think the club will send players to Arizona mid season again next year? It seems somewhat counter productive. I fly frequently fom San Francisco to Melbourne and it's a 17 hour flight each way. Getting over jet lag on the way back takes 3-4 days. On the surface it seems more disruptive if anything.

 

[HFF]

Re: 2012 new year hunger and focus

Do you think the club will send players to Arizona mid season again next year? It seems somewhat counter productive. I fly frequently fom San Francisco to Melbourne and it's a 17 hour flight each way. Getting over jet lag on the way back takes 3-4 days. On the surface it seems more disruptive if anything.

If we have any players with niggles, we certainly will.

It worked wonders for Dane Swan who stormed home and won himself a brownlow.

It would have also worked for Nathan Brown but unfortunately he sustained a freak injury walking.

We also sent Jolly and Macaffer but both of them sustained injuries to other parts of the body late in the season, otherwise the exercise certainly seemed to work or at least have a positive effect (within the elements we could control).

 

[sr36]

We need to develop cleaner entry into forward 50. For two years we've essentially just bombed it forward, created contests and pressured opposition teams into making mistakes.

Skilled teams like Hawthorn and Geeling, who didn't give us many turnover goals, showed the flaws in this strategy.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Buckley brought in the press, but was then denied the chance to adjust given he was moved to an 'off-field' role.

Now that the press is pretty much well and truly picked apart, I expect a completely new gameplan next year.

Much like the press was last year.

 

[Pies_101]

YES! Definitely. Teams have worked us out on a number of occasions and the writing was on the wall since the second Essendon game. They cut us up with ease in the first quarter and a half with the amount of injuries they had. For some reason, I believe that game was the loss we had to have. We came out and ran over them in the last quarter and a half to win by 74 points. That hid the fact that we were in serious trouble by then. Had we have lost, We would have reviewed the game and addressed how they cut us up in the first half, but since we won by that margin, that would have been over looked and the story became how invincible we are. By the time that Geelong game came around, we were spent and scraped wins. Guess what? we did the same in the finals.

That Port game the next week was another cover up. Since then, Brisbane, St Kilda pushed us. Fremantle did not have a team to field and Geelong... well smashed us. Were not convincing all finals and I knew that this was not our year.

Another thing is that in the Grand Final, I noticed that the Geelong players made something out of absolutely nothing time and time again. They did not need much space to get rid of the ball. FFS Bartel had so many Collingwood players around him when he gave out the tinniest of handballs that cost us a goal.

The press works quite well, but it is hard to sustain so we have to change our game plan to win next year. I just do not know how we are going to beat Geelong anymore though. They have us completely figured out. The boys try their best and still fall really short to them.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Agree with this (and everything else you said) but this brings up another flaw with going down the corridor. Most of our boys have only known how to go down the boundary, it will be tough for the players to learn when to go down the corridor over a preseason.

The only way I see it is players working on their disposal, and we go down the middle all the time like old Geelong.

 

[Ed D]

I'm quite concerned about our marking power in the fwd line, if Cloke goes down we're in big trouble. What young talls do we have coming through to help out. Taz maybe with Brown coming back, Without Cloke Dawes double teamed will get slaughtered. Still got Caff I guess but what young tall guys in the VFL could make an impact nest season.

Witts is one, Dawes will get fit again, he started the year well and he's only played around 50 games. Keeffe could learn the role. Hopefully Wood improves some more and gets more physical. Macaffer like you said. Young hopefully continues his development too. If Goldsack doesn't get glandular fever again this preseason he could step up. A few more defenders in form could mean players getting moved around.

 

[Quicky]

I'm quite concerned about our marking power in the fwd line, if Cloke goes down we're in big trouble. What young talls do we have coming through to help out. Taz maybe with Brown coming back, Without Cloke Dawes double teamed will get slaughtered. Still got Caff I guess but what young tall guys in the VFL could make an impact nest season.

It's our biggest depth need for sure.

I get the suspicion that in terms of kids in the draft we are looking for pacy outside types this year.

I think at a pinch we can throw Reid or Tarrant forward and play just the two KP's in defence.

But even so I wouldn't mind us drafting in some mature cover in case. Someone like Galea, Sinclair, Eddy or even if we were brave Fev (personally I'd have misgivings).

I think we might try and jostle for a good position in next years draft which is supposed to be quite strong and target a younger KP then.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I have to admit, there's a fair bit of doom and gloom for a premiership winning team as young as ours.

Geelong in 07 was older than we are now, so why is everyone so worried?

 

[sloth6]

Desperately need someone with genuine pace

 

[Quicky]

I have to admit, there's a fair bit of doom and gloom for a premiership winning team as young as ours.

Geelong in 07 was older than we are now, so why is everyone so worried?

People like to dissect where we have gone wrong. Which is understandable after losing a Grand Final.

Although I agree with your sentiment.

 

[upnsmoke]

YES! Definitely. Teams have worked us out on a number of occasions and the writing was on the wall since the second Essendon game. They cut us up with ease in the first quarter and a half with the amount of injuries they had. For some reason, I believe that game was the loss we had to have. We came out and ran over them in the last quarter and a half to win by 74 points. That hid the fact that we were in serious trouble by then. Had we have lost, We would have reviewed the game and addressed how they cut us up in the first half, but since we won by that margin, that would have been over looked and the story became how invincible we are. By the time that Geelong game came around, we were spent and scraped wins. Guess what? we did the same in the finals.

That Port game the next week was another cover up. Since then, Brisbane, St Kilda pushed us. Fremantle did not have a team to field and Geelong... well smashed us. Were not convincing all finals and I knew that this was not our year.

Another thing is that in the Grand Final, I noticed that the Geelong players made something out of absolutely nothing time and time again. They did not need much space to get rid of the ball. FFS Bartel had so many Collingwood players around him when he gave out the tinniest of handballs that cost us a goal.

The press works quite well, but it is hard to sustain so we have to change our game plan to win next year. I just do not know how we are going to beat Geelong anymore though. They have us completely figured out. The boys try their best and still fall really short to them.

The Bombers game, they were a bit "flukey" with the 60m+ goals, there were a couple of LONG bombs that bounced into the goals.... nonetheless they PUMPED the Pies in the first quarter by winning the clearances or rebounding from the half back with LONG kicks.

The Press is only effective when the other team's tactic involves handballing the ball out of the defensive line or kicking around the midfield... Although Hawks did well mainly because their midfield was as good if not better than the Pies.

Another game that I think was an eye openner was the Swans game.
Their were about 3-4 games all year that could of been easily losses for the Pies but the 4th quarter factor kicked in.... this is highly due to the Pies off season training at Arizona I think.... but as the season progressed especially near finals, with injuries and suspensions.... against a top side like Cats who have fresher bodies.... not gonna work... and it didnt.