Autopsy Dogs 🐕 pantsed by injury depleted Cats 🐱 97-75

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doggies ftw said:
It’s pretty obvious not many of our supporters had watched TOB at hawks, apparently not our recruitment team either.

He was horrible, like genuinely quite possibly the worst 29 yo still on a list in the AFL, he has never fired a shot. ******* crab, has no ability, no strengths whatsoever
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It was like when everyone in the world knew Trengove couldnt play key forward to save his life except for our recruiters and coaches
 
Dogs_r_barking said:
Disappointing, not much more to add that hasn’t already been said, but four goals from four free kicks in their forward line in the first half, set up their win. Only one was there that I could see.

I thought we played well, won most of the stats, but our accuracy in front of goal killed us yet again, then we lost Richards, and our structure suffered, and Geelong got their tails up.

Caleb was good, Bont playing under an injury, Libba, losing Richards after losing JJ in our backline really impacted our defensive structure.

Other thoughts: Why did we get scheduled to play the Premiers after playing in Darwin the week before? Umpiring influenced by the media getting stuck into us all week, and that first half especially was one sided in Geelong’s favour. The way we have been tossed around playing all over Australia, including playing a home team in gather round, we are up against it more than any other team. It makes me feel that the old VFL clique really wants to put us back in our box.
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I agree with this assessment of our schedule and I thought exactly the same thing about umps listening to media trumping up a show news day story on Weightman playing for free kicks.

However, this highlights another thing. Weak leadership at the club. We need people who will fight for these things. We need some manipulative and menacing people who will ensure subtle but strong consequences to stop media and afl treating us like Cinderella.
 
doggies ftw said:
Gardner was genuinely terrible, man the free ride this bloke gets. If Keath played half as bad as Gardner does, weekly, he’d get ******* destroyed on here. What is it with this bloke that we literally judge him on how s**t he’s been, he’s got a genuine spell on our supporters at this point, like the s**t he gets away with is unbelievable he is terrible
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Why was Gardner given a three year deal to begin with? When I saw that on the Dogs site earlier in the year, I just shook my head. I was at the Richmond game earlier in the year, had Jones & Bruce as the defensive keys with Keath intercepting. Our defence looked formidable. If injury concerns are keeping Bruce out then the club needs to say so. Saw Gardner play against Carlton, he seemed to have no confidence in his kicking at all.
 
Oliver Gigacz said:
If you expand it to include the Adelaide game as well (last 3 weeks)...

WB
89 shots
32 goals
40 kicked behinds
17 no scores
36% accuracy
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Fcuk me that's a horrendous statistic and indictment on our kicking for goal
Oliver Gigacz said:
As always…

Expected Score / Actual Score
WB: 89 / 75 (-14)
GE: 88 / 97 (+9)

Expected Margin / Actual Margin: +1 / -22


Shots At Goal
WB: 29 (34%)
GE: 24 (63%)

Scoring Profile (Western Bulldogs / Geelong)
Set Shot: 6.8 / 9.4
Snap: 1.0 / 4.1
On Run: 3.4 / 1.0
Mark Play On: 0.2 / 1.0
Ground Kick: 0.0 / 0.0

0M-15M: 1.0 / 2.1
15M-30M: 2.2 / 4.0
31M-40M: 3.3 / 6.3
41M-50M: 2.3 / 3.1
51M+: 2.6 / 0.0

Scores Directly From FK/50MP: 1.1 / 4.0
Scores In Time-On: 3.4 / 6.2
Scores Sourced From D50: 1.0 / 1.2



Unforced Turnovers By Player
3 - Baker
2 - B. Smith
1 - Dale, Duryea, Gardner, Liberatore, Macrae, O’Donnell, Richards, Treloar, Ugle-Hagen, Weightman,


Turnovers Punished By Goals
2 - Liberatore, Richrads
1 - Bontempelli, Daniel, Gardner, L. Jones, O’Brien, B. Smith



Score Sources
Scores Sourced From Stoppages: 5.7 / 5.1
Scores Sourced From Turnovers: 4.8 / 10.5
Scores Sourced From Kick-Ins: 1.0 / 0.0
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Oliver Gigacz said:
Baker, B. Smith, Williams and Richards combined for 47 kicks, just 17 of them were effective (36%)...

Effective Kicks
Baker - 6 / 17 (35%)
B. Smith - 4 / 14 (29%)
Williams - 4 / 9 (44%)
Richards - 3 / 7 (43%)
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I've obviously cherry picked your stats OG but really the solution is as obvious as the problem. I'm sure this has been stated many times through this thread.

Improve kicking = improve performance and result. It's fcuking simple.

Field kicking and set shot kicking - both.

Our defence is getting hung out to dry by opposition scores from our turnovers, a significant number being attributable to poor kicking and poor decision making, most of which is coming from the half back and midfield lines. They have little hope of defending it.

Everybody missed set shots last night, everybody, not just the forwards. Almost everybody turned it over and 50% of those that cost goals came from 3 of our better kicks in Bont, Libba and Daniel.

And the lack of scoreboard pressure being applied by our terrible conversion deflates us and keeps the opposition in it.

As infuriating as this result is, it's not that different to a few of our other recent losses.

A top 4 finish I find increasing irrelevant. The most relevant and impactful thing we can do between now and September (which we make Dog willing) is to get close to or better than a 55% conversion rate and improve our field kicking (which will go a long way to reducing opposition scores from turnover) in the second half of the year. I don't think it really matters that much where we finish if we can do that. It will generate its own momentum.

We seem to be mostly equal or better in the other stats. Kicking efficiency in general play and for goal is the one that alludes us ..... very obviously.
 
There's an issue with JUH's goalkicking when he seems to have to kick right kn his distance (50m). He's capable of kicking them, but seems to shank them like he seems to think that he has to kick them 55m or 60m. Mentally I think he needs to be told that it's not the end of the world if the shots fall short on the goalline. Better that then them missing by a mile by coming off the side of the boot.
 
Don’t get the pile on in individuals our issues are wider spread than that. Naughton back, TOB/Gardner out, McNiel out etc aren’t fixing them.

We have a poorly structured team currently. We identified we were too tall in round 1-2 with 4 KPFs so what do we do the last few rounds? We bring another tall in JOD in to play forward, then switch him to the backline to play 4 KPDs there. We have messed with the structure that was working.

We lost run from the backline in JJ and didn’t put Williams back or bring it a Cleary or VDM we put a tall there and brought a small forward in.

Rather than identify we are too tall we drop McNiel to sub for treloar, keep JOD in.

Selection has always been an issue, Beveridge tries to constantly be too clever for himself. (Don’t give me it’s a selection committee crap, a senior coach has final say).

We have had an inability to connect with our forward line for so long, we constantly bemoan that we never kick to the forwards advantage but rather kick to the defenders side. Our entries lately have been shallow allowing easy and dangerous transition back the other way. Or they have been wide and deep making them easy to defend or if we do win the ball providing a difficult shot at goal. Then we have our goal kicking which has always been atrocious and clearly not enough attention is given to it as guys actually regress in their goal kicking ability with this team.

We have a major issue in depth, our list is unbalanced, we lack speed and good ball use on our list. We have guys who have shown they are not capable as our next in line to come in. Our VFL team is not performing because of the lack of talent below our 22.

This team has always been a team with some mental weaknesses. Games we should win we don’t turn up we don’t bring the same effort. Against some teams we appear to have lost the game before even stepping on the field. We don’t have enough on field leaders to stand up and do the defensive things when things are going badly.

I don’t think players know their roles well enough. Occasionally you will have players fly for the same ball but for us it happens constantly especially in defence leaving opposition down to stroll into goal. Players need to know their role, know they can’t impact and trust their other defenders to impact that contest. Then forward we have our smalls constantly flying against our talls or running their opponent into the talls space. Weightman Jones etc need to know their role is to crumb hit the contest at speed not get there and get in the way.

Then we have Lobb brought in to support Naughton and chop out in the ruck playing wing to free up space for Naughton and JUH or get behind the ball. Why recruit him if he isn’t going to play forward? But then we have JOD play forward so we achieve nothing having him up the ground.

Our forward line should have Naughton as the highest tall forward hitting the wings to help with transition and prevent us being stuck in the backline. JUH should be the mobile tall in the forward half and especially inside 50 using his leading lanes. Lobb should be the deepest tall. Both Naughton and JUH have the ability to work back towards goal from higher and also provide frontal pressure.

Tactically we have issues, we don’t ever attempt the take the oppositions strength away from them. Rolling an extra to the stoppages and allowing Stewart to be loose? Our mids should have been able to beat the cats mids without an extra otherwise they are overpaid and not performing. We never attempt to shut down the opposition best mid or out time into them. Stoppages we never get the set up right so many times we allow clean frontal exits. We constantly have smalls as the outlet kick after the initial exit from defensive 50. We rarely do like for like changes to maintain structure and roles.
 
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I dont understand how unlike any other AFL position or any other sport, AFL forwards are too rarely penalised for poor kicking.

If a defender turns the ball over too often they are dropped, they are deemed poor. If a striker cant find the goals they are dropped, theyre not doing their job

Yet in AFL we say, " oh, he played well, looked really good, marked well, just didnt convert". No! he didnt play well, he didnt do his job as a forward and undid the good work up the ground to give him the ball. and if it happens with any regularity he should be dropped or moved (e.g. Naughton).

I believe its this attitude or narrative that helps perpetuate poor goal kicking relative to field kicking. Rather than too much pressure on the kick, i believe their should be more. then you will be left with specialists, who can convert under pressure with their career depending on it.

last night we werent unlucky because we played well but didnt kick straight. we didnt play well because we kicked poorly. and its something that needs to be fixed not something that turns around naturally. not when its a long term pattern.
 
Teams must now know that if you increase the physical heat - our players will fold. They become timid and the bullying (not a bad thing at all in footy) forces them to lose their confidence.

The deflation from missing easy shots would suck the life out of most teams but there is more concern here than that. This will come if we are ruthless in all aspects of the game.

Some players step up - Scott was a aging light in the fourth but most others drain a gear when they should want it to be this way and go harder. This is part of the Collingwood success - they want the heat. Roarke Smith is also a bottom third player until the heat is in when he excels. He has been injured.

We also select players without this in mind. Other than say Libba and maybe Duryea - who is a hard arse in our club? I know he has faults but West would have thrived in that tough shit. He has to play. In a game like that if you are the opposition coach would you want McNeil or West?

Gardner has improved and must have speed we don’t see but he is a very long way behind Keith - not just in defence but in getting a couple of important intercept marks. If you watch the VFL - Keath look that much better than anyone out there it is ridiculous.

SOSOD looks to have enormous potential but give the kid a break - he should be picked a couple of games and then let him develop in the VFL. Problem is who would replace him that is able to do a reliable role . Hannan consistently fails, Khamis is good but can’t sustain it. SOSOD did look the best there before promoted - even though playing defence.

Now Bruce is back let’s play him as a swing man. The guy is a star and we keep messing him around. Very few players in the league can play genuine FF, let alone KPP and cover the ground he does. Maybe only Blicsavs? Bruce can rotate off forwards - kicked 50+ multiple times and cover defence - most teams would kill for this player. To be fair - has been injured but should be rushed back.

We have been chasing the third tall defender role for years. I have two problems with TOD - first he is nearly finished his career (ie now upside) and has not shown enough to even hold a position in a weakened Hawthorn and yet we pick him. Secondly, I bet he does fancy stuff at training but talent has never been his issue. It is above the shoulders - he doesn’t have a defensive mindset or critical calm under pressure and when he makes a mistake he doesn’t fight to impact the contest just jogs and watches. Raak has that mindset but is not ready (should be defence) - and Buss are not developed enough. To me go smaller and use Crozier - he will mark and impact the game. He is a much better player. Eventually Cleary will take that role and is not far way - is very calm under pressure. If Bruce (or SOSOD) is playing forward and rotating back then we don’t need another. He was not needed for a big player last night and was again both ineffective.
 
wian said:
McNeil should never lace the boots up again for this team. I know there were many culprits but that missed shot 10m out was absolutely disgusting and an embarrassment for the fans supporting this club .

Killed any chance of us pinching the game.

Pathetic would be an understatement
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I am a McNeil fan but the last few weeks have completely shaken my faith. I kept expecting the possessions to come but he has been in our system long enough to have improved this area but has not.
The goal miss last night was terrible but what has swayed me is his panic when he gets the ball, no composure, no assessment of options just a blind panic to handball to the closest teammate even if that teammate is right next to him and under pressure so that the responsibility is not his. A long stint in the vfl to develop confidence
 
I just can’t believe that there are players on Geelong’s list that have never played in a loss against us and there are players on our list that have never beaten them. It’s beyond comprehension of how it’s even possible.

Premiership winning, best & fairest, club champion and one of the best ever to play for the club, Tom Liberatore is now 0-11 against them. It’s ****ing sickening.

The mental stranglehold they have over this club that refuses to stand up to itself far too often is demoralising. I left a few minutes early as I’d had enough, even though I wanted to leave earlier. This is coming from someone who stayed all the way through a 20 goal loss to the eagles in Perth and a 15-goal turnaround to St Kilda when we were up 10 goals at half time and kicked the first of the 3rd quarter.

That is the 2nd game I’ve been to that I’ve left even remotely before the final siren, but it’s not who we lost to, it’s how. It’s not like we lost to a piss poor club, Geelong are a good side and defending premiers. It wasn’t their VFL side. But there was no excuses to not beating the 22/23 they put out last night. I was actually embarrassed at having to leave early, because it was an embarrassing performance from a club that should be doing so much more.

On one hand it’s a reality check that we are miles off it, but on the other there is a million arguments that the talent we have can turn it around very quickly. Port are on an absolute roll and we usually have their measure at home, but after last night I don’t even feel like going to the game. That’s an indictment on the club. A hugely professional team would have got it done the last 2 weeks and right now we’d be sitting comfortably in 3rd, planning the weeks ahead to chase down 1st & 2nd. But here we are, possibly going to be sitting below Essendon after round 12 in a fragile position in the bottom half of the 8, with a crap percentage and multiple teams below is that could overtake with the right results. I just can’t get my head around that.

But hey, it’s just footy, right? :rolleyes:
 
NBates said:
I agree with this assessment of our schedule and I thought exactly the same thing about umps listening to media trumping up a show news day story on Weightman playing for free kicks.

However, this highlights another thing. Weak leadership at the club. We need people who will fight for these things. We need some manipulative and menacing people who will ensure subtle but strong consequences to stop media and afl treating us like Cinderella.
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I totally agree, we seem to meekly accept anything the AFL dished up. I miss Gordon, because he rattled the chains, pushed for equality in the draw and won a few concession, we seem to have gone backwards, I mean our draw is harder than not just Geelong’s but most of the teams in the eight from last year.

We need more fixture integrity.
 
These losses hurt because we know what this team can do. The wins against Lions, Freo and Crows were all great wins and those teams have all seen good runs of forms. When we're on as a team I think we are one of the best. The problem is that if we aren't on we make the stupidest turnovers and decisions. How many times did we get the ball out of a stoppage and turn it over straight away... It's ridiculous, I love Baz but his disposal is shocking when his isn't firing.

The forward line Naughton, JUH, Weightman and Jones that is one of the best young forward lineups in the league but they are all bunched up and jumping at the same ball. It's not rocket science they just aren't being coached correctly. Our i50s have been trash lately but I think that's fixable. We should have beat the Suns and the Cats we played better than them but we are just not coached well. JoD looks promising but no way you play him against Geelong when we are already so tall. Cleary deserves a crack. It feels like there is some real easy solutions that won't happen. Playing our players in the right position would be a good start. Gardner I'm sorry but please don't start him again Keath is better by a mile.
 
All teams need their mongrels. They may or may not be dickheads but they need an uncompromising ruthlessness that separates them from other AFL players. Even in this sanitised era there is still a place for them. We’ve had them in the past Callan Ward, Clay Smith, Liam Picken, Mathew Boyd, Luke Dahlhaus off the top of my head. We have Liam Jones and Tom Libratore who just want to win everything in sight. Mick Malthouse’s teams, always encouraged them from Footscray to WCE to Collingwood. What we’d give for a Jai Newcome? or Todd Viney or Clayton Oliver? Or Matt Rowell? Those players who walk over broken glass to win the footy. Watching Cody play for free kicks last week showed we don’t respect the culture of the players above, who should be revered in the players own peer groups. Joel Selwood willed his team to a premiership last season.
 

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Autopsy Dogs 🐕 pantsed by injury depleted Cats 🐱 97-75

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