Don Dale Centre videos on 4 corners: treatment of children in custody (Northern Territory)

[Watchyourwaite]

I understood them very well.

Then why did you scold me for 'blaming 4corners'?
Why did you apologise for wanting good things to come out of a royal commission?

Go back and actually read my posts. Because you don't actually know what you're talking about, or what I'm saying.


I mean, come on. NAAJA. You could even take a second to google it and you'd know. It was even in the damn 4corners episode. How do you not know??

 

[GreyCrow]

Bday coming up, or xmas coming up? No problem, steal a car and go hooning.
Get locked up for a couple of months and get fed better and treated better than you do on the outside. Get a cake, get people singing happy bday to you.

.

2 hots and a cot used to be the saying.

 

[GreyCrow]

Why have a commission into treatment of children in custody?

Why not treat the disease? i.e. massively dysfunctional Indigenous communities.

Looking at this issue arse backwards IMO.

Because its racist to blame the communities

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Why have a commission into treatment of children in custody?

Why not treat the disease? i.e. massively dysfunctional Indigenous communities.

Looking at this issue arse backwards IMO.

There is a massive push around the country for justice reinvestment because it's obvious that incarceration (particularly of young people, but also of adults) doesn't actually work very well. A big part of that is addressing some of the underlying concerns regarding the home life that these young people come from and using an early intervention model to stop them from coming in contact with the Juvenile Justice system at all. And due to the over-representation of Indigenous people in custody, I agree that a lot of that reinvestment needs to be in Aboriginal communities.

BUT ... in no way does that excuse or justify the behaviour of the Don Dale staff that we saw in the 4 Corners report. I'm not convinced that a Royal Comission is the best response either, but there definitely does need to be action taken about the treatment of young people in custody. What is likely to happen is that it will bring out into the open many more stories of abuse within the NT Juvenile Justice system that otherwise wouldn't have been heard (due to fear, intimidation, cover-ups and outright lies), similar to what has happened in the one dealing with institutional child sexual abuse. Tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

But don't conflate the two very separate issues of what leads young people to incarceration and the treatment of those young people whilst in custody. It's not an either/or situation and pretending that it is makes you sound ignorant (which I'm not saying you actually are).

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

So you think that the across the board condemnation of the acts is just a front, that really they agree and would happily dish out the same treatment?

It's all a conspiracy to make your opinion look isolated?

I'm not saying they agree with it, I'm just saying they don't truly care about it. They only care about it insofar as they need to comment and in some cases act on it.

They have to be seen and heard to be saying and doing the right things.

I reckon a lot of them see it as an annoyance more than anything, they'd rather it was kept out of sight out of mind.

 

[campbell]

I mean, it's being called abuse, that the teens had to eat food with their hands.
Who the hell wrote the rules for at risk? Because it states they're not to be given any utensils, because they could attempt self-harm with them. Even plastic spoons can be a weapon.

And considering a lot of of the food given would have been apples, muesli bars, bananas, sandwiches. Is it really 'barbarism', 'inhumanity', 'child abuse' and 'torture' that they ate with their bare hands?


And the stripping of at risk is also following the procedure that someone being paid lots of money, wrote up.
All clothing must be removed to make sure they are not hiding anything that they can harm themselves or others with.
All clothing must also be removed, and replaced with special at risk stuff, so that they won't be able to choke or hang themselves.


The guards in most of the clips seem to be doing exactly as they are supposed to do.
But the rich bastard who wrote up the guidelines is untouched.

I'd love for some actual investigative journalism into the entire thing. Instead of this easy sensationalist piece.

Are you for real.

 

[campbell]

Why have a commission into treatment of children in custody?

Why not treat the disease? i.e. massively dysfunctional Indigenous communities.

Looking at this issue arse backwards IMO.

Because the treatment of any incarcerated person has strict guidelines in other states. It appears it does not in the NT.

This is a very separate issue to why the offender became incarcerated in the first place.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Are you for real.

Yes.

 

[boondy]

Did anyone watch 4 corners last night? I missed it and am just watching a snippet from the repeat. Wow, what the fk?

Guards gassing kids with tear gas, laughing saying they're going to "pulverise the little fkrs" - etc.

It should be noted that the kids are aboriginal. I just can't believe this shit is still going on here.

Australia has some great things about it but my god it has elements of being the most backwater, redneck country in the developed world.

I'm appalled by the racist bogan mentality you see guarding aboriginal kids in custody and refugees.

Have you ever seen anyone tear gassed . It is Hilarious . Your snot clears out your eyes water and later you need to wash it off your sweat . When I was in basic training in the army as an 18 year old and many of us were 17 we were taken in a room with tear gas and the corporal took our masks off us and kicked it around the floor then we had to find it and clear the mask and deal with the stuff . Guess what it didnt kill us and in fact we laughed our guts out at each other and it was the funniest best time i had in the army . the only vision I saw of the guards threatening to use the tear gas they were laughing , yes , because the stuff works . The kid they were gonna use it on waws running around bashing stuff with a 2 x2 lump of wood . I dont have a problem with the tear gas and I dont have a problem with people laughing about it and anyone carrying a lump of wood can be called whatever names you like because he is a little spopilt brat (politely) . I dont mind cloth bags over a filthy mouthed kids head that spits iether . Then again I realise I am a minority and my opinion means little . If these kids were in an asian country they wouldnt behave like that .

 

[nicky]

Have you ever seen anyone tear gassed . It is Hilarious . Your snot clears out your eyes water and later you need to wash it off your sweat . When I was in basic training in the army as an 18 year old and many of us were 17 we were taken in a room with tear gas and the corporal took our masks off us and kicked it around the floor then we had to find it and clear the mask and deal with the stuff . Guess what it didnt kill us and in fact we laughed our guts out at each other and it was the funniest best time i had in the army . the only vision I saw of the guards threatening to use the tear gas they were laughing , yes , because the stuff works . The kid they were gonna use it on waws running around bashing stuff with a 2 x2 lump of wood . I dont have a problem with the tear gas and I dont have a problem with people laughing about it and anyone carrying a lump of wood can be called whatever names you like because he is a little spopilt brat (politely) . I dont mind cloth bags over a filthy mouthed kids head that spits iether . Then again I realise I am a minority and my opinion means little . If these kids were in an asian country they wouldnt behave like that .

I have seen those kids tear gassed on that abc report and it looked horrific, not hilarious.

I don't think these kids are spoilt. I watched the 7.30 report on Dylan Voller and his mum and sister inferred that something happened to him which changed the course of his life. Speculating here but it appeared as though they were implying that he was sexually abused by someone in authority, hence his distrust of people in authority.

In this day and age society has moved on from corporal punishment on children. So in this context, yes your opinion is definitely in the minority. You're entitled to it though.

 

[CM86]

we were taken in a room with tear gas and the corporal took our masks off us and kicked it around the floor then we had to find it and clear the mask and deal with the stuff . Guess what it didnt kill us and in fact we laughed our guts out at each other and it was the funniest best time i had in the army . the only vision I saw of the guards threatening to use the tear gas they were laughing , yes , because the stuff works . The kid they were gonna use it on waws running around bashing stuff with a 2 x2 lump of wood . I dont have a problem with the tear gas and I dont have a problem with people laughing about it and anyone carrying a lump of wood can be called whatever names you like because he is a little spopilt brat (politely) . I dont mind cloth bags over a filthy mouthed kids head that spits iether . Then again I realise I am a minority and my opinion means little . If these kids were in an asian country they wouldnt behave like that .

You must have had a pretty terrible experience in the army...

 

[Pie eyed]

I don't know what hope for the future means. Sounds like a facebook status.

How much do you know about this victim/criminal/child/young adult?
First offense. So it was his first charge? He has never been picked up by police before and taken home, rather than pressing charges?
Where were his parents?
Why is there no anger towards the parents of these kids?
The parents who never visited their children?


I stole a car when I was a teen, and I never went to gaol.
I know that if my circumstances (Family, economic situation, history) had been different, I definitely would have been arrested and charged.

Who cares?
Are you trying to limit the disgust people feel for his treatment?
Take what Maggie says for what it is.
No-one would ever do anything about anything if they all had your approach.

 

[boondy]

I have seen those kids tear gassed on that abc report and it looked horrific, not hilarious.

I don't think these kids are spoilt. I watched the 7.30 report on Dylan Voller and his mum and sister inferred that something happened to him which changed the course of his life. Speculating here but it appeared as though they were implying that he was sexually abused by someone in authority, hence his distrust of people in authority.

In this day and age society has moved on from corporal punishment on children. So in this context, yes your opinion is definitely in the minority. You're entitled to it though.

You saw . So you know what you are talking about . Well you must be right then.
Well the army better stop using corporal punishment in its basic training if tear gas is actually corporal punishment . Wow I must have been so psychologically mistreated in the army. As for sexual abuse there is no excuse anywhere whether it is in the aboriginal villages at the hands of their own elders or anywhere . That is a separate issue

 

[nicky]

You saw . So you know what you are talking about . Well you must be right then.
Well the army better stop using corporal punishment in its basic training if tear gas is actually corporal punishment . Wow I must have been so psychologically mistreated in the army. As for sexual abuse there is no excuse anywhere whether it is in the aboriginal villages at the hands of their own elders or anywhere . That is a separate issue

Yeah it is unacceptable. The reason i posted it is because you were calling the kids spoilt aggressive brats. I was trying to provide insight into why the kid had a problem with authority and why the guards should be trained to handle the situation more constructively rather than escalating it.

 

[boondy]

Yeah it is unacceptable. The reason i posted it is because you were calling the kids spoilt aggressive brats. I was trying to provide insight into why the kid had a problem with authority and why the guards should be trained to handle the situation more constructively rather than escalating it.

well the kids in prison bash old ladies with star pickets and murder people for no good reason this is why they are in these places so when they run around with a 2x2 piece of wood then get tear gassed and a man with a camera an an agenda films it and do gooders like yourself watch these programs then yes they are not spoilt little brats they are victims of bad parenting , autonomous upbringing . Left to themselves and they hang around other delinquents that have no feeling for humanity and they have no respect etc etc but no one makes a film of them bashing old ladies with star pickets and spitting on people in the streets or bricking a poor bus driver so he loses an eye etc etc . No One offers a solution to this Elephant in the room .

 

[nicky]

well the kids in prison bash old ladies with star pickets and murder people for no good reason this is why they are in these places so when they run around with a 2x2 piece of wood then get tear gassed and a man with a camera an an agenda films it and do gooders like yourself watch these programs then yes they are not spoilt little brats they are victims of bad parenting . left to themselves and they hang around other delinquents that have no feeling for humanity and they have no respect etc etc but no one makes a film of them bashing old ladies with star pickets and spitting on people in the streets or bricking a poor bus driver so he loses an eye etc etc .

It looks as though the boy in question has a dedicated and loving family. His mother seemed to have her shit together. They implied things went a wry for him after an incident with an authority figure.

You're right in expressing concern over their victims and the situation certainly needs to be addressed. The answer isn't just let them loose to do what they want. However neither is locking them up and abusing them. It's a complex situation which requires an intelligent approach. I think the approach should be driven my rehabilitation so the guards need a different skill set to the current ones who are experts in cage fighting and more funding should be put towards good psychological help and education.

 

[boondy]

It looks as though the boy in question has a dedicated and loving family. His mother seemed to have her shit together. They implied things went a wry for him after an incident with an authority figure.

You're right in expressing concern over their victims and the situation certainly needs to be addressed. The answer isn't just let them loose to do what they want. However neither is locking them up and abusing them. It's a complex situation which requires an intelligent approach. I think the approach should be driven my rehabilitation so the guards need a different skill set to the current ones who are experts in cage fighting and more funding should be put towards good psychological help and education.

Guards are guards . The problem is somewhere else its not in these detention centres . You cant have violent sociopathic kids walking around going to an AA type meeting once a week . You dont know what they are in there for because they are juvenile but you can guarantee they are pretty bad when they have to be locked up and you dont want to bump into a gang of them in the street Nicky .

 

[Gough]

Sometimes when kids are at their least lovable, they need the most love.

 

[kwikfix]

Sometimes when kids are at their least lovable, they need the most love.

That's the problem Gough, a lot of these kids have never known love, have no understanding of love, they have grown up with a alcohol-fuelled violent life from birth. How do you break the cycle? I have NFI.

 

[skilts]

Left to themselves and they hang around other delinquents that have no feeling for humanity and they have no respect etc etc but no one makes a film of them bashing old ladies with star pickets and spitting on people in the streets or bricking a poor bus driver so he loses an eye etc etc . No One offers a solution to this Elephant in the room .

Congratulations on never having read a Murdoch newspaper. You have risen in my estimation.

 

[boondy]

Congratulations on never having read a Murdoch newspaper. You have risen in my estimation.

The odd crime is reported and you cant mention the race in a paper whilst 99. 99999% are ignored and like I said its not on a film or tv show . I worked all hours doing charter work around casinos and the bashings and spitting and thieving . Vandalism, rockthrowing ,crimes i seen you would have no idea . I dont need a newspaper or a tv show mate.

 

[skilts]

The odd crime is reported and you cant mention the race in a paper whilst 99. 99999% are ignored and like I said its not on a film or tv show . I worked all hours doing charter work around casinos and the bashings and spitting and thieving . Vandalism, rockthrowing ,crimes i seen you would have no idea . I dont need a newspaper or a tv show mate.

A man of the world, from West Australia no less. I'm impressed.

 

[boondy]

A man of the world, from West Australia no less. I'm impressed.

You dont have to idolize me . I am an ordinary man

 

[skilts]

You dont have to idolize me . I am an ordinary man

Very ordinary.

 

[Lakeside Swan]

Any complaining about the use of tear gas and spit masks is ridiculous. These are bad kids and the safety of the staff is the priority. I wonder if those complaining about is would be happy to have Hep C infected shit thrown at them and prisoners with Hep C spitting on them? If they aren't then maybe they can give us another solution? Before you even mention it, speaking to them politely and trying to reason with them can be excluded from the debate.

I was however concerned by a few scenes in the footage that showed the prisoners being thrown onto their beds. This was dangerous, they could have hit their heads on the wall or floor. I suspect was a result of the staff letting their emotions get the better of them.