Strategy Draft assistance 2023 [Twomey: NMFC get #19 in 2023, x2 end of 1st rd picks in 2024, and x2 extra rookie list spots in 2024; no Sanders/#11]

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More whinging


Rival recruiters fuming over North’s push for top draft prospect​


Enraged rival recruiters are railing against North Melbourne’s wish to gain pre-draft access to outstanding prospect Ryley Sanders, with some clubs putting together submissions to try to prevent the move.

Anger in recruiting circles has only increased since Money Talks revealed on July 12 that the Kangaroos were exploring options to gain access to potential top-10 draftee Sanders, who won the Larke Medal as the best player at last month’s AFL under-18 championships.

Ryley Sanders, one of this year’s brightest draft prospects, is in North Melbourne’s sights.

Ryley Sanders, one of this year’s brightest draft prospects, is in North Melbourne’s sights.Credit: AFL Photos

Melbourne-based Tasmanian midfielder Sanders received his certificate of Aboriginality in the past couple of months, joining his father Adam with that status, after a lengthy process. He is attending Melbourne Grammar on a First Nations bursary scholarship.

Is [PLAYERCARD]Ben McKay[/PLAYERCARD] Essendon-bound?

Is Ben McKay Essendon-bound?Credit: AFL Photos

Recruiters are not challenging the authenticity of Sanders’ heritage, but would prefer to see North Melbourne work themselves out of trouble.

Melbourne’s strategy of trading second-round picks for mature footballers who could support their first-round draftees – including Ed Langdon, Ben Brown, Brodie Grundy, Jake Melksham, Michael Hibberd, Sam Frost and Bernie Vince – is viewed as a blueprint from the bottom of the ladder that the Roos should follow.

North applied to the AFL to include Sanders in their NGA program and that request is pending, even though he is certain to be taken inside the first 40 picks, which would mean they could not match an opposition bid on him.

However, they have spoken informally with the league about the possibility of the teenager being part of a special assistance package designed to resurrect their fortunes under coach Alastair Clarkson. No decision will be made until, first, the Kangaroos officially apply for help, then, second, the AFL Commission meeting in grand final week.


But industry sources, who did not want to be named in order to be able to speak freely, told Money Talks that North’s push to gain access to Sanders is by no means a done deal.

Clubs are also on guard about restricted free-agent defender Ben McKay’s expected departure from North, potentially to Essendon, hoping the AFL will not beef up the compensation to further dilute the top of the draft. The Roos are on a 17-match losing streak amid a horror stretch where they have won nine of their past 78 games, dating back to round three, 2020.

Among the issues recruiters have with North Melbourne’s hope to gain access to Sanders is that he and fellow Tasmanians, and AFL Academy members, Colby McKercher and Jack Callinan trained with Collingwood – not the Kangaroos – in the pre-season.

Tasmanian prospects, including Sanders, trained with North in previous years.

Another quirk is the Roos are the sole club – the Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast, Sydney and Greater Western Sydney have a separate academy system – without any NGA-approved prospects on the list the AFL sent to clubs in late July, which The Age has seen, whereas most others have double-digit numbers of players.

North’s first and second-round picks on 2023 list​

Jack Mahony, Jaidyn Stephenson, Harry Sheezel, Aidan Corr, George Wardlaw, Jack Ziebell, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Ben Cunnington, Luke McDonald, Jy Simpkin, Darcy Tucker, Liam Shiels, Dan Howe, Aiden Bonar, Griffin Logue, Callum Coleman-Jones, Ben McKay, Tom Powell, Paul Curtis, Tarryn Thomas, Miller Bergman, Will Phillips, Charlie Comben, Josh Goater, Brayden George, Charlie Lazzaro, Phoenix Spicer, Flynn Perez.

Talent scouts who spoke to this masthead on the condition of anonymity because they were discussing an opposition club also pointed out the Roos had a league-high 28 players who were first or second-round draftees.

North received special assistance from the AFL last year in the form of future second- and third-round picks, which they had to trade. They used those selections to bring in Fremantle pair Griffin Logue and Darcy Tucker, and were also allowed to have two extra rookie-list spots.

Opinions differ in recruiting ranks on whether the Kangaroos should receive more help.

Some are comfortable with them benefiting from further assistance, as long as it does not include Sanders, while others would prefer they were given increased soft-cap spending specifically to hire more development coaches.
There is plenty of excitement about the top-end talent in this year’s draft, but recruiters consider the depth to be shallow and believe prospects begin to even out from about the mid-teens.

Making matters worse is that Gold Coast have the rights to three potential top-10 draftees (Jed Walter, Ethan Read and Jake Rogers) as part of their academy, plus another likely second-round pick (Will Graham), while Western Bulldogs father-son prospect Jordan Croft is a probable first-round selection. That is partly why there is such outcry about the possibility of Sanders, too, being removed from the pool.

There is also a belief North Melbourne does not need another young midfielder, given they already have Jy Simpkin, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Tarryn Thomas, Will Phillips, Tom Powell, George Wardlaw and Harry Sheezel.

In other news Gold Coast Sun will have 2 of the top 5 picks and nobody gives a ****.


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Haha Lloyd said the exact same thing last year ‘that’s the last thing they need’ and then backed it up with the young players won’t thrive in that environment. Well s**t. Wardlaw and Sheezel seem to be thriving.

Final one - ‘more top picks’ we havent received any top pick hand outs?
Il play devil's advocate.
Disregard top 5 picks assuming they can thrive in any environment.

From outside our top 5 picks what players have we developed from within since 2017. Here's the list

Walker, Hayden, Xerri
Taylor, Scott, Crocker
Comben, Mahony, Perez
Powell, Lazarro, Spicer, Ford
Goater, Bergman, Curtis, Archer
George, Harvey

Ignore potential, as this board has the propensity to overstate potential. Of the above 19 players, the only one who is a lock in our 22 is Scott. Maybe Ford. That's 2 out of 18 if we ignore George.

Now some of that is recruitment. But certainly some of that is our player development.
 
Il play devil's advocate.
Disregard top 5 picks assuming they can thrive in any environment.

From outside our top 5 picks what players have we developed from within since 2017. Here's the list

Walker, Hayden, Xerri
Taylor, Scott, Crocker
Comben, Mahony, Perez
Powell, Lazarro, Spicer, Ford
Goater, Bergman, Curtis, Archer
George, Harvey

Ignore potential, as this board has the propensity to overstate potential. Of the above 19 players, the only one who is a lock in our 22 is Scott. Maybe Ford. That's 2 out of 18 if we ignore George.

Now some of that is recruitment. But certainly some of that is our player development.
We need more top 5 picks 🙌
 

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More whinging


Rival recruiters fuming over North’s push for top draft prospect​


Enraged rival recruiters are railing against North Melbourne’s wish to gain pre-draft access to outstanding prospect Ryley Sanders, with some clubs putting together submissions to try to prevent the move.

Anger in recruiting circles has only increased since Money Talks revealed on July 12 that the Kangaroos were exploring options to gain access to potential top-10 draftee Sanders, who won the Larke Medal as the best player at last month’s AFL under-18 championships.

Ryley Sanders, one of this year’s brightest draft prospects, is in North Melbourne’s sights.

Ryley Sanders, one of this year’s brightest draft prospects, is in North Melbourne’s sights.Credit: AFL Photos

Melbourne-based Tasmanian midfielder Sanders received his certificate of Aboriginality in the past couple of months, joining his father Adam with that status, after a lengthy process. He is attending Melbourne Grammar on a First Nations bursary scholarship.

Is Ben McKay Essendon-bound?

Is Ben McKay Essendon-bound?Credit: AFL Photos

Recruiters are not challenging the authenticity of Sanders’ heritage, but would prefer to see North Melbourne work themselves out of trouble.

Melbourne’s strategy of trading second-round picks for mature footballers who could support their first-round draftees – including Ed Langdon, Ben Brown, Brodie Grundy, Jake Melksham, Michael Hibberd, Sam Frost and Bernie Vince – is viewed as a blueprint from the bottom of the ladder that the Roos should follow.

North applied to the AFL to include Sanders in their NGA program and that request is pending, even though he is certain to be taken inside the first 40 picks, which would mean they could not match an opposition bid on him.

However, they have spoken informally with the league about the possibility of the teenager being part of a special assistance package designed to resurrect their fortunes under coach Alastair Clarkson. No decision will be made until, first, the Kangaroos officially apply for help, then, second, the AFL Commission meeting in grand final week.


But industry sources, who did not want to be named in order to be able to speak freely, told Money Talks that North’s push to gain access to Sanders is by no means a done deal.

Clubs are also on guard about restricted free-agent defender Ben McKay’s expected departure from North, potentially to Essendon, hoping the AFL will not beef up the compensation to further dilute the top of the draft. The Roos are on a 17-match losing streak amid a horror stretch where they have won nine of their past 78 games, dating back to round three, 2020.

Among the issues recruiters have with North Melbourne’s hope to gain access to Sanders is that he and fellow Tasmanians, and AFL Academy members, Colby McKercher and Jack Callinan trained with Collingwood – not the Kangaroos – in the pre-season.

Tasmanian prospects, including Sanders, trained with North in previous years.

Another quirk is the Roos are the sole club – the Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast, Sydney and Greater Western Sydney have a separate academy system – without any NGA-approved prospects on the list the AFL sent to clubs in late July, which The Age has seen, whereas most others have double-digit numbers of players.

North’s first and second-round picks on 2023 list​

Jack Mahony, Jaidyn Stephenson, Harry Sheezel, Aidan Corr, George Wardlaw, Jack Ziebell, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Ben Cunnington, Luke McDonald, Jy Simpkin, Darcy Tucker, Liam Shiels, Dan Howe, Aiden Bonar, Griffin Logue, Callum Coleman-Jones, Ben McKay, Tom Powell, Paul Curtis, Tarryn Thomas, Miller Bergman, Will Phillips, Charlie Comben, Josh Goater, Brayden George, Charlie Lazzaro, Phoenix Spicer, Flynn Perez.

Talent scouts who spoke to this masthead on the condition of anonymity because they were discussing an opposition club also pointed out the Roos had a league-high 28 players who were first or second-round draftees.

North received special assistance from the AFL last year in the form of future second- and third-round picks, which they had to trade. They used those selections to bring in Fremantle pair Griffin Logue and Darcy Tucker, and were also allowed to have two extra rookie-list spots.

Opinions differ in recruiting ranks on whether the Kangaroos should receive more help.

Some are comfortable with them benefiting from further assistance, as long as it does not include Sanders, while others would prefer they were given increased soft-cap spending specifically to hire more development coaches.
There is plenty of excitement about the top-end talent in this year’s draft, but recruiters consider the depth to be shallow and believe prospects begin to even out from about the mid-teens.

Making matters worse is that Gold Coast have the rights to three potential top-10 draftees (Jed Walter, Ethan Read and Jake Rogers) as part of their academy, plus another likely second-round pick (Will Graham), while Western Bulldogs father-son prospect Jordan Croft is a probable first-round selection. That is partly why there is such outcry about the possibility of Sanders, too, being removed from the pool.

There is also a belief North Melbourne does not need another young midfielder, given they already have Jy Simpkin, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Tarryn Thomas, Will Phillips, Tom Powell, George Wardlaw and Harry Sheezel.
So because the velvet sledgehammer used his 3 brain cells to count up how many first round draft picks we had, that’s the angle all the media are taking now?..

“North have way too many first and second round draft picks on their list so they don’t deserve any more..”

I’ve never heard so much absolute bullshit in all my life. That pie-eating charlatan Jabba the Hutch needs to be shot out of a cannon into orbit without a spacesuit for creating a click bait media landscape in Australia that purely exist to lie, deceive and defame all for the sake of profiting, without any repercussions..

It’s actually hilariously sickening the levels Jabba’s minions will stoop to try and deny us ever getting out of this hole and keep as their punching bag for headlines, which equal click bait profits..
 
So because the velvet sledgehammer used his 3 brain cells to count up how many first round draft picks we had, that’s the angle all the media are taking now?..

“North have way too many first and second round draft picks on their list so they don’t deserve any more..”

I’ve never heard so much absolute bullshit in all my life. That pie-eating charlatan Jabba the Hutch needs to be shot out of a cannon into orbit without a spacesuit for creating a click bait media landscape in Australia that purely exist to lie, deceive and defame all for the sake of profiting, without any repercussions..

It’s actually hilariously sickening the levels Jabba’s minions will stoop to try and deny us ever getting out of this hole and keep as their punching bag for headlines, which equal click bait profits..
I’m old enough to remember being told North’s problem was going after older players and they needed to invest in the draft. Do that and apparently that’s wrong now.
 
I’m old enough to remember being told North’s problem was going after older players and they needed to invest in the draft. Do that and apparently that’s wrong now.
‘There are a lot of people out there that do not want to see this club succeed’
Denis

It’s never not been true.

It’ll never matter what we do they’ll line up to kick us.

It used to be armour, because f*** them.

We need to get back to that.
 
Another quirk is the Roos are the sole club – the Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast, Sydney and Greater Western Sydney have a separate academy system – without any NGA-approved prospects on the list the AFL sent to clubs in late July, which The Age has seen, whereas most others have double-digit numbers of players.


I personally loved this bit of that article.

That might be because we were given the fertile multi cultural recruiting grounds of Tasmania and the 2km Melbourne CBD ring maybe?

And, why the **** isn't Jack Callinan on the NGA list as a bare minimum? Something stinks here in terms of our admin of the Tassie NGA zone.

I sincerely hope the club just didn't give up on the Tasmanian NGA project quietly a few years ago, to the point of not even listing players. If this has occurred, all of Rawlings, Clayton etc deserve to get frog marched out the door this afternoon.

It registered with a number of us how weird it was for all of Sanders, McKercher and Callinan to be training at other clubs in pre-season. North was also the only Melbourne club not to have had an u/18 Academy member train with them over summer as part of their 2 week experience. Something has happened.


I'd also love to know who the main complainants are, the ****ing hypocrites.


Can someone please PM me Sonja's club email? I feel there's a number of questions that need to be answered for members outside of a sanitized hand picked Q&A session.
 
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Whilst I've been firmly in the camp of "they wouldn't be complaining unless this was a very real possibility".

I'm also wary of reports of things like formal submissions by multiple clubs, especially regarding both the McKay compo and Sanders deal

I highly doubt the AFL are now able to just slip through the motherload like was first reported.

This all points to one regularly occurring theme of the last 15 years, the AFL ****ing us over.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if they gave us another watered down package (i.e pick 19) that we had to trade at seasons end and a McKay band 2 pick and feel like North having 2, 17, 19, 20 would be job done (despite 2 of those picks having nothing to do with compo), just to appease the masses.

It's far easier to **** over North than face backlash from multiple clubs and years of media reports of how they gave North a leg up, they will also face the same requests from West Coast in the next few years.
 
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Recruiters are not challenging the authenticity of Sanders’ heritage, but would prefer to see North Melbourne work themselves out of trouble.

Of course they would we are an easy 4 points for the foreseeable future.
 
More whinging


Rival recruiters fuming over North’s push for top draft prospect​


Enraged rival recruiters are railing against North Melbourne’s wish to gain pre-draft access to outstanding prospect Ryley Sanders, with some clubs putting together submissions to try to prevent the move.

Anger in recruiting circles has only increased since Money Talks revealed on July 12 that the Kangaroos were exploring options to gain access to potential top-10 draftee Sanders, who won the Larke Medal as the best player at last month’s AFL under-18 championships.

Ryley Sanders, one of this year’s brightest draft prospects, is in North Melbourne’s sights.

Ryley Sanders, one of this year’s brightest draft prospects, is in North Melbourne’s sights.Credit: AFL Photos

Melbourne-based Tasmanian midfielder Sanders received his certificate of Aboriginality in the past couple of months, joining his father Adam with that status, after a lengthy process. He is attending Melbourne Grammar on a First Nations bursary scholarship.

Is Ben McKay Essendon-bound?

Is Ben McKay Essendon-bound?Credit: AFL Photos

Recruiters are not challenging the authenticity of Sanders’ heritage, but would prefer to see North Melbourne work themselves out of trouble.

Melbourne’s strategy of trading second-round picks for mature footballers who could support their first-round draftees – including Ed Langdon, Ben Brown, Brodie Grundy, Jake Melksham, Michael Hibberd, Sam Frost and Bernie Vince – is viewed as a blueprint from the bottom of the ladder that the Roos should follow.

North applied to the AFL to include Sanders in their NGA program and that request is pending, even though he is certain to be taken inside the first 40 picks, which would mean they could not match an opposition bid on him.

However, they have spoken informally with the league about the possibility of the teenager being part of a special assistance package designed to resurrect their fortunes under coach Alastair Clarkson. No decision will be made until, first, the Kangaroos officially apply for help, then, second, the AFL Commission meeting in grand final week.


But industry sources, who did not want to be named in order to be able to speak freely, told Money Talks that North’s push to gain access to Sanders is by no means a done deal.

Clubs are also on guard about restricted free-agent defender Ben McKay’s expected departure from North, potentially to Essendon, hoping the AFL will not beef up the compensation to further dilute the top of the draft. The Roos are on a 17-match losing streak amid a horror stretch where they have won nine of their past 78 games, dating back to round three, 2020.

Among the issues recruiters have with North Melbourne’s hope to gain access to Sanders is that he and fellow Tasmanians, and AFL Academy members, Colby McKercher and Jack Callinan trained with Collingwood – not the Kangaroos – in the pre-season.

Tasmanian prospects, including Sanders, trained with North in previous years.

Another quirk is the Roos are the sole club – the Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast, Sydney and Greater Western Sydney have a separate academy system – without any NGA-approved prospects on the list the AFL sent to clubs in late July, which The Age has seen, whereas most others have double-digit numbers of players.

North’s first and second-round picks on 2023 list​

Jack Mahony, Jaidyn Stephenson, Harry Sheezel, Aidan Corr, George Wardlaw, Jack Ziebell, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Ben Cunnington, Luke McDonald, Jy Simpkin, Darcy Tucker, Liam Shiels, Dan Howe, Aiden Bonar, Griffin Logue, Callum Coleman-Jones, Ben McKay, Tom Powell, Paul Curtis, Tarryn Thomas, Miller Bergman, Will Phillips, Charlie Comben, Josh Goater, Brayden George, Charlie Lazzaro, Phoenix Spicer, Flynn Perez.

Talent scouts who spoke to this masthead on the condition of anonymity because they were discussing an opposition club also pointed out the Roos had a league-high 28 players who were first or second-round draftees.

North received special assistance from the AFL last year in the form of future second- and third-round picks, which they had to trade. They used those selections to bring in Fremantle pair Griffin Logue and Darcy Tucker, and were also allowed to have two extra rookie-list spots.

Opinions differ in recruiting ranks on whether the Kangaroos should receive more help.

Some are comfortable with them benefiting from further assistance, as long as it does not include Sanders, while others would prefer they were given increased soft-cap spending specifically to hire more development coaches.
There is plenty of excitement about the top-end talent in this year’s draft, but recruiters consider the depth to be shallow and believe prospects begin to even out from about the mid-teens.

Making matters worse is that Gold Coast have the rights to three potential top-10 draftees (Jed Walter, Ethan Read and Jake Rogers) as part of their academy, plus another likely second-round pick (Will Graham), while Western Bulldogs father-son prospect Jordan Croft is a probable first-round selection. That is partly why there is such outcry about the possibility of Sanders, too, being removed from the pool.

There is also a belief North Melbourne does not need another young midfielder, given they already have Jy Simpkin, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Tarryn Thomas, Will Phillips, Tom Powell, George Wardlaw and Harry Sheezel.
McGowan is usually a pretty straight shooter but it's pissweak of the people complaining to speak only on the condition of anonymity.

I love that they're so pissed off - I'd suggest it means assistance is coming our way and they're just having a big cry.
 
McGowan is usually a pretty straight shooter but it's pissweak of the people complaining to speak only on the condition of anonymity.

I love that they're so pissed off - I'd suggest it means assistance is coming our way and they're just having a big cry.
My lads playing tonight and there will be some recruiters at the game no doubt. Think I'll sit behind the Hawks and Demons recruiters and talk rather loudly to my wife about how they should hand back their premiership cups for being hypocritical campaigners.
 

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Recruiters wanting us to get ourselves out of this mess while also dictating how it should be done?

Rightio.

Also media and clubs complaining that North/WC are making it an unfair competition and then jumping up and down at the first hint of assisting them.
 
In other news Gold Coast Sun will have 2 of the top 5 picks and nobody gives a *.


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Part of me thinks that the attack on us is purely so no one questions what the hell is going on with GCS.
They’re about to create a super team, which will hopefully transpire into one less burden on the afl.

Whatever we get will be hotly debated.
 
From that article, I still can't understand why there is not more heat coming on Gold Coast for getting 3 top 10-20 picks for peanuts! Surely that is far more inequitable that what we're proposing.
AFL Clubs know there's no point complaining about the AFL's love child, plastic franchise as the AFL will do whatever's necessary to ensure they not only survive but thrive. Whereas complaining about North Melbourne well that's stipulated as part of their AFL licence to kick us at every available opportunity.
 
AFL Clubs know there's no point complaining about the AFL's love child, plastic franchise as the AFL will do whatever's necessary to ensure they not only survive but thrive. Whereas complaining about North Melbourne well that's stipulated as part of their AFL licence to kick us at every available opportunity.

Exactly.

Absolutely lacking in all human decency these recruiters who won't put their names to paper
 
These rival recruiters know full and well that NO players in their prime will want to come to play for North. So the fact they are pushing for us to trade 2nd round picks for ready made players is madness.

The only way out is the draft….. we have tried to bring in mature players and ‘talented’ players from other clubs and it does not work.

We are years away off being able to attract ready made talent..only way out is by drafting talented kids and build an environment and let them grow together. Similar to what GWS did.

No coincidence that Sheezel and Wardlaw have shown more in 1 season then 75% of our list has in 5 years….
 
We should just stop whinging. It's clear we don't merit any assistance:
  • We topped up too much
  • We need experience, not more young kids
  • We didn't make the 'hard decisions' to cut deep
  • We cut too deep and should have kept more experience
  • We brought it on ourselves
  • It's part of a natural cycle
  • The integrity of the draft is sacrosanct
  • Gold Coast has 3 top picks in this draft so we can't take more kids out of it.
  • It would be unfair to other clubs that never had assistance
  • It would be unfair to other clubs that won't get assistance in the future
  • We're badly run off field
  • We're strong off-field and will turn it around
  • We're totally inept on the field and one more pick won't make a difference
  • We've brimming with talent already and about to become a powerhouse
  • It's better to give us access to Sanders than a pick because it creates predictability for other recruiters.
  • We shouldn't have access to Sanders because we don't need another midfielder.
  • We should raise the profile of the club and make it attractive by hiring a big-name coach
  • We shouldn't do a victory lap just because we hired a big name coach
  • We should vet our coaches better so they don't have to take mental health breaks during the season
  • We already got LMac, TT, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Tucker and Logue as Priority Picks
  • We need to raise standards
  • We shouldn't have traded Horne-Francis for missing an ice bath
  • We have lots of top two picks already from finishing bottom two so many times.
  • Other teams' recruiters might be upset.
  • We should have taken Logan McDonald

Under current AFL rules, enacted from the 2012 season onwards, a club can receive a priority draft pick at the discretion of the AFL Commission.

A formula which will assist with determining whether or not a team receives a priority draft pick, and at which round in the draft that pick will be taken, has been developed that takes into account such factors as:
  • premiership points that a club has received over a period of years (with greater weight to recent seasons),
  • a club's percentage (points for/points against x 100) over a period of years (another indication of on-field competitiveness, with greater weight to recent seasons),
  • any finals appearances that a club has made in recent seasons,
  • any premierships that a club has won in recent seasons, and
  • a club's injury rates in each relevant season.
We score 100% for matching the criteria: we should get at least as much as anyone has under this approach.
If they want to change the criteria, do it for next year.
 
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Strategy Draft assistance 2023 [Twomey: NMFC get #19 in 2023, x2 end of 1st rd picks in 2024, and x2 extra rookie list spots in 2024; no Sanders/#11]

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