Draft History 1986 - 2001

[hamstringinjury]

Got this from afl website: 3 points:
1)Where are W. Carey and J. Longmire??
2)How did the mid season draft work?
3)what do you guys think about our drafting committee's performance?

2001
National 7 David Hale Broadbeach Qld 0
National 14 (Draft choice 14 traded by Carlton for Corey McKernan, draft selection 23 - Charlie Gardiner, draft selection 39 - Justin Davies) Ashley Watson Bendigo U18 U18 VCFL 0
National 30 (Draft choice 30 traded by Carlton for Corey McKernan, draft selection 23 - Charlie Gardiner, draft selection 39 - Justin Davies) Rod Crowe Sandringham U18 U18 VMFL 0
National 54 Ben Robbins Brisbane AFL 0
National 61 (Draft choice 61 traded by Carlton for Lindsay Smith) Mick Martyn Kangaroos AFL 0
National 80 Hugh Foott Bendigo U18 U18 VCFL 0
National 88 Not utilised
National Traded by Richmond for draft selection 68 (Chris Hyde) David Bourke Richmond AFL 0
National Traded by Carlton for Corey McKernan, draft selection 23 (Charlie Gardiner), draft selection 39 (Justin Davies) Mark Porter Carlton AFL 0
Rookie Elevated Rookie Elevated Leigh Harding Geelong Reserves AFL RES 2
Rookie Elevated Rookie Elevated Mark Hilton North Albury NSW 1
Rookie Elevated Rookie Elevated Digby Morrell West Perth WAFL 7
Rookie Elevated Rookie Elevated David Teague Murray U18 U18 VCFL 10

2000
National 6 (Draft choice 6 traded by Fremantle for Peter Bell) Dylan Smith Sandringham U18 U18 VMFL 4
National 8 (Draft choice 8 traded by Collingwood for Paul Williams) Daniel Motlop North Adelaide SANFL 2
National 14 Daniel Harris Bendigo U18 U18 VCFL 8
National 23 (Draft choice 23 traded by Adelaide for Evan Hewitt) Drew Petrie North Ballarat U18 U18 VCFL 9
National 30 Saverio Rocca Collingwood AFL 21
National 42 (Draft choice 42 traded by Geelong for Kent Kingsley, draft selection 45 - Trent Carroll) Daniel Pratt Northern Eagles Qld 0
National 60 Corey Jones Sturt SANFL 12
National Traded by St Kilda for Matthew Capuano Joe McLaren St Kilda AFL 12
National Traded by Collingwood for draft selection 37 (Guy Richards) Ricky Olarenshaw Collingwood AFL 1
National Traded by Fremantle for Peter Bell Jess Sinclair Fremantle AFL 18
Rookie Elevated Rookie Elevated Ryan Pagan North Melb Reserves AFL RES 3

1999
Pre-Season 11 John Spaull Rosebud VCFL 8
National 53 (Draft choice 53 traded by Geelong for Cameron Mooney, draft selection 15 ) Clayton Lass**** West Perth WAFL 0
(David Spriggs), draft selection 17 (Ezra Bray), draft selection 47 (Corey Enright)
National 61 Mark Ainley Prahran U18 U18 VMFL 0
National 74 Matthew Burton Fremantle AFL 44
National 77 (Draft choice 77 traded by Adelaide for Scott Welsh, draft selection 67 - Robert Shirley) Lindsay Smith Glenelg SANFL 1
National 81 Troy Makepeace North Melb Reserves AFL RES 39
National 87 Christian Woodley Subiaco WAFL 0
National Traded by Brisbane for draft selection 32 (Danny Giansiracusa) David Calthorpe Brisbane AFL 13
National Traded by Geelong for Cameron Mooney, draft selection 15 (David Spriggs), Leigh Colbert Geelong AFL 29
draft selection 17 (Ezra Bray), draft selection 47 (Corey Enright)
Rookie Elevated Rookie Elevated Kent Kingsley Woodville-West Torrens SANFL 12

1998
Pre-Season 5 Damian Houlihan Tatura VCFL 0
Pre-Season 10 Brady Anderson East Perth WAFL 27
National 15 Brady Rawlings Tasmania U18 U18 Tas 39
National 31 Gary Dhurrkay Fremantle AFL 21
National 47 Nick Lowther Preston U18 U18 VMFL 0
National 62 Tim Van Der Klooster Geelong U18 U18 VCFL 0
National 74 Adam Lange Sturt SANFL 27
National 85 Shannon Motlop North Adelaide SANFL 42
National 90 Shane Clayton Brisbane AFL 69

1997
Pre-Season 11 Brett Chandler Fitzroy AFL 44
Pre-Season 17 Anthony Mellington Fitzroy AFL 20
Pre-Season 21 Not utilised
National 14 Shannon Watt North Ballarat U18 U18 VCFL 20
National 27 (Draft choice 27 traded by Sydney for Wayne Schwass) Brad Stephens Murray U18 U18 VCFL 2
National 30 Paul McMahon Bendigo U18 U18 VCFL 0
National 46 Josh Robertson Murray U18 U18 VCFL 0
National 62 Dion Miles North Melb Reserves AFL RES 2
National Traded by Fremantle for Stuart Anderson Winston Abraham Fremantle AFL 72
National Traded by Sydney for Wayne Schwass Shannon Grant Sydney AFL 94
National Traded by Adelaide for Mark Stevens Jason McCartney Adelaide AFL 92
Rookie Elevated Rookie Elevated Julian Kirzner Carlton Reserves AFL RES 3

1996
Pre-Season 15 Peter Bell Fremantle AFL 123
National 23 Evan Hewitt Subiaco WAFL 33
National 42 Martin Pike Fitzroy AFL 81
National 50 (Draft choice 50 traded by Richmond for Trent Nichols) Luke McCormick NSW-ACT U18 U18 NSW-ACT 0
National 56 Cameron Mooney NSW-ACT U18 U18 NSW-ACT 11
National 67 Byron Pickett Port Adelaide SANFL 98
National 70 (Draft choice 70 traded by Collingwood for John Barnett) Adam Hay East Perth WAFL 0
National Traded by Port Adelaide for Paul Geister Kent Kingsley Woodville-West Torrens SANFL 0
National Traded by Port Adelaide for Paul Geister Wade Kingsley Woodville-West Torrens SANFL 0

1995
Pre-Season 15 Keenan Reynolds Footscray AFL 12
Pre-Season 29 Glenn Gorman Sydney AFL 2
Pre-Season Comp Sel (Draft choice Comp Sel traded by Fremantle for draft selection US - Peter Mann) Stuart Cochrane Central District SANFL 33
National 17 Scott Welsh West Adelaide SANFL 36
National 26 (Draft choice 26 traded by Collingwood for Robert Pyman) Chris Groom Fremantle AFL 5
National 33 Sam McFarlane Subiaco WAFL 2
National 47 Brent Harvey Northern U18 U18 VMFL 109
National 65 (Draft choice 65 traded by Melbourne for Alastair Clarkson) Eric Lissenden Warragul Industrials VCFL 2
National Traded by Collingwood for Adrian McAdam Bradley Plain Collingwood AFL 1

1994
Pre-Season 15 Trent Nichols West Coast AFL 33
Pre-Season 29 David Muir Claremont WAFL 0
National 52 Danny Stevens Northern U18 U18 VMFL 15
National 55 (Draft choice 55 traded by Fremantle for Troy Polak) Mark Belleville Western U18 U18 VMFL 0
National 80 Ben Atkins Glenorchy Tas 0
National 90 Matthew Joy Southern U18 U18 VMFL 0
National 95 Kym Eyers Central District SANFL 0
National Traded by Fremantle for Troy Polak Glenn Freeborn Fremantle AFL 55
National Traded by Geelong for Brad Sholl, draft selection 17 (Carl Steinfort), draft selection 69 Robert Scott Geelong AFL 113
(Dean Helmers)
National Traded by Fitzroy for draft selection 35 (Marty Warry), Grant Demamiel Adam McCarthy Matthew Armstrong Fitzroy AFL 43

1993
Pre-Season 8 Greg Eppelstun Footscray AFL 1
Pre-Season 24 Paul Geister Central District SANFL 3
Pre-Season 38 Brendan Bower Essendon AFL 2
Pre-Season 52 Rodney McKay North Melbourne AFL 0
Pre-Season 64 Darren Tarczon Carlton AFL 0
Mid-Season 15 Andrew L. Krakouer Sandringham VFA 0
National 14 Adam Simpson Northern U18 U18 VMFL 136
National 31 Mark Stevens Gippsland U18 U18 VCFL 21
National 46 David King Port Melbourne VFA 176
National 60 Troy Polak Perth WAFL 0
National 63 Gareth John Sydney AFL 1
National Traded by Hawthorn for draft selection 56 (Rayden Tallis) John Barnett Hawthorn AFL 6

1992
Pre-Season 7 Alex Ishchenko Brisbane AFL 97
Pre-Season 21 Marty Christensen Geelong AFL 2
Pre-Season 35 Leigh Tudor North Melbourne AFL 3
Pre-Season 47 Glen Page Sydney AFL 5
Pre-Season 55 Michael Scoon North Melbourne AFL 0
Mid-Season 4 Tim Perkins North Adelaide SANFL 0
Mid-Season 19 Mark Attard Eastern U18 U18 VMFL 3
National 6 (Draft choice 6 traded by Brisbane for Paul Spargo) Robert Pyman Woodville-West Torrens SANFL 16
National 23 Warren Campbell South Fremantle WAFL 19
National 38 David Dighton Westbrook NSW 0
National 53 Matthew Moon Central U18 U18 VMFL 0
National 55 (Draft choice 55 traded by Fitzroy for John McCarthy) Matthew Capuano Geelong U18 U18 VCFL 82
National 83 Jeremy Sil**** East Perth WAFL 0
National 98 Adrian McAdam South Alice Springs NT 36
National 110 (Draft choice 110 traded by Sydney for Dean McRae) Jeff Chandler North Melbourne AFL 0
National 113 Damon Armstrong Moama NSW 0
National 123 (Draft choice 123 traded by Geelong for Liam Pickering, Darren Steele Leigh Tudor) Marty Christensen North Melbourne AFL 0
National Traded by Fitzroy for draft selection 68 (Travis Miller) John Blakey Fitzroy AFL 211
National Traded by West Coast Eagles for draft selection 8 (Paul Symmons) Dean Laidley West Coast AFL 99

1991
Pre-Season 15 Carl Dilena Fitzroy AFL 10
Pre-Season 32 Peter Baldwin Geelong AFL 0
Pre-Season 46 Anthony Palmer North Melbourne AFL 0
Pre-Season 54 Dean Barwick North Melbourne AFL 0
Mid-Season 10 Stephen Zamykal Williamstown VFA 0
Mid-Season 23 Not utilised
National 34 (Draft choice 34 traded by Essendon for Russell Evans) Tim Leng North Melbourne AFL 0
National 50 (Draft choice 50 traded by Geelong for Col Gasden, John McNamara) Bruce Hando St Arnaud VCFL 0
National 69 Brad Sholl North Melbourne AFL 2
National Traded by Geelong for draft selection (Not utilised) Tim Bourke Geelong AFL 0
National Traded by Carlton for draft selection (Not utilised) Richard Dennis Carlton AFL 13

1990
Pre-Season 6 Michael Gallagher Carlton AFL 38
Pre-Season 12 Gavin Lloyd Darley VCFL 0
Pre-Season 26 Darren Tarczon North Melbourne AFL 0
Pre-Season 40 Ken Rainsford Port Melbourne VFA 0
Mid-Season 5 Tim Williamson Casterton VCFL 0
Mid-Season 19 Anthony Pavey Churchill VCFL 0
National 11 (Draft choice 11 traded by Melbourne for Paul Bryce) Danny Sexton Lemnos VCFL 0
National 18 Dan Miller Morwell VCFL 0
National 33 Matthew Kelly Wedderburn VCFL 0
National 35 (Draft choice 35 traded by Melbourne for Paul Bryce) Stuart Anderson Sale VCFL 61
National 45 (Draft choice 45 traded by Carlton for Mark Arceri) Craig Jennings Traralgon VCFL 0
National 50 (Draft choice 50 traded by West Coast Eagles for Mark Hepburn) Craig Ellis Stawell VCFL 0
National 53 (Draft choice 53 traded by Brisbane for Travers Martin-Beynon) Stephen Pears Perth WAFL 0
National 61 Michael Scoon Monbulk VCFL 0
National 89 Simon Wood St Arnaud VCFL 0
National Traded by Melbourne for draft selection 75 (Robert Panozza) John Ahern Melbourne AFL 0
National Traded by West Coast Eagles for draft selection 9 (Matt Clape) Peter Mann West Coast AFL 39
National Traded by Brisbane for draft selection 47 (Luke Chambers) Mark Roberts Brisbane AFL 202

1989
Pre-Season 4 Travis Martin-Beynon Western Districts Qld 0
Pre-Season 18 Leigh Tudor North Melbourne AFL 5
Pre-Season 32 Chris Lindsay West Torrens SANFL 0
Pre-Season 46 Tony Furey North Melbourne AFL 0
National 6 Mark Brayshaw Claremont WAFL 32
National 20 Brett Hawkey Nathalia VCFL 0
National 34 Andrew Venner Ballarat YCW VCFL 0
National 52 Rod Jameson Glenelg SANFL 0
National 66 Shannon Bergmann Swan Hill VCFL 0
National 80 Damian Murray West Adelaide SANFL 2
National 94 John Bingham Old Haileybury VAFA 0
National 108 Eric Lissenden Neerim-Neerim South VCFL 0

1988
National 4 John McNamara Port Fairy VCFL 0
National 18 Anthony Stevens Shepparton VCFL 233
National 32 Brad Sholl Horsham VCFL 0
National 46 Simon McCarty Rochester VCFL 0
National 60 Derek Kickett Central District SANFL 12
National 74 Stephen Hamilton North Adelaide SANFL 6
National 88 Justin Staritski Norwood SANFL 25
National 92 (Draft choice 92 traded by Sydney for Mark O'Donoghue) Stephen Vizy Queanbeyan ACT 0
National 102 Shaun Holloway Ballarat YCW VCFL 0

1987
National 9 Michael Murphy Glenelg SANFL 3
National 22 Scott Christie Strathmerton VCFL 0
National 35 Craig Patrick Wangaratta Rovers VCFL 0
National 48 Liam Pickering Stawell VCFL 22
National 61 Darren Read Leongatha VCFL 0

1986
National 7 Chris Lindsay West Torrens SANFL 0
National 20 Brenton Harris South Adelaide SANFL 2
National 33 Malcolm Shippen Moulamein NSW 0
National 46 Gary Brooker Casterton VCFL 0
National 59 Wayne Morrissey Northern United VCFL 0

 

[Ausgard]

The only number 1 draft pick that was any good was Adam Simpson.

1993 seems to be above average
1997 seems to be the worst year
1999 was pretty barren but mainly because we gave up so much for Colbert

in 95 we got Stuart Cochrane as a compensation pick for Peter Mann and we got Brent Harvey at number 47. If these were the other way around it would all make sense now

how bad was the decision to draft Pyman (sigh)

before 1995 did we do ANYTHING right ?

We seem to do better with late picks than we do with early picks

this list is more depressing than informative

based on this information out of all our 2000 and 2001 picks the most likely outcome is that only 1 of them will make it. Scarey thought

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by Ausgard
based on this information out of all our 2000 and 2001 picks the most likely outcome is that only 1 of them will make it. Scarey thought

I've seen or heard nothing to suggest that the 2001 bunch isn't at the level that they were expected to be at this stage of their careers. Robbins, as far as I am concerned has made it, and Mick was a valuable contributor to the team and well worth the number 80 pick. I would also wait at least another year before I write off Smith, Harris, Petrie, Motlop, Jones and Pratt from being more than valuable contributors to the team, and I would suggest the Rocca has earned his spot.

Not sure which is the one you think will make it, but I would bet that over ten of the last two years worth of draft picks will be good to excellent players for the club.

Moomba

 

[Karanicolas]

Originally posted by Ausgard



We seem to do better with late picks than we do with early picks

Agree. And it is depressing when you look at it.

We may better off getting 3 fourth round picks for Carey as is being suggested by Crows' supporters!!!

 

[Rooboy 34]

Originally posted by hamstringinjury
Got this from afl website: 3 points:
1)Where are W. Carey and J. Longmire??
2)How did the mid season draft work?

Carey & Longmire were never drafted. The draft back then was slightly different in that players could be bought to play from outside the draft in certain circumstances (eg to play in the U'19's) and this is how we got both of those 2. Now all new players must come from the draft...

Midseason draft was just a draft mid-season. Players drafted were usually players who dominated in country leagues, including those delisted prior to the start of the season...

 

[windsock]

Happy with our 1st slection in 1996. We got Evan Hewitt who was traded for the selection with which we picked up Drew Petrie.

 

[Ausgard]

Originally posted by Karanicolas


Agree. And it is depressing when you look at it.

We may better off getting 3 fourth round picks for Carey as is being suggested by Crows' supporters!!!

It would be interesting to list all 1st round draft picks for the last 7 drafts and see where they are.

Its scarey to think that "Carey is only worth a first round draft pick" when I would say about 50% of them turn out to be complete duds

I think the football world is too caught up with the "Reiwaldts" of the world and to a lesser extent Des Headland and Travis Johnstone (ones that took a while to get going) then they do for the Neville-No-bodies who never make it. Thats why I would prefer Kane Johnson to the Number 4 draft pick. At least you know what you are getting

 

[Z_K]

We will all sit back and smile alot when we think about the 2001 draft.

It will win us a flag IMO.

 

[Ausgard]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
We will all sit back and smile alot when we think about the 2001 draft.

It will win us a flag IMO.

We were saying the same thing about 2000 when we had picks 6,8,14

1 year later 6,8,14 are either injured or not on the coaches match day plans

2001 don't have a single afl game of experience in them.

Sure they all look promising but realistically speaking they have about 20 games of experience between them and if the past is anything to go by only a couple of them will make it and at the moment the one that looks the most likely to make it is Pick 23 from 2000. The rest have work to do.

To be honest we get a hell of a lot more out of our elevated rookies than we do with our draft picks

 

[Z_K]

Originally posted by Ausgard


We were saying the same thing about 2000 when we had picks 6,8,14

1 year later 6,8,14 are either injured or not on the coaches match day plans

2001 don't have a single afl game of experience in them.

Sure they all look promising but realistically speaking they have about 20 games of experience between them and if the past is anything to go by only a couple of them will make it and at the moment the one that looks the most likely to make it is Pick 23 from 2000. The rest have work to do.

To be honest we get a hell of a lot more out of our elevated rookies than we do with our draft picks

I actually meant the 2000 draft. Got mixed up with the year the draft was actually held, and the players first season at the club.

Jones, Smith, Motlop, Petrie and Harris will all play and play well next year.

 

[kelman]

Originally posted by Ausgard
based on this information out of all our 2000 and 2001 picks the most likely outcome is that only 1 of them will make it. Scarey thought

Do you really think so
smith
motlop
harris
petrie
jones
hale
watson
corwe
robbins
rocca

seems like a pretty good haul from the 2000 -2001 drafts

I think e have done pretty well in later years...obviously not as good as St. Kilda or Fremantle or Collingwood, but i guess that is the price we pay for putting up with Pagan's "crazy" and "outdated" tactics of making us a consistent top line performer.

So glad that guy has gone, now we can get some good youngsters down at Arden street

 

[hamstringinjury]

Re: Re: Draft History 1986 - 2001

Originally posted by Rooboy 34


Carey & Longmire were never drafted. The draft back then was slightly different in that players could be bought to play from outside the draft in certain circumstances (eg to play in the U'19's) and this is how we got both of those 2. Now all new players must come from the draft...

Midseason draft was just a draft mid-season. Players drafted were usually players who dominated in country leagues, including those delisted prior to the start of the season...

Thanks Rooboy! That clears up my questions.

 

[Ausgard]

Originally posted by kelman


Do you really think so
smith
motlop
harris
petrie
jones
hale
watson
corwe
robbins
rocca

I am sorta not counting the last 2 because they were already established (iknowiknowiknow - double standards - hey - its me)

When you actually line them up like that they do sorta look good but of these Petrie, Jones and Harris (in his first 2 games) are the only ones that have looked truely dangerous. The opposition are (as yet) not going into the game thinking "bloody hell we have to shut down Harris or we are going to get roasted"

They are all just potentially really good. None of them (I am saying ) are a dud. At least half of them have show glimpses of greatness in an AFL game (basically everyone who has played at least 1 game)

I am just looking back at history and seeing that in any particular draft half of them never play a game and only 1 or 2 of them actually make it (on average)

If half of these players play 100+ games for the Roos I will be extremely happy (and possibly a little bit surprised.) From history, it just doesn't seem to work that way

 

[Horace]

In my opinion it is too early to be judging anyone from 2000 and 2001. Remember it takes time for nearly all players to develop. Very few do a Chris Judd and look like they are a veteran in the their first year.

While most of the 2000 group had relatively limited playing time this year, I really liked the look of Petrie in some of his games this year. Remember the Freo game in Canberra.

Smith also showed a little bit, Corey Jones was very good on occasions and Motlop found it very hard to find the ball while sitting on the bench. And don't we all from that position? Give him some game time along with big bro and hey we might have some very handy types.

 

[Yianni]

Originally posted by kelman
So glad that guy has gone, now we can get some good youngsters down at Arden street

What are you saying? So glad the guy has gone, so now we can finish lower on the ladder?!?!?!

Interesting theory...

 

[kelman]

just a light hearted swipe at the revisionist Pagan-bashers that seemed to have emerged on this board on recent weeks.

 

[windsock]

Originally posted by kelman


Do you really think so
smith
motlop
harris
petrie
jones
hale
watson
corwe
robbins
rocca

seems like a pretty good haul from the 2000 -2001 drafts

I think e have done pretty well in later years...obviously not as good as St. Kilda or Fremantle or Collingwood, but i guess that is the price we pay for putting up with Pagan's "crazy" and "outdated" tactics of making us a consistent top line performer.

So glad that guy has gone, now we can get some good youngsters down at Arden street

Liked the first part, not the second (Yianni, I think he was being sarcastic).

I just wonder why you reckon the blokes listed above will be OK. They really haven't shown a great deal as senior footballers as yet, so why the optimism? Should we give them more time to show their worth? Should we judge their talents after, say, 50 games (with a fair amount of onfield time!)?
My answer to that would be of course we should!
So if Denis had have played some of the 2000 draftees more over the past 2 years these blokes would be halfway to getting somewhere as footballers. Nearly all of this crop were physically ready so don't you think it would have sped up their, and in turn, the Club's, development by giving them more of a go?
Surely playing Mick this year, and letting Blakes return later in the year was a backward step. And drafting so many recycled players who have held off these kids, and stopped us from drafting other possible gems late in the draft, is what has annoyed me about Denis.
Denis was a good coach with our list in the 90's. He provided the discipline needed to implement a game plan suited to maximising the talents of the greatest player of all time.
It's just his work since Duck's and the rest of the list's decline that has frustrated many.

 

[kelman]

I don't understand how people cannot see Denis' coaching efforts this year as nothing short of sensational.

At times, i too got a bit frustrated with denis playing older players, but i don't subscribe to the theory that once you chuck a kid into the seniors he will simply rise to another level and become a much better player. There is no doubt that playing in a better team will lift you, but a team of just young guys would not be better. They would be continualy flogged.
I also think this argument that Denis didn't develop the young kids was blown way out of proportion.
There were some good youngsters played, namely Harding, Teague, Petrie, Jones (hen fit), and Smith (although with limited time), and apart from that there was no one really setting the twos alight. Players will not become better simply by playing firts football. if they can't do it at the second best evel with a lot of game time, what makes you think they will do it at the top level? There is a big gap, and it is evidenced by an out of sorts Blakey going back to the twos this year and starring.

I hope that Blakeys "passports out the window" comment doesn't simply mean we are playing the kids. i hope it means, if you have earnt your spot, then repuations and age will not matter...you will be playing.

that may be where you were frustrated, thinking that guys were getting a game on past glories. Personally, i think that overall mick had a pretty good year. There were some shockers though, but maybe his reputation also hinders the supporters view, because we remember how good he was. I do think that Watt looked out of place, and that a year at full back would have destroyed the confidence of an unprepared Crowe.

Overall, I can see why denis must have frustrated, and it still ****es me off that he left, but some of the attcks that have been directed at him on this board have been ridicolous. i still think he is North's greatest ever coach, and thus desrves a fair amount of respect despite that fact that he has left the club. The sudden downgrading of his past performances reflect very little respect for the man, if any, and i will defend him against that even if he is wearing the navy blue.

and the last question Windsock...take our finals team, and tell me who you would leave out and who ould come in. it will give me a better understanding of where you think denis went wrong this year.

 

[Ghostwriter]

I agree Kelman.
I think that if Laidley was named as Pagans replacement directly after he resigned I doubt the vilification of Pagan would have carried on for as long as it did. Since Laidleys announcement the Pagan bashing here has subsided.

 

[Yianni]

Originally posted by windsock


Liked the first part, not the second (Yianni, I think he was being sarcastic).

Sorry, must have left my sarcasm detector at my Grandmothers house...

 

[mighty mick]

give a player at least 50 decent game times in the seniors and then you can judge what they are gonna make of themselves.

a good example of this is the skull troy makepeace i think he has proved himself this yr lets see what hes like after his next season,

players like this must keep taking the next step each yr as simpson has done this yr by now being recognized by the media with his all australian selection.

game time is the key

 

[Horace]

We cannot deny Denis Pagans contribution to the success of the North Melbourne Football Club over the last 10 years. No doubt he was a major factor in two premierships and more finals appearances than any other club over that period.

At the same time North was blessed with having one of the most talented group of players in the history of the game. As a consequence a much better than average coach put the icing on the cake, being a great football team. That era is over in more ways than one with most of the team gone and now Pagan.

However, I am of the view that Pagan's departure now is right for all concerned. That certainly would not have been my view in March this year, when prior to the players having a chance to fly the onfield flag, he was the person that held it all together. I really believe that with a lesser person at the helm, the Kangaroos might well have gone under before the season started. In some ways March 2002 was his greatest contribution to this club.

Times have changed and the list for 2003 will be radically different and much younger than that of 1999 and I just think that Denis might have struggled to reinvent himself, hence I believe a new young coach like Laidley is the right move at the right time. Whether that will bring another premiership in the next 5 years is a significantly different matter. It is just so incredibly difficult to win a flag at any time, but in 2003 with an entirely different structure, there will be no expectations, and therefore far less pressure.

And why did Pagan bring back John Blakey at the end of the seaon? Well firstly his form warranted it and secondly football teams and football coaches who have been together for as long as this lot had been, cannot afford at the business end of the season to be looking to next year. When you are in with a chance to make the 8, so important in marketing these days, and possibly even a crack at another flag if the chips fall your way, it is paramount that you put the best team out on the park.

Some may laugh at the suggestion that we could have won another flag this year, yet Collingwood won 13 home and away and missed the big one by less than 2 kicks. If two results during the season had have gone our way - Sydney and Melbourne - we would have had Collingwoods spot in the finals. Our run would have been Port Adelaide - we beat them both times, Adelaide - we beat them in our only encounter and they ran out of legs then Brisbane. Whos to say what could have happened?

But then again I used to think that Fitzroy was always a genuine chance up to about round 16 each year!

 

[Karanicolas]

Originally posted by jozeph
I think that if Laidley was named as Pagans replacement directly after he resigned I doubt the vilification of Pagan would have carried on for as long as it did.

Pagan left us because:

1. he wanted to be part of a big inner suburban club - well why didn't he do a sheedy and promote the club all around australia until it became a big inner suburban club;

2. does not want to be involved in promoting the club - one day after he purpotedly signs is on the Footy Show in brand shiny new carlton tracksuit top;

3. does not want place NMFC under any financial strain by being paid what he deserves - well he was obviously being underpaid in last 3 years at NMFC to keep the liquidators at bay;

4. does not want to put his name to 14 ghostwritten columns - well what do sheedy, malthouse and frawley do at the other big inner suburban clubs?;

5. does not want to promote any of NMFC's major sponsors as part of getting paid $800,000 a year - well if was good enough for dual premiership coach malthouse to arrive at vic park in a volvo and plug volvos and for sheedy to appear in video game commercials well then surely it is good enough for pagan;

6. wanted to return home 35 years after being given te flick from the U19s - well where did he spend all but 4-5 of those years?

7. wants to provide for his wife - do i need to rebut this one?

Pagan's record at North was sensational, but let us not forget the following:

1. the players at his disposal over the journey;

2. the game plan was very predictable, and frankly, the top sides at their peak from 2000 onwards have consistently had our measure (apart from Port Adelaide).

3. this year with No. 18 gone would have been a good opportunity to begin the generational change, particularly as had we suffered some additional losses, Pagan's record would have meant that he would not have been subject to undue media pressure - the fact is though, he sought to protect his win loss record.

People would have been far more accepting of Pagan had he just said he wanted to move for his own reasons rather than try to justify his position with the spurious reasons outlined above. The fact is, he left for the usual reasons that one leaves a job:

1. a new challenge and environment; and

2. a lot more money - and don't believe the headline figure of $2.4 million. Pagan's ego will have meant that he is getting at least $1 million a year to match Blight and Matthews.

 

[kelman]

Originally posted by Karanicolas




3. this year with No. 18 gone would have been a good opportunity to begin the generational change, particularly as had we suffered some additional losses, Pagan's record would have meant that he would not have been subject to undue media pressure - the fact is though, he sought to protect his win loss record.

He sought to protect his win loss record?
hang on, let me read that again, can't quite get my head around it....

....oh, you mean he tried to win!

Geez, we should have sacked him mid season!

 

[Karanicolas]

Originally posted by kelman



Geez, we should have sacked him mid season!

Well given he had signed with Carlton in July I would have said 3/5 of the way through the season.