"Drawing A Long Bow On Fairness In Football" - THE AGE

[Lavender Bushranger]

The whole league is now catered for fans like you. Which is why so many what i call traditional footy fans are disenchanted with the game.

It's high risk though for the AFL. Because as I said - aside from watching on TV, I have no emotional attachment to the game. Which means I come and go depending on how good the product is.

But you guys are rusted on no matter what.

So they get nothing out of me, except for me watching on TV. But I'm fickle so I'm just as quickly turn over to the NRL or the NBA or whatever else is on if it's a better game.

But from you, they get a bum on a seat in the crowd, a membership stat and a TV viewer.


So clearly they get more from you, but yet they do more to keep me interested?



The reason for that is simple: they know you'll keep coming back no matter what.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It's high risk though for the AFL. Because as I said - aside from watching on TV, I have no emotional attachment to the game. Which means I come and go depending on how good the product is.

But you guys are rusted on no matter what.

So they get nothing out of me, except for me watching on TV. But I'm fickle so I'm just as quickly turn over to the NRL or the NBA or whatever else is on if it's a better game.

But from you, they get a bum on a seat in the crowd, a membership stat and a TV viewer.


So clearly they get more from you, but yet they do more to keep me interested?



The reason for that is simple: they know you'll keep coming back no matter what.

In general terms you are correct, for me personally I have handed in my membership as I rarely went to games and in fact went to more West perth games than eagles games. I watch very little footy other than my own team and the game itself is a poor cousin to what I grew up living and breathing.
It is what it is, I don't like what they have done to the sport and the game but like you said people keep showing up and watching so my little knock is of zero relevance.

 

[Gralin]

Hopefully there's a benefit in the poster I was responding to realise that respect is necessarily mutual. Everything in context I'd suggest.

How does insulting an entire state going to help teach people to be more respectful?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

How does insulting an entire state going to help teach people to be more respectful?

It's an attempt to give to the poster some insight into the impact if those kind of statements.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Needs to be 3 divisions x 6...

SouthWest: WC, FRE, ADE, PA, VIC, VIC
NorthEast: SYD, GWS, BRIS, GC, VIC, VIC
Victoria: VIC, VIC, VIC, VIC, VIC, VIC

Top 4 Vic sides in season 1 take up the Vic spots in the SouthWest and NorthEast divisions in season 2.
Top 4 Vic sides in season 2 take up the Vic spots in the SouthWest and NorthEast divisions in season 3, while the 4 Vic sides playing outside the Victoria division in season 2 go back to the Victoria division in season 3.
1st/4th Vic sides can be grouped together in one division, while 2nd/3rd Vic sides can be grouped together in another divisions.
The allocation of each pair of Vic sides alternates from season to season, so SouthWest gets 1st/4th Vic sides 1 year, then 2nd/3rd the next year, and so on.

The only 2 Vic sides who would stay in the Victoria division from season to season would be those in the bottom 2, who would need to help anyway to get back up to speed in the Vic division.

Basically, 8 out of 10 Vic side will either be playing in the the other divisions or will be playing in it the next year.

A level of randomness is put in place for the Vic sides, so only the non Vic derbies are guaranteed to be played twice each season.

 

[Gralin]

It's an attempt to give to the poster some insight into the impact if those kind of statements.

I doubt it.

 

[PowerForGood]

If the AFL did conferences...

THE BIG NINE
CARLTON
COLLINGWOOD
ESSENDON
RICHMOND
HAWTHORN
WEST COAST
ADELAIDE
SYDNEY
BRISBANE

THE BIG WHINE
MELBOURNE
GEELONG
BULLDOGS
NORTH MELBOURNE
ST.KILDA
FREMANTLE
PORT ADELAIDE
GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY
GOLD COAST

So booing isn't whining?
And remind me which teams' coach is currently talking with the AFL about unfairness in the comp?
And which teams' President is complaining about unfair distribution of timeslots?
And which teams' President complained about finals fixturing and Cola?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I doubt it.

So do I. I was never optimistic.

If you said it wasn't a particularly smart post, I agree. I have qualified it later in thread.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Insecurity has nothing to do with it - it simply comes down to support and demographics.

The demographics say that two teams in rugby mad states is a recipe for failure.

As for the future even Tasmania has a stronger Aussie rules culture than either Sydney or Brissie.

Facts are facts.

I see at least two teams being dropped from Melbourne - 18 is too many and the AFL are incapable of admitting fault so will continue to prop up unsustainable franchises and do a hatchet job on two Melbourne teams.

No they won't, not in the immediate term anyway. If for example HQ do away with 2 of the small melb clubs you're talking a minimum of 80k members and anywhere north 200k paying supporter base - they're not gonna shut the door on those numbers. As for the franchise teams in nrl states it seems HQ are hell bent on making footy popular north of the murray and it seems time is not an issue , however long it takes it seems.

In: no change
Out: no change

 

[NoobPie]

Who has 1-1-3?

We did this year. Teams in the bottom 6 can get either 1-1-3 or 1-2-2

So 1-1-3 is the best you can get which is essentially 2 bottom 6 return games versus 2 top 6 return games easier than the best you can get (all else being equal)

 

[Scotland]

Footy is not supposed to be perfectly fair. Look at the shape of the ball. The centre bounce. I find complaints about difficult fixtures to be pathetic in the extreme. Unless you're talking about short breaks between games / travel, where yes the AFL should've done a better job scheduling.

If your team misses finals by 1 game because you had to play a better team twice, that's on your team. The point of the finals is to find the best team, and you've already admitted to not being the best team.

Top 2 teams this year were Richmond and WC who played each other once, in Perth. We pantsed them. You move that game to Melbourne and it's a different dynamic. You play it twice and it's a different dynamic again.

If you switch our Richmond and Carlton games there's every chance we beat Carlton by 10 goals instead of 10 points and lose to the Tigers, putting us on 60 points level with Collingwood and Hawthorn and potentially in 3rd or 4th. You could argue that McGovern not kicking the goal against Port after the siren would have had the same impact, but you get 'what if' moments in every competition regardless of the fixture. It's also just one example and we got Hawthorn and Collingwood (3rd and 4th) just away so it evens out to some degree, but nowhere near as much as a proper home and away fixture.

One of the quirks of the fixture is the uneven travel. Victorians often argue that travel doesn't have that much of an effect, but then watch them squeal when their team has to travel to Perth twice in a season. Four games affected by cross country travel (two games then two recoveries) has an impact compared to a potential two or none.

 

[LordLucifer]

Needs to be 3 divisions x 6...

SouthWest: WC, FRE, ADE, PA, VIC, VIC
NorthEast: SYD, GWS, BRIS, GC, VIC, VIC
Victoria: VIC, VIC, VIC, VIC, VIC, VIC

Top 4 Vic sides in season 1 take up the Vic spots in the SouthWest and NorthEast divisions in season 2.
Top 4 Vic sides in season 2 take up the Vic spots in the SouthWest and NorthEast divisions in season 3, while the 4 Vic sides playing outside the Victoria division in season 2 go back to the Victoria division in season 3.
1st/4th Vic sides can be grouped together in one division, while 2nd/3rd Vic sides can be grouped together in another divisions.
The allocation of each pair of Vic sides alternates from season to season, so SouthWest gets 1st/4th Vic sides 1 year, then 2nd/3rd the next year, and so on.

The only 2 Vic sides who would stay in the Victoria division from season to season would be those in the bottom 2, who would need to help anyway to get back up to speed in the Vic division.

Basically, 8 out of 10 Vic side will either be playing in the the other divisions or will be playing in it the next year.

A level of randomness is put in place for the Vic sides, so only the non Vic derbies are guaranteed to be played twice each season.

Divisions/conferences and the like are not the way to go.

What happens if all of the teams in one conference would have finished in position 13-18 on a normal ladder ?? They then go ahead at the end of the year at the expense of some teams who have played off in a stronger conference. No way, that is rubbish.

People in this thread are stating that the draw doesn't have to be fair and that's the way it is etc.

Sorry, that's total bollocks also.

Every supporter wants their team to be given the even chance as the others over the season. The AFL's rolling palava of a fixture is not in any way aimed at making it even for the clubs, it's only interested in the $$$ windfall.

To that end and until such time as the number of teams in the competition changes, the 17-5 option is the fairest thing they can do. The draft is based on ladder position so why not the draw ??

Teams are divided into 3 groups of six (1-6, 7-12 & 13-18). You play the first five games & last five 5 games against the other teams in your 'six'. Rounds 6-17 are against the other teams not in your 'six'.

This means that there may not be two derbies or two showdowns and Carl, Rich, Coll & Ess may not play each other twice either. Everything has to be purely based on the way all of the teams performed the year prior.

Naturally who you play twice will change every year as the ladder has changed too.

 

[falcons2]

We did this year. Teams in the bottom 6 can get either 1-1-3 or 1-2-2

So 1-1-3 is the best you can get which is essentially 2 bottom 6 return games versus 2 top 6 return games easier than the best you can get (all else being equal)

Ok
I understood 1-1-3, 3-1-1, 1-3-1 to be all the same as in 3 from your sixth and one from the others.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I don't think the AFL will ever seek to 'kill off' a Victorian club ala Fitzroy ever again. It doesn't achieve anything except alienate a whole bunch of what were actual paying and engaged football supporters. Noone wants to support a merged club either.

This!

Many seem to forget that the majority of Fitzroy (and South) supporters are lost from the league and probably from the game forever (and their future generations). This is the reason we a 10 team state, HQ aren't going to shut the door on any club let alone vic clubs. Ch 7 wouldn't agree to it anyway, too many remotes not watching.

Right now the current model we have is economically viable and seems to be gaining ground - even considering the prop up of GC and to a lesser extent GWS.

 

[ashep]

Footy is not supposed to be perfectly fair. Look at the shape of the ball. The centre bounce. I find complaints about difficult fixtures to be pathetic in the extreme. Unless you're talking about short breaks between games / travel, where yes the AFL should've done a better job scheduling.

If your team misses finals by 1 game because you had to play a better team twice, that's on your team. The point of the finals is to find the best team, and you've already admitted to not being the best team.

This is silly. Everyone plays with the same ball whereas teams have wildly different strengths of schedule and travel requirements.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

This is silly. Everyone plays with the same ball whereas teams have wildly different strengths of schedule and travel requirements.

But for Steven Milne the ball didn't bounce exactly perfectly as you'd expect it to, yet for Paul Chapman it did. It's unfair!

 

[Brutalitops]

The answer is never "less football." Some posters claiming the season is too long- it has always been 22 matches.
Fifty sixty years or so.

Wrong. And over the 18 round seasons there were only 12 teams meaning the double ups were more evenly spread.

 

[sprockets]

It's not made up, it's fact! If Geelong received 7 home games in a row the internet would meltdown...Tigers have been ranked 13th hardest draw in 2019...It's all about TV and prime time, be thankful the Tigers have returned to being one of the big four again...

Firstly, Richmond aren't playing 7 home games in a row, we're playing those away games against opposition who are as used to the ground as we are, some having it as their home ground, the MCG, which means the games couldn't be any more fair. Same goes for some of our home games. Secondly, Geelong has a much greater home ground advantage than any other Vic team because opposition teams only play there once a season and the ground is an odd shape, which also works to Geelong's advantage . Thirdly, either playing homes games early in the season (therefore playing less later) is a big advantage or it's not - which is it?

 

[99cents]

Wrong. And over the 18 round seasons there were only 12 teams meaning the double ups were more evenly spread.

Alright- I don't have the time to research VFL rounds right now, but there have been 22 rounds at least since the mid 80's. 12 vic clubs... 22 rounds.

The good news is the AFL only need to get to 23 clubs- five more!

1.Tas
2.NT
3.Another WA
4.Another SA
5.Profit

 

[jonbe54]

Wildly short sighted view.
Who thought the South to Sydney move in 1982 was going to pan out as it has?

Not at all - I'm not saying it can't work - only that it will take a long time and immense resources.

Meanwhile the rest of the competition pays the price.

It is what it is.

 

[falcons2]

Alright- I don't have the time to research VFL rounds right now, but there have been 22 rounds at least since the mid 80's.

I do!
Most years prior to 1968 the VFL had 18 games, some had 19 and others 20.
68 and 69 had 20 games
From 1970 it was 22 VFL games morphing into the AFL 22 games except 1993 that had only 20.

 

[FootyJunkie]

whinging aussies won't embrace conferences, ha ha

amateur football league

 

[raymond35]

Why does this guy act like he's some sort of hero, revealing some big dark secret?

The league is totally transparent in how and why they create the season schedule the way they do. There's nothing to be "exposed" here.

If you don't like the current way things are done, that's fine, but a random draw isn't the solution. There'll always be amendments and adjustments of some sort needed.

In answer to your question, because the guy is a total douche bag, and like all communists believes he is more intelligent than everybody else.

 

[Lolbert]

In answer to your question, because the guy is a total douche bag, and like all communists believes he is more intelligent than everybody else.

Martin Blake is not a communist. He may be lazy, a douchebag, a communist... but he is not a pornstar

 

[NoobPie]

Martin Blake is not a communist. He may be lazy, a douchebag, a communist... but he is not a pornstar

He’s not a pornstar. He may be a communist, a drop kick and a pr0n star....but he is not a flagasaurus