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AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
DT rucks 2009
- Thread starter 54Dogs
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I think the best strategy in regards to ruckmen is selecting one premium who you intend on keeping throughout the year until the very end, and draft as your second ruck a player that is mid-tier wise in terms of their price that will play all games barring injury and produce decent scores around the 60+ mark with the odd 90-100. Cox is the obvious choice as your premium, it's just selecting the correct second ruck that's the hard part. This year i'm going with Cox and Kruezer; who will be playing up forward for most of the year anyway, where he was most damaging last year, given Warnock and Cloke will be sharing the rucking duties.
I've taken this strategy every year and must admit doing so has enabled me to concentrate on other team areas that need to be bolstered through up-trading throughout the year.
I've taken this strategy every year and must admit doing so has enabled me to concentrate on other team areas that need to be bolstered through up-trading throughout the year.
A lot depends on whether you're playing for overall finish or league win.
Playing for overall position you are aiming to get as many points as possible at the end of the year, so what you need to find is the combination of players across all positions that will net you the greatest score, combined with upgrades to buy more points during the year.
Cox will most likely not match last years average, but he will score highly. ATM I'm leaning towards not starting him as I think without him I have a better scoring team. I am not planning on trading him in during the year.
If you're playing for league win then he's pretty close to a lock though.
Playing for overall position you are aiming to get as many points as possible at the end of the year, so what you need to find is the combination of players across all positions that will net you the greatest score, combined with upgrades to buy more points during the year.
Cox will most likely not match last years average, but he will score highly. ATM I'm leaning towards not starting him as I think without him I have a better scoring team. I am not planning on trading him in during the year.
If you're playing for league win then he's pretty close to a lock though.
Some good points raised then decipher. I myself have learnt alot in recent months about Dt - more than i could have ever imagined. But i think something really big about DT, is having a plan - knowing who your keepers are, knowing who your captain options are, which rookies you want to start in which position, which mid pricers you plan to become keepers, which premiums you plan to trade in, when you plan to trade your premiums in, how many trades it will take to bring these premiums in, how many trades to have left for injury.... list goes on. This is very important IMO.
Also this line struck me:
Back your own judgement. Not what others expect. You may make some errors, but in the long run you will learn from these mistakes, and gain from the unique selections you make, making you a better DTer.
Also this line struck me:
Back your own judgement. Not what others expect. You may make some errors, but in the long run you will learn from these mistakes, and gain from the unique selections you make, making you a better DTer.
Juddy88
Brownlow Medallist
Exactly Lakey. YOu can take in what others say, but I wouldn't recommend choosing a player purely based on what 1 or 2 or 5 people say. It may come off and you'll be happy but if it doesn't, I think you'll be more pissed off.
Back your own judgement, as reading through this board, there seems to be quite a few people (IMO) that make comments to throw people off track. Either into picking someone or not picking them.
Back your own judgement, as reading through this board, there seems to be quite a few people (IMO) that make comments to throw people off track. Either into picking someone or not picking them.
So by doing this you might save 2 ppg. BBut what about the 250k player? If it is someone like Nick Stevens last year or hopefully Paul Haselby this year, then they will increase their output and provide value.
Also, Cox provides a genuine captain option, would you be happy to make J Selwood captain?
Cox + Nick Stevens/Haselby wins over Ottens+ J Selwood for me.
You think hasleby will do a Nick Stevens?
Im not sold on that and I dont want too many risks in my lineup (Already have Coghlan and Rich in my starting 22).
In the end my teams fluid, Coghlan may swap to Haselby given NAB form.
However Im thinking I could better use my money on a premium I believe will maintain last years average rather than a ruck I believe will lose 10ppg and drop in price.
Should all go well I would consider Cox should his price drop otherwise I feel I can do well enough without him. I already have 6+ captain choices so I dont feel i'll be missing out in that aspect. In the end as long as you can replace the 20-30 points difference it makes no difference.
Im not sold on that and I dont want too many risks in my lineup (Already have Coghlan and Rich in my starting 22).
In the end my teams fluid, Coghlan may swap to Haselby given NAB form.
However Im thinking I could better use my money on a premium I believe will maintain last years average rather than a ruck I believe will lose 10ppg and drop in price.
Should all go well I would consider Cox should his price drop otherwise I feel I can do well enough without him. I already have 6+ captain choices so I dont feel i'll be missing out in that aspect. In the end as long as you can replace the 20-30 points difference it makes no difference.
Pretty much locked in my team bar rookies only problem is my 2nd ruck spot. Constantly changing from Symonds (reliable 2nd ruck) to Ottens/Jolly/McIntosh(who all have some risk) and pocketing the cash to use on backs/fowards. What do people think Simmonds will average and do u think he's worth the extra 50k from the options ive mentioned above? Note Cox is already locked in for me.
Do people see a whole lot of improvement in Jolly, or do people look at him as an option for durability reasons alone, having played nearly 100 games consecutively?
Last year, his average with Everitt in the side was actually higher (76) than his average without Everitt (67), which kind of surprised me. This year he'll be rucking with inexperienced back-up, something I don't remember Sydney having in years, so to me Jolly's a big question mark (though I doubt he'll do a whole lot better than a 74 average).
Virgil. Personally I don't see alot of improvement left in Jolly. He will obviously be spending alot alot more time on the ground which may or may not lead to an increase in his output. You could argue the longer he is on the ground the more ruck contests he will be in, leading to an increase in hit-outs/kicks etc.
On the other hand; extra tog will have to result in a reduction in time spent on the bench - less time for him to catch his breath and recuperate. Could lead to him becoming tired resulting in less movement around the grounding reducing his marks/disposals etc. pure speculation with no facts to back it up I know, just my opinion. Jolly is never going to be a good DT player, he just doesn't have the right attributes nor the correct support around him. Only one major positive and that is his immaculate durability history. In my view he represents negative value with very little upside.
On the other hand; extra tog will have to result in a reduction in time spent on the bench - less time for him to catch his breath and recuperate. Could lead to him becoming tired resulting in less movement around the grounding reducing his marks/disposals etc. pure speculation with no facts to back it up I know, just my opinion. Jolly is never going to be a good DT player, he just doesn't have the right attributes nor the correct support around him. Only one major positive and that is his immaculate durability history. In my view he represents negative value with very little upside.
I always thought jolly's fitness base/tank was ok, but i might be wrong.
I agree cartman - he doesnt really kick as many goals or set up play like cox, hille and simmo can.
I agree cartman - he doesnt really kick as many goals or set up play like cox, hille and simmo can.
Cheers to 'Quigley' who did a training report on swans. Heres the info on the rucks (in relation to reserves):
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=538898
So orreal a fair way off - might go for tippett or sullivan with my fourth ruck then.
Currie - all reports positive!
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=538898
So orreal a fair way off - might go for tippett or sullivan with my fourth ruck then.
Currie - all reports positive!
after reading this thread im still not sure Dean cox is worth 100K more than any other ruck... But last season i spent 2 trades to get him in... in the end i think you either have cox from the start or you dont have him at all...
Has anyone considered Fraser... i know the last few seasons have been up and down but he is underpriced due to his PCL injury last season. He has fully overcome it and has even bulked up. Looks to be in his peak physical condition, prob better than the year he averaged mid 90s.
Im thinking of a Fraser Ottens ruck team, lock and leave. Then trade up Coughlan to Hase and Boak to either Priddis or Tuck, thinking Priddis as he is someone who i think is ready to take the next step.
Imo
Cox to Fraser is -25 at most
Coughlan to Hase +15
Boak to Tuck/Priddis +15
Therefore to me its a +5 benefit.
Has anyone considered Fraser... i know the last few seasons have been up and down but he is underpriced due to his PCL injury last season. He has fully overcome it and has even bulked up. Looks to be in his peak physical condition, prob better than the year he averaged mid 90s.
Im thinking of a Fraser Ottens ruck team, lock and leave. Then trade up Coughlan to Hase and Boak to either Priddis or Tuck, thinking Priddis as he is someone who i think is ready to take the next step.
Imo
Cox to Fraser is -25 at most
Coughlan to Hase +15
Boak to Tuck/Priddis +15
Therefore to me its a +5 benefit.
2nd ruck is killing me now.
Have Jolly atm, thinking with no Everitt and more TOG he'll get better, but then someone brought up those stats! Still very durable though, hasn't missed many games.
Had Simmonds however he is getting old. Still wouldn't mind having him as 2nd ruck.
Mcintosh I had in 07 and he was great. Last year he really struggled when he played, I know it may have been injury, but Roos just seemed better with Petrie in there team rucking.
Ottens i'm not sold on. Missed a lot of games at start of year, and Geelong didn't mind that (stating there would be no rush), which makes me think if he has any niggles at all he could be rested for lengthy periods of time.
Kruezer - Has beefed up. Prospectus says it's too early, but it might not be imo if he is going to be a permenent forward.
Leunberger also beefed up, but doubt he will score that highly.
Thoughts?
Have Jolly atm, thinking with no Everitt and more TOG he'll get better, but then someone brought up those stats! Still very durable though, hasn't missed many games.
Had Simmonds however he is getting old. Still wouldn't mind having him as 2nd ruck.
Mcintosh I had in 07 and he was great. Last year he really struggled when he played, I know it may have been injury, but Roos just seemed better with Petrie in there team rucking.
Ottens i'm not sold on. Missed a lot of games at start of year, and Geelong didn't mind that (stating there would be no rush), which makes me think if he has any niggles at all he could be rested for lengthy periods of time.
Kruezer - Has beefed up. Prospectus says it's too early, but it might not be imo if he is going to be a permenent forward.
Leunberger also beefed up, but doubt he will score that highly.
Thoughts?
I think Cox can and should be treated as any other premium avaliable. Many will not start with Bartel but I am sure all of the top teams will find a way to bring him in at some stage of the season. Money that is not spent on Cox is money spent elsewhere (unless you are saving a little). Just because he is the best ruckman does not mean he has to be in your side. I think some posters need to look outside the 'positioning' restraints DT provides and instead look at your team balance - where value lies and how you can take advantage of this.
If you still start will Cox after this then fantastic, he is one of the best going around and will be a valuable asset to your team. But I still believe he should be treated just the same as any other premium option in the game.
If you still start will Cox after this then fantastic, he is one of the best going around and will be a valuable asset to your team. But I still believe he should be treated just the same as any other premium option in the game.
Just had a quick look and Fraser averaged 91 in the last 6 games (inc finals). More tempting by the minute, has runs on the board as he had a season of 95 in 2006. Is now the peak age for a ruckman.
I'm going against what the Prospectus has said and am going with Kruezer as my second ruckman. He's going to be playing a majority of the time up forward, possibly replacing Cloke as our CHF, with Cloke to share the rucking duties with Warnock. I'm guessing for most of the year Kruez and Cloke will be alternating positions from CHF to the Ruck in order to give the side some durability. Kruez killed it up forward last year and believe Ratten will give him every chance to build upon his promising start in 08', until he gets enough experience to move into the ruck in the coming years.
I'm going against what the Prospectus has said and am going with Kruezer as my second ruckman. He's going to be playing a majority of the time up forward, possibly replacing Cloke as our CHF, with Cloke to share the rucking duties with Warnock. I'm guessing for most of the year Kruez and Cloke will be alternating positions from CHF to the Ruck in order to give the side some durability. Kruez killed it up forward last year and believe Ratten will give him every chance to build upon his promising start in 08', until he gets enough experience to move into the ruck in the coming years.
I'm contemplating it, but would like a Lock and Leave for rucks. Will see how NAB goes.
Last year I thought Fraser was value for money and that Cox wasnt worth paying for... season started Cox dominated Fraser struggled...massive mistake.. this year Cox is even dearer Fraser even cheaper.. hopefuly i make the right chice this year
Its a valid thought, but i have to disagree. Bringing in ablett or bartel is much much easier, as there are a wealth of mid price improvers that can increase in value quickly, making the upgrade much easier. The rucks however, dont have many midpricers who can do this, and are very hard to pick, thus upgrading to cox is alot harder. Also, its harder to trade cox in due to the luck with timing that is required. Think with you midfielder or FW midpricers - if they dont line up to bartel when they peak, you can just upgrade to ablett or corey or kane or swan or stanton or thompsom... or whoever the best fallen premium is at that stage that you want in your final team. With cox, he is the only upgrade option, therefore everything has to align more. IMO, it could indeed work out very very well not starting cox, but there are potential risks involved (as highlighted).
Max Bailey and James Sellar are surely ready to crack the 22 in 09. I'll admit ive been living under a ruck the past few months and may have missed the fact they have long term injuries.
But surely the above 2 are good ruck bench choices?
EDIT: maybe not Bailey, was getting him confused with Renouf.
But surely the above 2 are good ruck bench choices?
EDIT: maybe not Bailey, was getting him confused with Renouf.
monkeyshine
Senior List
Bailey nowhere near, Renouf too expensive for bench.
GeeCats07
Club Legend
I have been big on Fraser for years but he always seems to let you down. If you take out that 1 big year he's only just above average for a ruckman. Score wise, Fraser and McIntosh and very similar in that they a usually not gonna get you below a 70 or so in their off weeks. (Both are prone to a terrible game now and then). McIntosh is more than 30,000 less and seems to have more upside (In terms of youth and hitting his peak).
