DT Rucks 2010

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I am contemplating going with Kreuzer + Naitanui. They probably arent going to be the two highest scoring rucks in the comp, but they are basically guaranteed to score stronger this year then last.
 
I think the 'must have Cox' theory is showing its first signs of frailty, and 2010 is the first year since I began where I will not be starting with him. He is usually been the highest scoring ruckmen by about 20-30 points. Sandilands has bridged that gap and will be my number 1 ruckman this year.
 
Pumbi said:
I think the 'must have Cox' theory is showing its first signs of frailty, and 2010 is the first year since I began where I will not be starting with him. He is usually been the highest scoring ruckmen by about 20-30 points. Sandilands has bridged that gap and will be my number 1 ruckman this year.
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Thats the way ive gone as well, however if Cox participates in a few NAB matches and is right for round 1, then would u bak him and go for it.

WCE will be significantly improved this year and many ppl have them coming 8-10. If they do finish around this stage then they will be fighting all season thereby not being able to "shut down" cox as they have done in the past.

There are mixed reports in the WCE forum where some say he is a chance against port and others say he is walking with a limp.

Cox has hardly had a "perfect" preseason before and always seems to have some minor injuries therefore he shows that he can play with pain and average well.

I currently have Sandilands and Kreuzer however if Cox plays in the NAB and shows signs that he is good to go, then he's in come round 1:thumbsu:
 

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Sandi and Kreuzer, cant see it going wrong unless kreuzer plays ALOT at FF and even then he will still average as much as he did last year. With NicNat killing it last week Cox looks unpickable to me at that price. That might sound controversial but at 29 I cannot see him there for WC next flag but NicNAt i do, more game time for him
 
craigy said:
thoughts on goldstein for 2nd main ruck option instead of the usual hille?
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Won't score enough to be a second ruck option imo.

There's also talk of Hale spending time in the ruck, if thats the case, Todd's place must be under threat. OTOH that could mean Hale in the VFL, in which case Goldstein might spend more time resting in the forward line.
 
If Cox plays preseason and looks like Cox I will pick him and Sandilands.

As it is, I have Sandilands and Ottens. I don't like using trades on Rucks other than for major injuries, just isn't enough reward with upgrading them compared to other spots. I have more doubts on Hille than Ottens as far as how things have changed, Geelong dumped their backup ruckman and Ryder was better than Hille ever has been last year so I have doubts.

As for Cox. My worries are as follows

- No preseason. For most ruckmen I wouldn't care as much, but Cox's value is that he is really more midfielder with some hitout bonus points.

- The Eagles. If they struggle early again, I fully expect them to tank like they did last year, basically if the kids aren't ready yet they will utilise how the system works(as they should) to improve their team and given his lack of preseason I see them taking every chance to get Cox right for the next season.

- Tanking perception. If they tank, they can't play Cox, they have to shut him down, no observer could look at them and accept NicNat rucking more than 10% of the game if Cox is playing, he is just not close to as good a footballer at this time. So basically to get NicNat experience whilst they tank, Cox will be shut down.

- NicNat being forefed reps. Cox should be rucking 85-90% of the game. He wont though because the Eagles care more about development right now than winning and Cox is not a natural fit in the forward line as he isn't really a great pack mark and he isn't great off the mark as a leading target, he is an endurance athlete who outworks other ruckmen. As a result I expect he takes his breaks on the bench, not forward.

As for NicNat... For all the above reasons he is tempting. My problem is with point 2 above mostly. If the Eagles do win games this year early on, NicNat takes a back seat, the Eagles are a team that wont settle for top 8 if they are winning, they will go as far as possible. If this happens, NicNat and his development become an afterthought. The BIG positive for him is I certainly see him as a great fit in the forward line when he rests. He is explosive, tackles like a mofo and can take a big mark. He is basically Leon Davis on some kind of super steroids as a forward, though without the silky finish by foot. Nic Nat for me is just a touch expensive for the bench and hasn't got the top end to justify starting. Is a possible trade up for those who are willing to use trades in the Ruck.
 
WoGiTaLiA said:
If Cox plays preseason and looks like Cox I will pick him and Sandilands.

As it is, I have Sandilands and Ottens. I don't like using trades on Rucks other than for major injuries, just isn't enough reward with upgrading them compared to other spots. I have more doubts on Hille than Ottens as far as how things have changed, Geelong dumped their backup ruckman and Ryder was better than Hille ever has been last year so I have doubts.

As for Cox. My worries are as follows

- No preseason. For most ruckmen I wouldn't care as much, but Cox's value is that he is really more midfielder with some hitout bonus points.
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True except for the part about him dropping something like 6kg off his frame which is only going to help his around the ground running and and allow him to pick up even more possies.
 
WoGiTaLiA said:
If Cox plays preseason and looks like Cox I will pick him and Sandilands.

As it is, I have Sandilands and Ottens. I don't like using trades on Rucks other than for major injuries, just isn't enough reward with upgrading them compared to other spots. I have more doubts on Hille than Ottens as far as how things have changed, Geelong dumped their backup ruckman and Ryder was better than Hille ever has been last year so I have doubts.

As for Cox. My worries are as follows

- No preseason. For most ruckmen I wouldn't care as much, but Cox's value is that he is really more midfielder with some hitout bonus points.

- The Eagles. If they struggle early again, I fully expect them to tank like they did last year, basically if the kids aren't ready yet they will utilise how the system works(as they should) to improve their team and given his lack of preseason I see them taking every chance to get Cox right for the next season.

- Tanking perception. If they tank, they can't play Cox, they have to shut him down, no observer could look at them and accept NicNat rucking more than 10% of the game if Cox is playing, he is just not close to as good a footballer at this time. So basically to get NicNat experience whilst they tank, Cox will be shut down.

- NicNat being forefed reps. Cox should be rucking 85-90% of the game. He wont though because the Eagles care more about development right now than winning and Cox is not a natural fit in the forward line as he isn't really a great pack mark and he isn't great off the mark as a leading target, he is an endurance athlete who outworks other ruckmen. As a result I expect he takes his breaks on the bench, not forward.

As for NicNat... For all the above reasons he is tempting. My problem is with point 2 above mostly. If the Eagles do win games this year early on, NicNat takes a back seat, the Eagles are a team that wont settle for top 8 if they are winning, they will go as far as possible. If this happens, NicNat and his development become an afterthought. The BIG positive for him is I certainly see him as a great fit in the forward line when he rests. He is explosive, tackles like a mofo and can take a big mark. He is basically Leon Davis on some kind of super steroids as a forward, though without the silky finish by foot. Nic Nat for me is just a touch expensive for the bench and hasn't got the top end to justify starting. Is a possible trade up for those who are willing to use trades in the Ruck.
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Wait hang on. You just came up with all those reasons not to pick Cox, but you will still blindly pick him if he plays a decent NAB cup game? Thats just silly. Dont forget last year Buddy scored around 120 against West Coast and looked a million dollars. Come the regular season, all his missed time in the preseason came back to bite him, and he struggled.

I would be very wary of selecting Cox from the start.
 
I see Seaby got the nod for the Swans nab cup. Interesting also that Mike Pyke beat Mumford for the cut. Is the Swans number 1 ruck settled?
 
DERIBERATE said:
I see Seaby got the nod for the Swans nab cup. Interesting also that Mike Pyke beat Mumford for the cut. Is the Swans number 1 ruck settled?
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Im not sure why that happened but Mummy will be Sydneys number 1 ruck.

I agree with the posts on Cox, now seems far to risky investing 470k in him. For the first time im also not getting him and im looking at a cheapish duo and using the cash to upgrade elsewhere
 
DERIBERATE said:
I see Seaby got the nod for the Swans nab cup. Interesting also that Mike Pyke beat Mumford for the cut. Is the Swans number 1 ruck settled?
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Ah... it was said that "Seaby broke even with Currie" during our intraclub (who is probably our 4th choice of ruck). If he cant beat a guy who's never played a game, who he's been in the system for 4 years longer than, and who is a bit on the skinny side IMO then theres trouble. Pyke could easily match him for tap work, and Mumford is well ahead of him IMO due to the fact he tackles like a mule and works better around the ground.
 

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Lakey91 said:
Ah... it was said that "Seaby broke even with Currie" during our intraclub (who is probably our 4th choice of ruck). If he cant beat a guy who's never played a game, who he's been in the system for 4 years longer than, and who is a bit on the skinny side IMO then theres trouble. Pyke could easily match him for tap work, and Mumford is well ahead of him IMO due to the fact he tackles like a mule and works better around the ground.
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I've no real doubt that Mumford is the better ruck - on account of the fact Seaby is a proven hack. Mumford has featured in a good number of my plan teams. But in the absense of any injury news I don't know why Mumford was looked over. Hoping somebody had heard something?
 
WoGiTaLiA said:
If Cox plays preseason and looks like Cox I will pick him and Sandilands.

As it is, I have Sandilands and Ottens. I don't like using trades on Rucks other than for major injuries, just isn't enough reward with upgrading them compared to other spots. I have more doubts on Hille than Ottens as far as how things have changed, Geelong dumped their backup ruckman and Ryder was better than Hille ever has been last year so I have doubts.

As for Cox. My worries are as follows

- No preseason. For most ruckmen I wouldn't care as much, but Cox's value is that he is really more midfielder with some hitout bonus points.

- The Eagles. If they struggle early again, I fully expect them to tank like they did last year, basically if the kids aren't ready yet they will utilise how the system works(as they should) to improve their team and given his lack of preseason I see them taking every chance to get Cox right for the next season.

- Tanking perception. If they tank, they can't play Cox, they have to shut him down, no observer could look at them and accept NicNat rucking more than 10% of the game if Cox is playing, he is just not close to as good a footballer at this time. So basically to get NicNat experience whilst they tank, Cox will be shut down.

- NicNat being forefed reps. Cox should be rucking 85-90% of the game. He wont though because the Eagles care more about development right now than winning and Cox is not a natural fit in the forward line as he isn't really a great pack mark and he isn't great off the mark as a leading target, he is an endurance athlete who outworks other ruckmen. As a result I expect he takes his breaks on the bench, not forward.

As for NicNat... For all the above reasons he is tempting. My problem is with point 2 above mostly. If the Eagles do win games this year early on, NicNat takes a back seat, the Eagles are a team that wont settle for top 8 if they are winning, they will go as far as possible. If this happens, NicNat and his development become an afterthought. The BIG positive for him is I certainly see him as a great fit in the forward line when he rests. He is explosive, tackles like a mofo and can take a big mark. He is basically Leon Davis on some kind of super steroids as a forward, though without the silky finish by foot. Nic Nat for me is just a touch expensive for the bench and hasn't got the top end to justify starting. Is a possible trade up for those who are willing to use trades in the Ruck.
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Pretty much this whole post is drivel, though you've mainly annoyed me with the rubbish about tanking. The eagles finished 3 games clear of the priority pick and passed both North Melbourne and Sydney in the run home, and beat the Western Bulldogs away late in the season (also towelling up Hawthorn and Essendon at home). You read too much Herald Sun.

Secondly, Cox has played big seasons off limited pre-seasons before. He usually has post season surgery on something because he's so good at playing injured. It took OP to finally get him to miss a chunk of games.

Do you seriously think the Eagles will be perceived as tanking if NicNat plays more than 10% of the time in the rucks? That's just idiotic. Woosha has come out today on the AFL website and said as much today. Expect NicNat to get more ruck time in certain games and less in others.

The Eagles are a rapidly improving team, and they're improving due to the development of their young players, who will not be starved of development time. This is not tanking, it's natural improvement and the only way the Eagles are going to threaten for the flag in the next few years. Cox won't be around forever, and Eagles players retire earlier than most due to the constant plane travel.

All this points to Cox having less ruck time overall this year, though he's such a gun he will still score well. picking a player with such a limited pre-season is always risky however. Also bear in mind that Cox has a tendancy to destroy Brisbane in the ruck and that's round 1.
 
WoGiTaLiA said:
- The Eagles. If they struggle early again, I fully expect them to tank like they did last year, basically if the kids aren't ready yet they will utilise how the system works(as they should) to improve their team and given his lack of preseason I see them taking every chance to get Cox right for the next season.

- Tanking perception. If they tank, they can't play Cox, they have to shut him down, no observer could look at them and accept NicNat rucking more than 10% of the game if Cox is playing, he is just not close to as good a footballer at this time. So basically to get NicNat experience whilst they tank, Cox will be shut down.
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we beat your mob last year!!! does that mean you tanked as well or do u rate us that highly that 11th was lower than what we should have finished??? idiot..
 
WoGiTaLiA said:
- The Eagles. If they struggle early again, I fully expect them to tank like they did last year, basically if the kids aren't ready yet they will utilise how the system works(as they should) to improve their team and given his lack of preseason I see them taking every chance to get Cox right for the next season.
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Hmmm ... firstly, winning 4 of your last 5 games is one of the more obscure ways to tank.

Secondly, in relation to this year - GC17.

As to my views ... I'm tempted by the Kreuzer/Tippett combo - but am wary of the impact of Carlton's personnel changes on his time in the middle. Hopefully we'll gain an insight from tonight's game.
 
Warnock looks in tip top shape when I went to watch the intraclub at Visy Park. Surprised with his ability to move around the ground considdering he has been limited for a fair bit of the pre-season. The fact that he's been out all last year has allowed him to concentrate on the weights aspect and he most certainly has put a fair bit on. Should only be used on your bench though imo. Especially considering his injury history.
 
He didn't look that great against Seaby, but it was his first hitout at that level in a fair while. You'd be hard pressed justifying a spot in your starting 22 - I agree that he's bench fodder at best.

I thought Carlton looked a lot better with Kreuzer in the ruck (albeit briefly). It'll be interesting to see how long they persist with him up forward - and I'll be steering well clear while they do.
 
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