Saving money in the ruck will cost you big time.You need 2 decent rucks who will average at least 90 a week from each of them.
Your 2 best rucks will be lucky to score 90 between them
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
DT Rucks 2010
- Thread starter Frozenwaste
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Your 2 best rucks will be lucky to score 90 between them
- Mar 23, 2009
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Your talking about NicNat as if the guy cant play. He will do well against most of those backup rucks you have mentioned. This guy is going to be a superstar. Like Buddy except in ruckman form.
Sort of. The biggest worry is whether he is in positions to make the tackles, that was more my point. No doubt that if he is around the ball he is going to get tackles, my worries from him in the past is he tends to run to "bad" spots or basically sit in the square. That may be good if the Eagles decide to bomb it in or force it to him, but otherwise may hurt his scoring.
Ruck knocks is a good way to get 20 "cheap" points and a big factor. Take away 25 hitouts from Sandiland and he is nothing special. Plus, I'm more worried about him again having bad positioning and being out of the play. The difference between playing with Bellchambers and Josh Fraser is huge. When you are the better player you can naturally attack as your opponent will be more defensive and vice versa. If those guys are better it means that Nic Nat will be more defensive. This is good for tackles, not so much for all other methods of scoring. Again, the competition does more than just affect hit outs, it will change how Nat is allowed to play. Most of the guys I named are guys that are likely to push forward hard and try and kick goals, I know if I'm Woosha, I tell Nat to go with Ottens, not let him run free as he doesn't have the game understanding yet to get dangerous doing this or at least not more dangerous than Ottens.
The Eagles may yet find ways to structure to allow him to run free but I doubt it, you just don't structure your team around your backup ruckman who is a very different player to your star ruckman, but that's just me.
I guess how Cox looks will decide that mostly. If Cox is healthy and the Eagles are trying to win games then Cox will ruck 80-85% of the game and I certainly think that will hurt Nats scoring. As a ruckmen I see him as a guy who could score 80 or so as a forward I see him as a 40ppg and very inconsistent. If Cox goes down, Nat becomes awesome value imo, I genuinely think he can be a consisten 80 point scorer as the sole ruckman(20-30 ho, 20-30 tac, 20-40 po) as a backup he just offers no value to me because I'm not sure he can score well as a forward and the ruckman ahead of him is so good.
To be honest, he really isn't a very good footballer at this point. He is a phenomenal athlete that makes up for a large part of it and he is relentless and hard working as a player and as I said above, I like him in a different situation. I also think he will become a superstar, I also think that time is a good 2 or 3 years away. It's his second year, he is very raw, his defensive skills are far better than this attacking and technical skills. Right now against the rucks I mentioned Nic Nat will play a defensive role. Football these days is all about roles, if the ruckman you are against is more dangerous than you, which they all are because they will do a better job finding dangerous spots on the ground, then you play a defensive role on them. Check out how Mark Blake plays for Geelong, he is worse than the majority of guys he goes against, then compare to how Ottens does as his "backup", where he is better than those he is against. I expect NicNat will play similarly to how Blake does, ie. a defensive role and not the kind that will allow big scores.
Everything changes if Cox goes down and I will be all over Nic Nat. Just don't like his fit/role in the team and I could very easily be wrong but I do feel fairly strongly on it and I am generally pretty accurate in picking my rucks.
Very risky. Jolly has question marks and may be overvalued at Collingwood due to his system change. His role will change. I think Sandilands is better value at the same price range. Goldstein doesn't make much sense to me. At best he is your backup, with Petrie and Hale also there he is under bigtime pressure to even stay in the team. On top of which there are far better options at the same sort of price: Seaby/Mumford(whoever wins the #1 role), Hille, Ottens, Maric, NicNat, White, Taylor, Renouf, Charman and Leuenberger. All have appeal over Goldstein for me at comparable prices. I don't like Goldstein as a prospect as long as HMac is #1 ruck, especially with a new coach, will remain to be seen if he even has a spot in the new regime or if they try and resurrect a guy like Hale as a ruck.
- Mar 23, 2009
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Nic Nat defensive? I dont think Iv ever seen the guy play defensively, he is an attacking agressive player. He takes the game on. To compare him to Mark Blake is pretty ridiculous, I couldnt think of two more opposite ruckman. That guy has no talent I have no idea how he played in a premiership side and why Geelong persist with someone who can barely catch.
Anyway, I probably won't actually get NN becuase Im not sure he is a DTer, but Im pretty sure that he will be a good player this year.
Anyway, I probably won't actually get NN becuase Im not sure he is a DTer, but Im pretty sure that he will be a good player this year.
Docker Dolph
All Australian
Spent the least amount of time on the rucks choice last year.
This year I've had 30 combinations.
I'm not sold on NikNat, not even close. Special player but not yet. Cox too risky early. Jolly's new role? Fitness of Hille/Ottens? Ryders role? Brogan to increase output now he's alone? Tippet/Kreuzer playing up forward will affect them too much.
At this stage I've got Sandi & Ottens.
What about Hamish McIntosh though? Surely he's ahead of the Jolly style options because we know what he'll do?
This year I've had 30 combinations.
I'm not sold on NikNat, not even close. Special player but not yet. Cox too risky early. Jolly's new role? Fitness of Hille/Ottens? Ryders role? Brogan to increase output now he's alone? Tippet/Kreuzer playing up forward will affect them too much.
At this stage I've got Sandi & Ottens.
What about Hamish McIntosh though? Surely he's ahead of the Jolly style options because we know what he'll do?
No doubt they are different players, but when guys like Ottens start kicking bags against him it will change. I also must add, that I make all my analysis based on the idea that the Eagles will actually be trying to win games this year, if this changes at some point, then again, Nic Nat jumps in value massively. I just find it hard to see the Eagles realistically letting Nic Nat run free opposed to dangerous ruckmen, last year they let him do what he could, I figure this year they will be trying to develop him. If he manages to be dangerous going forward, then he may prove me wrong on this, but I just can't see an Eagles team that is trying to win back Nic Nat to find better spots than the ruckmen I mentioned, he just doesn't have the game sense and awareness yet.
Again, I could be wrong and I will be the first to admit it if Nic Nat manages to score big on an Eagles team that is trying to win with Cox in it but I don't see it. In many ways he reminds me of big Pykey at Sydney, he can do some things that make you say wow but for the most part he is just a big massive athlete that looks lost as a footballer. He is going to be very interesting to watch anyway and perhaps even more interesting will be how the Eagles try and use and harness his abilities.
If I felt it was so, he would be the easy choice for ruck #2 but I just don't see it. I'm pretty sure the stats are out there for when Lade didn't play last year that Brogan doesn't do anything extra. Always felt that way.
Biggest problem with Brogan is that isn't a "game time" style of player. Guys like Clarke and Ryder racked them up last year rucking due as much to their style as anything else. Brogan for me is a guy who will score similarly regardless of time. He will get some more hitouts, maybe a tackle or 2 more, but I only see about 10-20 points max from that, he isn't a possession guy and I don't see that changing just because of more field time. Just my feel. Sort of wish Brogran retired and made Lade do all the ruck. Lade used to be such a gun in that situation.
Lade played every game last year. Brogan played 5 matches without Lade in 2008 and increased his average in those 5 games by more than 10 points per game. He also finished last year very strongly.
Yellow Feathers
Norm Smith Medallist
Im not happy with any of the rucks this year, therefore i refuse to spend anything on them.
Sandilands? Meh. Getting old and can't see him improving by much. Big men like that have bad injury troubles. His poor knees must take some punishment. Was a good price last year, this year- not for me.
Cox- Might not even be ready for Rd 1. West Coast players (because of the extra traveling) don't play beyond 30 and Cox isn't far off. Way too risky.
Clarke- Competition in the ruck role this year. Will he still get the same amount of game time? What are his chances of improving?
McIntosh- Will probably average the same again. Was a great cheap pick last year but now is at full price.
So who am i left with really? Kreuzer will play as a makeshift forward and a second fiddle to Warnock. Tippett is a better forward than Kreuzer- i think he will be a better option now.
Ottens- Seriously? Ottens? What has this guy done in the last few years that I have missed? Probably the most injury prone player in the league, who has never had a great average. Anyone who picks Ottens must be trying to lose on purpose. Selecting Hille isnt much better.
Im really stumped on rucks this year. I've decided to spend my money elsewhere, as i can see players from defense, midfield and forward scoring higher than any ruckman on offer- Sandilands included.
Sandilands? Meh. Getting old and can't see him improving by much. Big men like that have bad injury troubles. His poor knees must take some punishment. Was a good price last year, this year- not for me.
Cox- Might not even be ready for Rd 1. West Coast players (because of the extra traveling) don't play beyond 30 and Cox isn't far off. Way too risky.
Clarke- Competition in the ruck role this year. Will he still get the same amount of game time? What are his chances of improving?
McIntosh- Will probably average the same again. Was a great cheap pick last year but now is at full price.
So who am i left with really? Kreuzer will play as a makeshift forward and a second fiddle to Warnock. Tippett is a better forward than Kreuzer- i think he will be a better option now.
Ottens- Seriously? Ottens? What has this guy done in the last few years that I have missed? Probably the most injury prone player in the league, who has never had a great average. Anyone who picks Ottens must be trying to lose on purpose. Selecting Hille isnt much better.
Im really stumped on rucks this year. I've decided to spend my money elsewhere, as i can see players from defense, midfield and forward scoring higher than any ruckman on offer- Sandilands included.
Pumbi
Club Legend
A 28 year old ruckman is old?
Yellow Feathers
Norm Smith Medallist
Yup
I've had Sandi and Kreuzer from the start and have had them locked in... haven't even touched my rucks since. I think both look consistent and durable which means I can lock and leave for the moment unless something drastic occurs.
Yellow Feathers
Norm Smith Medallist
I can definately see why people will choose Sandi... but he really isnt for me.
RedFeather
Senior List
What do you think of Seaby?
That's effectively saying, What do you think of a disabled man playing AFL!
I'd steer clear of Seaby, Mumford will take the number one spot this year
Seaby should play nearly all games as I can't really see Pyke or Currie being developed enough to pressure Seaby's second ruck spot but for around the same price, Mumford lies, the much better option!
kfleong2000
Club Legend
People said that last year and I ignored them. Selected him from Round 1 and never regretted it.
With Sandi's massive height, you know he's good for 30 pts a game at least from hit-outs alone, and he's added an attacking facet to his game. Don't expect to see him benched a lot and he will get loads of game time (although the end of season surgery option from a Freo team that looks destined to finish in the lower reaches of the table this season is a definite possibility).
A near lock as a ruck premium for me.
I cant possibly think of a 'no risk' combination this year - impossible. You name a ruckman, and theres most likely a number of concerns that people could justifiably raise.
Hmm yea I probably should of rephrased that to the 'least-risky' combination as I 100% agree with you there are no "safe" ruck combinations this year.
Clark will be first ruck regardless of Charamans injury. The problem with Clark this year is 1 Leuwnbeerger and/or Charman will take game time off him and 2 He was so damaging last year but still got under the guard, that wont happen this year.
slider1978
Senior List
I was thinking of sandilands and Warnock with lobbe for cover at the start of the year and then upgarding to cox about round 8. I just think id rather spend money elsewhere early in the mids or forward line than trying to find another ruckman thats going to be effective like sandilands or a fully fit cox.
Pumbi
Club Legend
I considered this for a while, but lets be honest. Is Warnock gonna score well, let alone generate enough cash for an upgrade? It all depends if he is given the prime ruck role.
I think this is worth consideration too. IF Warnock is fit and playing he is going to reach at least 250K I suspect and maybe more. If the alternative is to pick Nicnat and strategy is to upgrade your second ruck to Cox it is less likely that he will increase to 380 in value. As a cash cow Warnoch should be superior, however Nic Nat may be a keeper and save you a trade. Also if if you play Warnock, Lobbe is not very solid cover whickh is another risk.
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