Rumour Dylan Shiel to Geelong

[witsend]

Does that mean he will have the same year as a 31 yo??
Adelaide were 1 kick away in 2011.... ???
Just a few hard questions one must ask themselves... And I guess the Club has been doing over the past month.

I'm all for hard questions and tough answers but SJ? Please!! Guy is in career best form. Let's trade Enright while we're at it...
Of course time will be catching up with them very soon but until some signs are showing it's ridiculous to even consider offloading them. We're having enough heartache releasing a player who missed 18 games this year with a hamstring strain!

 

[AM]

I'm all for hard questions and tough answers but SJ? Please!! Guy is in career best form. Let's trade Enright while we're at it...
Of course time will be catching up with them very soon but until some signs are showing it's ridiculous to even consider offloading them. We're having enough heartache releasing a player who missed 18 games this year with a hamstring strain!

Mainly coming from Chappy's family.

 

[witsend]

Does that mean he will have the same year as a 31 yo??
Adelaide were 1 kick away in 2011.... ???
Just a few hard questions one must ask themselves... And I guess the Club has been doing over the past month.

Who knows? No signs yet of diminishing output.
Should we consider offloading Selwood with his dodgy knees?
What's the point of having champion players if you try to dump them WHILE they are champions??!!
Especially when you're still in or approaching "the window".

 

[witsend]

I would give up StevieJ in a heartbeat for No.1 pick.... Even No.2...
Imagine that Boyd for StevieJ.... Ohhhh yeah.....
But the fact is.... He has to be willing to go to that club...
That's the catch in all of our wild trading scenarios when it comes to players...

Not sure if actually serious!!!

 

[witsend]

i agree free agency has changed the whole code of football, before the expansion clubs and free agency, trade week was about as interesting as watching grass grow most of the time. i suspect it will become much harder to keep sides together and the whole keep all your champions for less may very well be a thing of the past.

in saying that, free agency is what i think we should really be using to fill any gaps, i really dont want us to steer from the winning recipe that made us so great in the first place and into one of the greatest sides of all time, that is using our draft picks and developing well.

i have said this many times and i still stick by it, the hawks will come crashing down hard sooner or later, you cant keep handing away draft picks like they have been withour it coming back around someday. i think the reason it hasnt caught up to them is because as long as they had a foundation of mitchel hodge franklin roughhead lewis and some of the older heads around that they could mold a quality team around the stars. but once a couple start to drop off or they lose them aka franklin, things may start to get ugly real fast.

imagine if we had of traded a lot of our first round draft picks out and not gotten the likes of smedts horlin smith thurlow etc, do you think we would have performed a heck of a lot different to date? probably not. but you can be sure that in 3-5 years we would have been entirely stuffed just about

Very, very well said. Hawthorn will be St Kilda in 2 years...mark my words. GFC and Collingwood are showing the way albeit slightly different approaches.

 

[witsend]

Mainly coming from Chappy's family.

He feels like family to me!

 

[CF]

i agree free agency has changed the whole code of football, before the expansion clubs and free agency, trade week was about as interesting as watching grass grow most of the time. i suspect it will become much harder to keep sides together and the whole keep all your champions for less may very well be a thing of the past.

in saying that, free agency is what i think we should really be using to fill any gaps, i really dont want us to steer from the winning recipe that made us so great in the first place and into one of the greatest sides of all time, that is using our draft picks and developing well.

i have said this many times and i still stick by it, the hawks will come crashing down hard sooner or later, you cant keep handing away draft picks like they have been withour it coming back around someday. i think the reason it hasnt caught up to them is because as long as they had a foundation of mitchel hodge franklin roughhead lewis and some of the older heads around that they could mold a quality team around the stars. but once a couple start to drop off or they lose them aka franklin, things may start to get ugly real fast.

imagine if we had of traded a lot of our first round draft picks out and not gotten the likes of smedts horlin smith thurlow etc, do you think we would have performed a heck of a lot different to date? probably not. but you can be sure that in 3-5 years we would have been entirely stuffed just about

I understand what you're saying and if you read my post carefully you'll find I'm not actually disagreeing with you. I'm suggesting that the new reality will be finding the balance between trading and drafting that allows you to still get quality young talent into the club but sometimes finding established players that fill holes until those young guys mature.

As for your opinion about Hawthorn I don't think they'll implode like you do, but time will tell I suppose. No doubt their core players are aging and they will go through an adjustment period as they begin to retire (like we have been). But they do have some good young blokes coming through. I mean you don't win the VFL GF if you have a shit team in the reserves do you.

Lastly I'm not wasting my time imagining things that didn't happen. As far as I am concerned the more clubs themselves see the advantages of FA/Trading, the more we will see it happen. This trade period has shown a real shift in clubs attitudes too. Clubs previously were against FA, and trading was done reluctantly. Now they're embracing it because they can see it can benefit them.

My point is Footy has changed again whether you or I like it or lump it.

 

[witsend]

Not looking at what is best for the club going forward is worse....??? Yes??
Look... I'm not saying I would offload him for a box of chocolates....
But sometimes offers are not to be ignored....
Look at Chappy.... If we could have traded him for pick lets say 16 last year to Collingwood....
We would have had Brody Grundy on our list...
And all I can say there would be a few happy people at Geelong if Grundy was here...
As at this moment Chappy is.... .??? Where is he??

Where Chappy was at last year was entirely different from where SJ is now, which is why he was only offered 1 year not 2 in 2012. He has had 3 years at least of significant soft tissue injuries.
I will be staggered if he plays 10 games in 2014. If he does, good luck to him, but I won't lose any sleep over it.
SJ is, again, in career best form and showing no particular signs of excessive wear and tear. Plus he's never been fast.

 

[catman 71]

Unless you are Melbourne.

Which champions have Melbourne traded?

Which champions did Melbourne even have?

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Not sure if actually serious!!!

Dead serious!
If what I have read and heard he is as good or even better than young Cameron....
Lock me in Eddie!!

 

[BIGANT]

wood duck of the week ^^

 

[catman 71]

Unless you are Melbourne.

I don't remember Melbourne trading Garry Lyon, Jim Stynes, David Neitz or David Schwartz.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

I don't remember Melbourne trading Garry Lyon, Jim Stynes, David Neitz or David Schwartz.

Maybe that was their problem to begin with??

 

[Gee Class Loco]

No way in hell would you have received pick 16 for chappy last year. No way.
And if we do something like that we cut the heart and soul of the club.

Here's a free tip mate. The grass is not always greener.

If ....was the word I used.... IF ....
As for tips.... If it ain't a horse that's running at Caulfield this Saturday... then keep em to yourself.

 

[Vdubs]

Very, very well said. Hawthorn will be St Kilda in 2 years...mark my words. GFC and Collingwood are showing the way albeit slightly different approaches.

Wishful thinking?
Hawthorn are a very well managed club.
No sooner has Clarko won a flag, and he's off to USA to observe the ways of other elite codes.
Hawthorn expects and achieves success- they have been up about as long or longer than us- 1 in 08, 3 in 2011, 2 in 2012, 1 in 2013. And consecutive years of minor premiers.
They lost Buddy and immediately formulated a way all this year to play around him and not through him, with great results, GUNSTON emerges.
They replace their ailing ruckman with McEvoy who is the pick of all the moves so far.
They will continue to stay up there with their modus operandi being as successful or > than ours.


And, IF they do end up near the bottom for a year or 3, so be it if it gets you the nucleus of Buddy, Roughy and Hodge like players.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

The one constant in any successful sporting organisation around the world is STABILITY! If you start to offload champions to other clubs before their time is up what happens is you create a culture of selfishness. This mentality will spread through to the playing group and before you know it you'll have players starting to think to themselves "well maybe i should look at my options considering that when i get to a certain age or my form starts to drop off they're probably gonna look to get rid of me anyway."

The reason that we've been able to retain the majority of our good players for so long is because they know that they're going to be well looked after. If we start to deviate from this (which we won't) it would only end in disaster.

 

[Turbocat]

Very, very well said. Hawthorn will be St Kilda in 2 years...mark my words. GFC and Collingwood are showing the way albeit slightly different approaches.

Not sure about that. BigBoy is what 24? Their VFL side beat our in the GF , so they are not devoid of talent. Us picking up Hmac was far more short sighted.

To a degree it will depend on how the players we and they have picked up perform , and how long they perform for. It will also depend on how our kids develop when given a chance.

And there is luck as well. A fit Menzel this year and we beat Hawks. If he recovers and gives us many years of service we go.stay up. If he is a bad luck failure then it hurts us. Too many bad luck stories and the club list folds

 

[you pick one]

Wishful thinking?
Hawthorn are a very well managed club.
No sooner has Clarko won a flag, and he's off to USA to observe the ways of other elite codes.
Hawthorn expects and achieves success- they have been up about as long or longer than us- 1 in 08, 3 in 2011, 2 in 2012, 1 in 2013. And consecutive years of minor premiers.
They lost Buddy and immediately formulated a way all this year to play around him and not through him, with great results, GUNSTON emerges.
They replace their ailing ruckman with McEvoy who is the pick of all the moves so far.
They will continue to stay up there with their modus operandi being as successful or > than ours.


And, IF they do end up near the bottom for a year or 3, so be it if it gets you the nucleus of Buddy, Roughy and Hodge like players.

Spot on Dubs as much as I'd like to see them crash and burn it's not going to happen for a while yet,their list management of late in the main has been superb and they seam to have no trouble getting their man once they have identified him,as much as it shits me players from other clubs appear to be willing to walk over broken glass to get to the Hawks of late.

 

[nananana catman]

Us picking up Hmac was far more short sighted.

He didn't cost us two early draft picks and a young player though.... Jury's out on whether it was a bad move yet too.

 

[Turbocat]

He didn't cost us two early draft picks and a young player though.... Jury's out on whether it was a bad move yet too.

Nana , its not just the cost its the list space and the opportunity. Even last year we may have looked at Grundy if we didn't have Hmac , especially since we would have had another R2 pick which Thurlow may have lasted to

 

[nananana catman]

Nana , its not just the cost its the list space and the opportunity. Even last year we may have looked at Grundy if we didn't have Hmac , especially since we would have had another R2 pick which Thurlow may have lasted to

A lot of what ifs...

Given where we were at at the end of 12, it was a pretty reasonable, cheap call to make, and its hardly put our ruck development back at all.

 

[CatTricks]

Nana , its not just the cost its the list space and the opportunity. Even last year we may have looked at Grundy if we didn't have Hmac , especially since we would have had another R2 pick which Thurlow may have lasted to

He didn't cost us two early draft picks and a young player though.... Jury's out on whether it was a bad move yet too.

We could possibly have picked Grundy, Thurlow and Hartman.
Then we could all point and laugh at Collingwood with their 40 year old ruck division.
Anyone who thinks trading in HMac wasn't a **** up has rocks in their head.

 

[hbk_aus]

Very, very well said. Hawthorn will be St Kilda in 2 years...mark my words. GFC and Collingwood are showing the way albeit slightly different approaches.

Wishful thinking. They are going nowhere. They are able to get young blokes in from other clubs in trades like Gunston and McEvoy and draft generally very well (Hill, Anderson). They will be around for a while in this era of free agency.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Age catches up with everybody...
It will slow you....
It will diminish your skills....
It won't let you heal as quickly as you did ....
But I agree with you that SJ has played his best football of his career in he last two years....
What scares me is.... That it might be the best we get.... Does he get better or does the dropoff start??
At nearly 31 at the start of season 2014.... Father Time is knocking on the door.

I can't look past 07 for his best year personally. Kicking something like 50 goals in 16 matches? Could have taken out the Coleman if he had of started round 1! I thought that year he was top 5 in the competition

 

[Nicko29]

Wishful thinking. They are going nowhere. They are able to get young blokes in from other clubs in trades like Gunston and McEvoy and draft generally very well (Hill, Anderson). They will be around for a while in this era of free agency.

They're alright in the key positions, but do they have any young mids at all? Gonna get destroyed when Mitchell, Sewell, Hodge and Lewis are gone.