Opinion Football in no man's land - Geelong 2024.

[Footy Smarts]

No way known I am agreeing with Blicavs. He's been rather abject this season.
14 touches, 2.5 clearance and 8 hitouts is bog ordinary.

Atkins is admittedly 3rd at the club for clearances, but I don't see that as noteworthy given how shit we are in the midfield.
Doing the same thing over and over and picking the same poorly performing group is what I class as insane.

Blicavs is struggling. Clearly. But he's also our back-up ruck and his best is top 5 at the club.
Replacing him with Parfitt or Hardie would mean trying to solve more ruck issues and likely not make us any better. All the other options (Knevitt, Clohesy, etc) would get smashed as inside mids at AFL level.

Atkins is 3rd for clearances and 1st for tackles at the club despite spending the early season in the back line. He's having a solid year.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Blicavs is struggling. Clearly. But he's also our back-up ruck and his best is top 5 at the club.
Replacing him with Parfitt or Hardie would mean trying to solve more ruck issues and likely not make us any better. All the other options (Knevitt, Clohesy, etc) would get smashed as inside mids at AFL level.

Atkins is 3rd for clearances and 1st for tackles at the club despite spending the early season in the back line. He's having a solid year.

I am more than happy to find out what footy without Blicavs looks like. He's playing poorly, has 0.5-1.5 seasons left in the game so dropping him concerns me not.

As for Atkins, do not rate tackle stats at all. It's a stat for players 2nd to the ball.
If someone is getting it 25-30 times with 6+ clearances and 15+ contested possessions as well as being a tackling monster... Ala Liberatore. Then fair enough. 17 touches with tackling being your 1 great attribute does not impress me much. It's all Parfitt is good at, and he's utter shit.

 

[cats_09]

OH MY GOD! IT'S HAPPENING!

I feel like I've put too much pressure on the kid now. I'm just happy to see him named and run through the banner. Everything else is a bonus

Think it's time I go get some sleep as I read one of those sentences as saying something completely different

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Think it's time I go get some sleep as I read one of those sentences as saying something completely different

Haha that could be a bonus too

 

[Lana]

I am more than happy to find out what footy without Blicavs looks like. He's playing poorly, has 0.5-1.5 seasons left in the game so dropping him concerns me not.

As for Atkins, do not rate tackle stats at all. It's a stat for players 2nd to the ball.
If someone is getting it 25-30 times with 6+ clearances and 15+ contested possessions as well as being a tackling monster... Ala Liberatore. Then fair enough. 17 touches with tackling being your 1 great attribute does not impress me much. It's all Parfitt is good at, and he's utter shit.

If an inside midfield has a lower possession count and a higher tackle count, it can only be a solid performance if their positioning (through blocking or creating space/running lanes) facilitates other players to play with more aggression and win the ball, if no one is winning the ball then it is just empty stats.

 

[Footy Smarts]

If an inside midfield has a lower possession count and a higher tackle count, it can only be a solid performance if their positioning (through blocking or creating space/running lanes) facilitates other players to play with more aggression and win the ball, if no one is winning the ball then it is just empty stats.

Since he moved into midfield around the Demons game he's averaged 20 touches a game. That's more than he averaged in 2022 (18.1) or 2023 (19.4).

Yes he's a defence first midfielder. I'd prefer he was Bont too. But it seems weird to blame the guy doing a solid job because he's not a star while the rest of the midfield is really struggling.

 

[The_Koulouriotis_Fan]

Has it bitten us though? The aim of the game is premierships.
We won in '22 vindicating our work.

2013 traded veterans Kelly, Possibly, Chapman, as well as West. One of those picks netted us Kolodjashnij in the draft.

2014. Traded Christensen for a pick we used on Stanley.

2015. Traded for Dangerfield, among others. Pick swaps netted us the draft choice to use on Menegola.

2016. Traded for Tuohy. Caddy trade got us the pick used on Parfitt.

2017. Lost Motlop to FA. Used pick to trade for Ablett, accompanying pick them used on Kelly. Traded to WCE later on for picks used even later on for Jeremy Cameron.

I could go on for further years but we get the picture. Every year you mentioned we traded for key pieces to our recent premiership. If a lack of 25-29 yo now is the trade off in 2024 then I'd say 99.9% of cats fans would accept that sacrifice for what we saw in September 2022.

Very well said!

Was thinking a similar thing. Also if you look at the players we could’ve taken in the drafts we had picks, not a lot of them made sense for our list at the time. The FA players and mature age picks we brought in were why we were top 4 16-17, 19-21 and ultimately won the 22 flag.

Also, for me the 22 flag is the sweetest of them all, so much so that I find it hard to be upset about footy anymore. Was just so happy to see those boys win the way they did and for them to get what they deserved and us fans witness it. So yep, I’m one of the 99.9%.

 

[The_Koulouriotis_Fan]

If an inside midfield has a lower possession count and a higher tackle count, it can only be a solid performance if their positioning (through blocking or creating space/running lanes) facilitates other players to play with more aggression and win the ball, if no one is winning the ball then it is just empty stats.

This is the issue with our midfield though, Atkins shouldn’t be your first banana which he has had to be. In 2022 he was 4th and played his role well, same with blitz. They’re both screwed by our lack of (current) high quality midfielders.

 

[Lana]

Since he moved into midfield around the Demons game he's averaged 20 touches a game. That's more than he averaged in 2022 (18.1) or 2023 (19.4).

Yes he's a defence first midfielder. I'd prefer he was Bont too. But it seems weird to blame the guy doing a solid job because he's not a star while the rest of the midfield is really struggling.

This isn't a blame game kind of thing, its an acknowledgment of where we are.

The inside mid rotations are the most competitive role in the competition, unlike keys where clubs are forced to use what they have. Clubs' strongest, fittest most explosive players get drawn from the largest body of players. 4-6 players per team. If you're only solid, you're getting killed in there. There is a reason why guys rack it up in the VFL and don't get a look in. The closer you are to being "the guy" for your team the harder it is. Over a season meaningful output is very top heavy, much more than the raw numbers suggest.

On Atkins, he is 29, has played 120 odd games and is solid. In the same way that Parfitt is 26 has played has played 120 odd games and is solid. A player can have good games, good moments and still be out matched over the course of a year.

In 2022 he was the last player in our inside mid rotations. There is no harm in the 6th guy averaging 18 disposals a games. He is just filling rotations. Even better when his is on a rookie wage and costs you nothing.

At points last year he was leading our midfield and it/we sucked. There is a big issue in having your number 1 mid getting 19 a game. It means your losing the first touch at every reset 2:1. He is also no longer on a rookie wage. We're paying him 200k+ more a year to get his arse kicked by better players.

He isn't leading our midfield this year, but he isn't provide anything more. If your opponent knows that you can't get an offensive win and that even if you do it won't be damaging they can play with increased aggression.

We have a shit midfield right now, the question of do we have the ingredients to turn salvage something this year is something the MC has to work on. I'd be interested to see how Atkins went at VFL level to see if he stands out( Bruhn and Bowes had the ball on string on their games in the VFL last year), last we lost this weekend with a very strong squad, quite embarrassing a for a few who would should have wanted to demonstrate that they might be a contribute to fixing our problems.

 

[volcboy]

I agree with the premise of this thread. I have been saying for weeks that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result; pretty much what our coaches and selection committee have been doing.

We may be good enough to sneak into the 8, but we are nowhere near good enough to win a flag in 2024 (Sydney and Carlton both have our measure easily, amongst others). Lets find out what we have on our list and plan for 2025 and beyond.

We've been smashed in the midfield all year; where is the harm in bringing in VFL midfielders (Hardie, Parfitt, Clohesy, Mannagh, Stevens) to see how they go? Not all at once, but lets give them all a look to see what we go with in 2025. We know Holmes can go, but who else do we have? Keep MOC out of there - he is slow and indecisive. Play him back or in the VFL.

The tagger is back in vogue - Mullin did the job vs. Port Adelaide, so give him some more run-with roles, starting with Merrett this week.

Atkins tries his guts out in the middle, but isn't the future there - shift him to the backline to lock down on the oppositions best small forward.

Put the line through a few - Tuohy is a brilliant clubman, but after seeing his refusal to chase Hollands as he ran into goal in Q4 last week finished him for me. What does he bring us on a wing that Knevitt doesn't? Give the young guy a chance, as he is the future.

I didn't hate SDK in the ruck, but he needs help. Neale as a backup, or SDK backing up Conway are the two I'd look at. Keep Blicavs out of there; he isn't the future and we've milked his athleticism for too many years it seems given the way he has played in 2024.

Humphries in for Duncan. Duncan is now as slow as treacle, and his kicking has lost its penetration/accuracy. Duncan has been great, but he won't be part of our next premiership team. Humphries might be.

Stewart is frustrated, and rightly so. He was illegally held and harassed off the ball by Cincotta last week (I was at the game and watching the match up with interest). Free him up. Try him through the middle. Try him as a tagger. Try him leading out from full forward. Leave Zuthrie to play his role at half back, or bring in O'Connor to play back there.

I would much rather see us losing with a bunch of young guys learning important lessons on the field than watch frustrated old guys who are past their best get frustrated and give up, which is what I saw last week.

 

[DanA]

Not what I am professing though. Not to punt all veterans for youth.
I actually want us to move past role players that either need more time developing and try someone else for a while, or move past role players over the hill.

Aka; Blicavs, Atkins, Mullin, MOC. Give Humphries, Mannagh, Hardie, Knevitt a crack. They couldn't really make us worse.

Why is Mullin in there? He looks a jet in his 2nd year and is developing. I reckon he’ll be great.

And my point is we can’t afford to weaken the midfield further. To develop kids you still need to be somewhat competitive, I think we’d be appreciably worse if we did as you suggest to the point where it’s detrimental to the development of those currently getting a game.

 

[thejester]

Why is Mullin in there? He looks a jet in his 2nd year and is developing. I reckon he’ll be great.

And my point is we can’t afford to weaken the midfield further. To develop kids you still need to be somewhat competitive, I think we’d be appreciably worse if we did as you suggest to the point where it’s detrimental to the development of those currently getting a game.

He's averaging ten disposals this year and had three against Carlton.

 

[Warhorse]

You're implying that what we have now is all we'll ever have and we're banned from drafting and trading over the coming years.

I'm not implying anything.

Dropping Blicavs or Atkins when our midfield is so thin would be insane. Atkins is even having a decent year just underrated cause his stats are hurt by playing a bunch in the back line.

When was the last game Atkins beat his direct opponent?

He's averaging ten disposals this year and had three against Carlton.

And don't forget bags of goals kicked on him

 

[Warhorse]

Still don't understand why they don't trial Stewart in the middle. Getting tagged every game in the backline is not working

 

[CHAWKTS]

Still don't understand why they don't trial Stewart in the middle. Getting tagged every game in the backline is not working

I think they will

 

[Lana]

Why is Mullin in there? He looks a jet in his 2nd year and is developing. I reckon he’ll be great.

And my point is we can’t afford to weaken the midfield further. To develop kids you still need to be somewhat competitive, I think we’d be appreciably worse if we did as you suggest to the point where it’s detrimental to the development of those currently getting a game.

At this point seeing him in the 22 hurts me the same way it did when we selected Sav.

 

[DanA]

He's averaging ten disposals this year and had three against Carlton.

He’s been playing the Bews role. That’s pretty normal IMO.

 

[DanA]

Still don't understand why they don't trial Stewart in the middle. Getting tagged every game in the backline is not working

I do think that’d be worthwhile and I’ve never understood it. Maybe it didn’t go well trialing it in preseason? I feel like he’s got all the attribute though and Zuth looked more than capable as the QB/intercept defender l.

 

[DanA]

At this point seeing him in the 22 hurts me the same way it did when we selected Sav.

It feels a bit damned if you do, damned if you don’t. You want young players picked but it hurts you watching them develop.

I think Mullin has some attributes worth persisting with. He is lightening quick, strong, and likes to compete. He’s just not quite there in terms of game awareness and positioning himself. He’ll get that much faster playing AFL footy.

 

[Lana]

It feels a bit damned if you do, damned if you don’t. You want young players picked but it hurts you watching them develop.

I think Mullin has some attributes worth persisting with. He is lightening quick, strong, and likes to compete. He’s just not quite there in terms of game awareness and positioning himself. He’ll get that much faster playing AFL footy.

So did Okunbor. We have a large group of kids who could have gotten that shot. If we have to give a defender a shot Humphries knows what he is doing offensively defensively, be is small but he isn't smaller than Z.Guthrie we he was blooded. Atkins and O'Connor can fill out any rotation if we wanted to blood a player pretty much anywhere.

It is self sabotage at selection. We should have been in win now mode. He isn't even solid at VFL level yet. A deficiency in game awareness and positioning can be offset by better athleticism to an extent, but the base level of athleticism at the AFL is pretty strong to begin with. But those split seconds kill you especially where the defence isn't being protected. You can hide someone as a small forward. You can't in our defence. Everyone needs to know what they're doing. Playing a player down hurts, we're already another player down in the aggregate forward of the ball.

 

[DanA]

So did Okunbor. We have a large group of kids who could have gotten that shot. If we have to give a defender a shot Humphries knows what he is doing offensively defensively, be is small but he isn't smaller than Z.Guthrie we he was blooded. Atkins and O'Connor can fill out any rotation if we wanted to blood a player pretty much anywhere.

It is self sabotage at selection. We should have been in win now mode. He isn't even solid at VFL level yet. A deficiency in game awareness and positioning can be offset by better athleticism to an extent, but the base level of athleticism at the AFL is pretty strong to begin with. But those split seconds kill you especially where the defence isn't being protected. You can hide someone as a small forward. You can't in our defence. Everyone needs to know what they're doing. Playing a player down hurts, we're already another player down in the aggregate forward of the ball.

I don’t think it’s as bad as a man down and I had him with votes against Port. I remember similar comments about both the Guthrie boys too.

 

[Footy Smarts]

It is self sabotage at selection. We should have been in win now mode. He isn't even solid at VFL level yet.

This is completely wrong. After the Hawthorn game he went back to the VFL for 3 matches and received coaches votes in 2 of those. He looked a class above that level.

 

[Lana]

I don’t think it’s as bad as a man down and I had him with votes against Port. I remember similar comments about both the Guthrie boys too.

If what he did against Port was repeatable they would tried it again, young mid has a big first half, and gets a fresh opponent and goes quiet. It was the football equivalent of crazy fu.

The Guthrie unpopularity during their development had nothing to do with their football brain. That is a lazy comparison.
He is a non-KPP Sav. Has all of the physical attributes, none of the footy IQ skills.

 

[Lana]

This is completely wrong. After the Hawthorn game he went back to the VFL for 3 matches and received coaches votes in 2 of those. He looked a class above that level.

We played the teams currently ranked 14, 17, 18 on the VFL ladder, the team won by like an average of 70 points. Good for him to get coaches votes. He should stand out in those circumstances, there is near zero pressure. He certainly isn't classy and burns people with his pace to get out of trouble. He can get away with it against guys who are at near GFL level.

 

[Footy Smarts]

We played the teams currently ranked 14, 17, 18 on the VFL ladder, the team won by like an average of 70 points. Good for him to get coaches votes. He should stand out in those circumstances, there is near zero pressure.

Come on Lana you made a bullshit claim. He's clearly been a standout at VFL level in recent games. Criticise him all you want but don't make shit up like "He isn't even solid at VFL level yet".