EDFL moves Part 2

[Grandale]

Very interested to hear of anyone that's heard anything re coaching or player movements in the Essendon District Football League.
Know of Alan Ezard going to Pascoe Vale and the whisper that Minton-Connell is heading back to Abers, but keen to hear any other news.

 

[illbethere]

Re: EDFL moves

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........mutton.

any news bout douttas first night preseason down the marby foot bridge???????

Firstly congrats to the leugue if they do introduce the new under 18 comp. They could work out grounds to play on.

In regards to doutta's heard there where no new recruits... also heard they have lost a couple of decent players already one big name i heard the other night was james philpot.

 

[KFC80]

Re: EDFL moves

why was the other thread closed ?

 

[mindbender]

Re: EDFL moves

Firstly congrats to the leugue if they do introduce the new under 18 comp. They could work out grounds to play on.

In regards to doutta's heard there where no new recruits... also heard they have lost a couple of decent players already one big name i heard the other night was james philpot.

I also think the leauge should introduce a rule which states that unless a player changes his address, if registered with a club at or after the age of 14, that he can't be cleared to another EDFL club until the age of 21.

This will avoid clubs poaching other clubs junior players and reward a club who has developed and supported a junior player who then moves away to another club for money.

 

[onthepunt]

Re: EDFL moves

I also think the leauge should introduce a rule which states that unless a player changes his address, if registered with a club at or after the age of 14, that he can't be cleared to another EDFL club until the age of 21.

This will avoid clubs poaching other clubs junior players and reward a club who has developed and supported a junior player who then moves away to another club for money.

Thats a pretty dumb comment. What if a young kid who has just left cannons and couldn't cut it at VFL level wants to play the highest level he can ? Why would he want to play B grade if he is good enough to play A grade ?

 

[deanos_28]

Re: EDFL moves

Why would he want to play B grade if he is good enough to play A grade ?

loyalty?

 

[mindbender]

Re: EDFL moves

Thats a pretty dumb comment. What if a young kid who has just left cannons and couldn't cut it at VFL level wants to play the highest level he can ? Why would he want to play B grade if he is good enough to play A grade ?

Interested in your definition of dumb.

How do you expect B Grade clubs to progress to A Grade then?

Would you consider the possibility that B Grade clubs who develop great juniors, that have a crack at the Cannons/VFL etc.... and don't make it, then go back to their home club, that that B Grade club might then make it to A Grade without contributing to the Gloabal Financial Crisis.

People are concerned with the US Sub-Prime Lending policies. Forget about that...EDFL player payments are the real cause of this problem.

 

[bricksta]

Re: EDFL moves

loyalty?

dirty word that one...!

 

[The G Ghost]

Re: EDFL moves

dirty word that one...!

Couldn't agree with you more Bricksta !!!!!

 

[The G Ghost]

Billythekid
BigFooty Member

Adelaide
hockey

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: cooper st
Re: EDFL moves
Quote:
Originally Posted by illbethere
Firstly congrats to the leugue if they do introduce the new under 18 comp. They could work out grounds to play on.

In regards to doutta's heard there where no new recruits... also heard they have lost a couple of decent players already one big name i heard the other night was james philpot.

Big name or big kid?????? i say the latter, he played 2 good games this year and one was in the inter league which got him in the edfl team of the year, as we know the other ruckman were injured or didn't make themselves available for that match so philpot got the job, took his chance well done, however he did win the b&f the year before so i think is still a player douttas should keep but has the buck taken over????? Gets them all in the end.
Who else has gone???
------------------------------------------

The Coach !!!! hahahaha

 

[The G Ghost]

Gday all, it's been a while since I've posted on the site, and I just wanted to sign off with a message to all that sent me messages of support after the Stars and I went our seperate ways. You don't get much of a chance to say thanks or goodbye, when things work out the way they did between myself & the Club.
So I wanted to thank you all for the support given to me over my time with the club.
I fully enjoyed my four years at Douttas, and met a lot of wonderful Members, Supporters, and Coaches (Clarkey, Alphabet, Kade, Docs, Sammy & the players, Mona & Reece - thanks boys), as well as some great opposition people. I understand why we had to go our seperate ways, and hope the Club under John Barnes & Brett Anderson, have a wonderful 2009 and gets the Stars back into the top four where WE belong. Thanks to the people who stood alongside me at Douttas, and thanks to the players for allowing me to be in charge for the last couple of years. Best of luck to all at Douttas for 2009, and I look forward as a spectator, to watching our competition grow stronger.
Cheers.

 

[drjack]

This money thing and loyalty business between playing A Grade or B Grade has been flogged to death.

Factually, right now, there will be 10 A Grade and 14 B Grade Teams. Where your Club plays in any given year depends on a number of key factors.

How well organised is your Club ?
How strong is the Playing groups relationship with each other ?
How strong and efficient is your Committee ? Do you have split Committees (Senior & Juniors), each with their own agendas.
How active is the search for Sponsorship ? eg. Do you decipher and network your membership list for potential sponsorship opportunities ?
Are the " Right' Senior and Junior Coaches appointed for your particular Club ?
Are your social functions and Player get togethers positive and a success ?
Is there a "buzz" around your Club ?

There is a saying that "Success breeds Success" and unfortunately with 24 Clubs in the Competition there will always be the perception of, The Have's and Have Not's.

Nothing can be handed on a platter. Energy needs to be focused in the right areas and have the right mix of a large amount of people around your Club prepared to give up their time and volunteer their services in their area of expertise to grow and succeed.

Some Clubs do this really well and are the envy of others, whilst others try to replicate, but are hindered by not enough Members assisting them or are surrounded by Individuals who say, "We should do this and should do that", but don't actually do anything physical themselves.

 

[mindbender]

Re: EDFL moves

There is a number of reasons why this wouldnt work:

1. If a club fail to manage/support a junior player properly, what happens?

2. If the coach is a ********?

3. If he has personal reasons for leaving ie. parents split up etc.

4. If he thinks he can further his development at another club?

etc. etc.

however, I see your point and frustration. This second u/18 comp will be good because kids can get a game every week and dont leave for another club or comp.

Another good option would be to extend the u/18s to under 19s to match the amateur comp so kids dont go to amateurs to get one more year of under age footy. But unfortunately Strathmore have strongly opposed this in the past (not sure what their stance is now)

I agree. There are a stack of logistics that need to be ironed out but I still feel conceptually this or something similar is worth a look.

To your points pasted below, which are all valid I would say this...

1. If a club fail to manage/support a junior player properly, what happens?
The player can still leave the club if he feels the club is not the best fit for him but not to an A Grade club offering Bags, Boots, Tracksuits etc within the same leauge.

2. If the coach is a ********?
Get rid of the coach.

3. If he has personal reasons for leaving ie. parents split up etc.
As per item 1.

4. If he thinks he can further his development at another club?
This is the crux of my argument. From the age of 14 most kids, if they are any good are going to be spending a reasonable amount of time at junior development squads at one of the TAC clubs. It's these kids that are oftern poached by financially stronger clubs with incentives, some of which are detailed above.

There is no doubt, as with any new or innovative idea there are obsticles, blockers and considerations to be addressed and worked through. But apart from a sh!t load of whining on this forum I haven't seen any better ideas about how to protect clubs at lower levels that develop great juniors only to see them play in A Grade premierships with a very full hip pocket.

All I see on here is a leauge admistration that believes a conveluted points system that can be easily manipulated as a way to make the competition closer.

I like your thinking though. These points need to be made visible and then worked through but I think it's just too easy to walk away from this problem, bitch about it and put it in the too hard basket...

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Re: EDFL moves

Im guessing most clubs start full pre season tonight.
Will see a few blokes struggling I'd reckon.

 

[berzerk22]

Re: EDFL moves

I agree. There are a stack of logistics that need to be ironed out but I still feel conceptually this or something similar is worth a look.

To your points pasted below, which are all valid I would say this...

1. If a club fail to manage/support a junior player properly, what happens?
The player can still leave the club if he feels the club is not the best fit for him but not to an A Grade club offering Bags, Boots, Tracksuits etc within the same leauge.

2. If the coach is a ********?
Get rid of the coach.

3. If he has personal reasons for leaving ie. parents split up etc.
As per item 1.

4. If he thinks he can further his development at another club?
This is the crux of my argument. From the age of 14 most kids, if they are any good are going to be spending a reasonable amount of time at junior development squads at one of the TAC clubs. It's these kids that are oftern poached by financially stronger clubs with incentives, some of which are detailed above.

There is no doubt, as with any new or innovative idea there are obsticles, blockers and considerations to be addressed and worked through. But apart from a sh!t load of whining on this forum I haven't seen any better ideas about how to protect clubs at lower levels that develop great juniors only to see them play in A Grade premierships with a very full hip pocket.

All I see on here is a leauge admistration that believes a conveluted points system that can be easily manipulated as a way to make the competition closer.

I like your thinking though. These points need to be made visible and then worked through but I think it's just too easy to walk away from this problem, bitch about it and put it in the too hard basket...

Have observed with interest discussions re junior player retainment etc ....

I was part of a club this year in NSW that uses what they call a "providence fund" as an incentive for jnr players to stay with their club through to seniors.

I will try to outline it in it's simplest form as it is quite complex.

Players are paid a set amount of money for all games played with the club for u18's, reserve grade and 1st grade games, but they cannot access any of this money until they are 21 years old.

Our club used something like $25 per u18 game, $35 per reserve grade and $50 per senior game. (not really sure on actual amounts but it will do to illustrate how it works)

So for example if Player A plays 40 u18 games, 10 reserve grade games and 50 senior games by the time they turn 21 they will be entitled to the following payments.

40 x $25 = $1000
10 x $35 = $350
50 x $50 = $2500
total = $3850

Not a bad one off payment for a 21 year old.

Why its such a good idea

1. Amounts will be much higher for a real young gun who starts playing senior footy very young (eg 16). Could be almost $10,000 for gun players.
2. When a player gets to 18-20 and other clubs start talking to them or poaching them they will have to keep in mind the money they may forfeit by leaving. ie An offer of $100 per game to change clubs would never get you to leave if your PF (providence fund) balance was over $5000!
3. By the time they reach 21, assumin they stayed to get their payout, they are entrenched in the club and won't want to leave!
4. It is good for the club also as it means that all player payments are actual only fictional until the player reaches 21. Meaning your club gets to hold/invest 6 years of player payments before needing to pay it out.
5. It rewards loyalty in the player and increases the incentives for the club to develop their own juniors!
6. It rewards even mediocre players for their loyalty. Too many clubs ignore the contribution of lower rated u18 players and young reserve graders. This addresses that!

Some things to be careful of under this system.

1. It requires accurate and competent adminsitration.
2. The club must ensure it has the money to payout the crop of 21 year old coming through otherwise every player will lose faith in the system and leave. MAJOR POINT OF CONSIDERATION!
3. Some clubs now could simply increase their offer to account for the size of the PF payout. A real gun could easily be offered more in one year (ie $400 per game for one season = $8000) than the total amount of their PF payout

Some other thoughts

1. It would be easy to combat big money offers by simply increasing the payments per match within your clubs PF. I would imagine the Greenvales of this world could easily accomodate a u18 - $50, 2nds-$75 and 1sts-$100 structure which could make the PF payout of a top ranked jnr closer to $15000 to $20000 at age 21.
2. I would suggest that clubs pay less per u18 and 2nds game and more per senior game to ensure they were only paying top dollar for the best kids.
3. Our club had some clauses in it to protect players who had to leave the club for "personal reasons" or "to pursue higher levels of footy (VFL etc) so it is possible for each club to structure it accordingly?

Remember
If the player leaves the club before they reach that age they forfeit ALL the money they have earnt over that time. So for many clubs it could save them alot on player paymnets too if they have a high turnover of their young players???


Sorry this has ended up so long - but thought I'd throw it into the debate as a possible direction to head??

 

[Prophetic]

Re: EDFL moves

I agree. There are a stack of logistics that need to be ironed out but I still feel conceptually this or something similar is worth a look.

To your points pasted below, which are all valid I would say this...

1. If a club fail to manage/support a junior player properly, what happens?
The player can still leave the club if he feels the club is not the best fit for him but not to an A Grade club offering Bags, Boots, Tracksuits etc within the same leauge.

2. If the coach is a ********?
Get rid of the coach.

3. If he has personal reasons for leaving ie. parents split up etc.
As per item 1.

4. If he thinks he can further his development at another club?
This is the crux of my argument. From the age of 14 most kids, if they are any good are going to be spending a reasonable amount of time at junior development squads at one of the TAC clubs. It's these kids that are oftern poached by financially stronger clubs with incentives, some of which are detailed above.

There is no doubt, as with any new or innovative idea there are obsticles, blockers and considerations to be addressed and worked through. But apart from a sh!t load of whining on this forum I haven't seen any better ideas about how to protect clubs at lower levels that develop great juniors only to see them play in A Grade premierships with a very full hip pocket.

All I see on here is a leauge admistration that believes a conveluted points system that can be easily manipulated as a way to make the competition closer.

I like your thinking though. These points need to be made visible and then worked through but I think it's just too easy to walk away from this problem, bitch about it and put it in the too hard basket...

I'd be interested to know any examples of clubs poaching under age players because I havn't heard of many cases? You do hear rumours though. There are heaps of cases where a junior of a club moves to another senior club.

So do you think that Aaron Ramsey, Adam Winter should be at Westmeadows? The peaks boys should be at Oak Park? Trav Jorgenson should be at Aberfeldie etc.?

Sometimes the reality is that a junior player may improve more with a more competitive environment and perhaps Cannons and co. pay more attention to A grade comps? Im not saying thats a good thing.

Maybe the EDFL could explore more flexible rights/contracts for clubs. For example, perhaps a loan-type situation could occur where a talented junior from a b grade club who wants to leave is loaned to an A grade. The junior player gets the benefit of a better standard but all ties with the club that nurtured his development are not severed and a return to that club is much more simple in future. Likewise, the A grade club that is benefiting from the talented player coming to them is obliged to loan players back to the b grade club or maybe help them in some way - that may be a bit far-fetched but it might work in some cases? Its a far better result than a kid just leaving a club completely...

 

[puffpuffgivemo]

Re: EDFL moves

I'd be interested to know any examples of clubs poaching under age players because I havn't heard of many cases? You do hear rumours though. There are heaps of cases where a junior of a club moves to another senior club.

So do you think that Aaron Ramsey, Adam Winter should be at Westmeadows? The peaks boys should be at Oak Park? Trav Jorgenson should be at Aberfeldie etc.?

Sometimes the reality is that a junior player may improve more with a more competitive environment and perhaps Cannons and co. pay more attention to A grade comps? Im not saying thats a good thing.

Maybe the EDFL could explore more flexible rights/contracts for clubs. For example, perhaps a loan-type situation could occur where a talented junior from a b grade club who wants to leave is loaned to an A grade. The junior player gets the benefit of a better standard but all ties with the club that nurtured his development are not severed and a return to that club is much more simple in future. Likewise, the A grade club that is benefiting from the talented player coming to them is obliged to loan players back to the b grade club or maybe help them in some way - that may be a bit far-fetched but it might work in some cases? Its a far better result than a kid just leaving a club completely...

Prophetic

Any reports on Abers first night last night.

Heard Rocket Van Reit and Barham were there as well as a couple of handy players from some river clubs ie Echuca and Albury!

Fill us in champ!

 

[mindbender]

Re: EDFL moves

I'd be interested to know any examples of clubs poaching under age players because I havn't heard of many cases? You do hear rumours though. There are heaps of cases where a junior of a club moves to another senior club.

So do you think that Aaron Ramsey, Adam Winter should be at Westmeadows? The peaks boys should be at Oak Park? Trav Jorgenson should be at Aberfeldie etc.?

Sometimes the reality is that a junior player may improve more with a more competitive environment and perhaps Cannons and co. pay more attention to A grade comps? Im not saying thats a good thing.

Maybe the EDFL could explore more flexible rights/contracts for clubs. For example, perhaps a loan-type situation could occur where a talented junior from a b grade club who wants to leave is loaned to an A grade. The junior player gets the benefit of a better standard but all ties with the club that nurtured his development are not severed and a return to that club is much more simple in future. Likewise, the A grade club that is benefiting from the talented player coming to them is obliged to loan players back to the b grade club or maybe help them in some way - that may be a bit far-fetched but it might work in some cases? Its a far better result than a kid just leaving a club completely...

While I would love to have Adam Winter and Aaron Ramsey back in the Tigers jumper I'm not suggesting they would still be there at this stage if the rules I have mentioned were implemented.

However I just think that a guy just out of U18's is more likley to be enticed away from this junior club for a couple of $100's at 17 or 18 when they are studying or during an apprenticeship rather than at 21 when when most would have reasonable full time employment.

I believe in most cases the reason for the players you have mentioned above left the club is due to the fact that, they rightly, wanted to play at the highest level. What is frustrating for me as a Westmeadows player and supporter is that over the last 10 or so years 23 times ex-Westmeadows players have played in A Grade Grandfinals. Myself included. Keep all of those players at the club and we are no longer the B Grade club that people feel they need to leave to play their best footy. It would be interesting to see if other B Grade clubs have similar stats.

I think this discussion though is great and some of the ideas that have been put forward indicate there are valid reasons for looking into this a little deeper.

I terms on poached juniors.....I could drop a few names but that is not really the point of this....

 

[bricksta]

Re: EDFL moves

Any news on new players to clubs or players who have left clubs?

 

[Prophetic]

Re: EDFL moves

Prophetic

Any reports on Abers first night last night.

Heard Rocket Van Reit and Barham were there as well as a couple of handy players from some river clubs ie Echuca and Albury!

Fill us in champ!

52 at training - great turn out! A new gun fitness coach as well from Coburg.

Rocket was just about first there so he's keen. Barham was there and so were a lot of the under 18's which is great including the adonis himself big Woody. Also Robbie Gileno was there which is good to see.

Will find out about any new faces for ya Puff but Barham, Van Reit and some keen u/18 premiership players is a good start.

 

[i know]

Re: EDFL moves

52 at training - great turn out! A new gun fitness coach as well from Coburg.

Rocket was just about first there so he's keen. Barham was there and so were a lot of the under 18's which is great including the adonis himself big Woody. Also Robbie Gileno was there which is good to see.

Will find out about any new faces for ya Puff but Barham, Van Reit and some keen u/18 premiership players is a good start.

van reit will be a good player for abers but barham will strugle big time in the edfl

 

[the eye]

Re: EDFL moves

van reit will be a good player for abers but barham will strugle big time in the edfl

Big call saying Barham will struggle. I have seen him play a couple of times over the last couple of years and seemed to do pretty good from memory and would expect him to do well in the EDFL.

Also believe that he was on Collingwoods list at some stage so someone must have thought highly of him.

You are right on Van riet though, should be a every good player for abers and if they can get another on baller to help out he should be in for a big year.

 

[footy1236]

Does anyone know if D.S are trying to get Zac Dawson back to the club???

 

[i know]

Re: EDFL moves

Big call saying Barham will struggle. I have seen him play a couple of times over the last couple of years and seemed to do pretty good from memory and would expect him to do well in the EDFL.

Also believe that he was on Collingwoods list at some stage so someone must have thought highly of him.

You are right on Van riet though, should be a every good player for abers and if they can get another on baller to help out he should be in for a big year.

keep an eye on abers best an fairest at the end of the year

 

[daringclass]

Re: EDFL moves

keep an eye on abers best an fairest at the end of the year

why,is,ad,gonna.win,it,hahahahha,got,ya