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EDFL Premier Division

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Trent the flight Steward said:
Turbo how would it be feasible that a metro club would be allowed higher points than a country club over 300kms from melbourne with a declining population? If the points system is to work all metro clubs should be cut at 30 points, with the allowance of 1marquee player that doesn't get added to their points, no club in victoria will be allowed over 50 as there is no point in having a state wide points system
Click to expand...

Trent- the allocated points will be based on the level of competition I believe. The EDFL premier could not work to 30points under the current player ratings. The top 6 clubs would run out with 8-10 players each week mate. If you recruit 4 players out of the VFL system it's 20points. Say a couple from other clubs and it's 28 points. Well thereabouts..
The EDFL, GFL, GVFL etc will have 60points most likely. If your higher now you need to bring it down over time or seen to be making an effort.
It's really a trial process in the first few years.
The points system just encourages you to pay your good talented homegrowns over their value to keep them, so your points stay within the cap or play kids that are not ready therefore the standard drops and clubs fall away. Im not sure what's wrong with the competition as it is. Yes certain clubs have gone crazy and spending ridiculous amount of money but not sure what the points system brings bar more headaches for clubs.
The Afl needs to be looking into the junior structures at clubs and why some clubs struggle to get juniors. The juniors need to be fixed and levelled out not the seniors. The juniors are the clubs future not stopping talent from higher leagues coming into your league.
 
The points allocated should be no higher then 50. Then it will make clubs starting to play home grown players from next year as not many clubs are under the 50 points. It will give a chance for the likes of west coburg, apw, and the club that gets promoted to at least next year with the likes of Avondale, strathmore. It may also bring sides like abers, Keilor and pacco back to the back. The only issue with this is Greenvale who over the years have always played 8-10 homegrowns every week maybe able to keep there whole playing this as they are the only top 4 club under the 50 points.
 

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EDFL knowitall said:
The points allocated should be no higher then 50. Then it will make clubs starting to play home grown players from next year as not many clubs are under the 50 points. It will give a chance for the likes of west coburg, apw, and the club that gets promoted to at least next year with the likes of Avondale, strathmore. It may also bring sides like abers, Keilor and pacco back to the back. The only issue with this is Greenvale who over the years have always played 8-10 homegrowns every week maybe able to keep there whole playing this as they are the only top 4 club under the 50 points.
Click to expand...

Well that's my point!!
There will be a top 3 and the rest will so far behind it won't be funny.. Will be a huge gap.
Keilor, Abers, Greenvale & even Strathmore have some good players they recruited in but have played at their clubs for 3 years so will be worth low points. They won't be able to let them go due to being low points. Top them up with some juniors and they play finals for years to come. How do you see the rest compete??
Clubs like Avondale, Airport West will struggle to compete without being able to recruit players in. Even Pacco juniors are a few years away from getting a high number of juniors coming up. Most of the talented ones end up in the TAC and then try VFL but no allowance for this in the points system.
What if you get someone from interstate or country?? I agree recruiting from the same league division is not a good thing but other states, country or leagues should be low points as maybe they are moving for a reason like family, work etc.
 
Turbos mail said:
Hey KB, very good reply and I did say that Greenvale were clearly the better side and deserved the win.
I still think the umpiring was well below par for the match of the round. I'm not sure why an umpire needs to be chatting to a player during quarter time when their side is up by 4 goals. I was actually walking past and stopped for a few seconds and was bewildered by what they were talking about. Clearly know each other well. He should be concentrating on umpiring.

Mate I seen the whole incident with Ross and it was a horrible pass that put him in s bad area but Lower was 3rd person in (so it was 3 on 1) and clearly lined him up from 10mts away and ran directly at him. He actually didn't have possesion of the footy as it spilled out. I personally think that although it was fair in a way it was clearly deliberate and meant to take him out. I'm actually disappointed that no one remonstrated with him. It was forceful contact on a small player. He wouldn't have done it to a bigger player that's my point.

I like Tom Hill and his a good kid. But not sure he will play again this year and maybe will have next year off. Seen his parents were extremely concerned and told some friends that's it for him for a while. To many concussions from just minor falls on the turf. They believe it's the shock of hitting the turf creates dizziness. Interesting..

*KB can I ask you why did the game stop as he didn't leave on a stretcher? The ball was up in Paccos area. But stop the game! At least they were worried about the kid but left Ross on the ground whilst Pacco defends 1 short. Just can't understand it at all. Bit bewildering again.

But hey we move on..

Two Planks- wasn't drinking heavy mate. Just don't like seeing quality ball players being targetted unfairly. That's all.

Couple of good young kids at Greenvale so your future is bright..
Click to expand...


Turbo, you have claimed for so long that Paccos new recruits play for the jumper and only the jumper but for the players to not remonstrate when the gun player of the team is " unfairly " cleaned up tells me that's not the case.
I'd be worried if I were Pacco.
Seems like the wheel nuts could be starting to loosen up.
There's a real similarity between Pacco now and Avondale of 2 years ago.

I hope you've prepared for the future the way Abers, Marby, Greenve and Keilor have. Otherwise we could see the same thing happening to Paccos as we are seeing at Avondale.

I'd Pacco do drop off will you hang around or will you move on to another top 4 team ?
 
Turbos mail said:
Hey KB, very good reply and I did say that Greenvale were clearly the better side and deserved the win.
I still think the umpiring was well below par for the match of the round. I'm not sure why an umpire needs to be chatting to a player during quarter time when their side is up by 4 goals. I was actually walking past and stopped for a few seconds and was bewildered by what they were talking about. Clearly know each other well. He should be concentrating on umpiring.

Mate I seen the whole incident with Ross and it was a horrible pass that put him in s bad area but Lower was 3rd person in (so it was 3 on 1) and clearly lined him up from 10mts away and ran directly at him. He actually didn't have possesion of the footy as it spilled out. I personally think that although it was fair in a way it was clearly deliberate and meant to take him out. I'm actually disappointed that no one remonstrated with him. It was forceful contact on a small player. He wouldn't have done it to a bigger player that's my point.

I like Tom Hill and his a good kid. But not sure he will play again this year and maybe will have next year off. Seen his parents were extremely concerned and told some friends that's it for him for a while. To many concussions from just minor falls on the turf. They believe it's the shock of hitting the turf creates dizziness. Interesting..

*KB can I ask you why did the game stop as he didn't leave on a stretcher? The ball was up in Paccos area. But stop the game! At least they were worried about the kid but left Ross on the ground whilst Pacco defends 1 short. Just can't understand it at all. Bit bewildering again.

But hey we move on..

Two Planks- wasn't drinking heavy mate. Just don't like seeing quality ball players being targetted unfairly. That's all.

Couple of good young kids at Greenvale so your future is bright..
Click to expand...

Pacco's 18's and Reserves are pretty light on at the moment also, that would have to be a worry.
Have some of the old school Pacco homegrowns moved on since the spending started ?
 
Turbos mail said:
Well that's my point!!
There will be a top 3 and the rest will so far behind it won't be funny.. Will be a huge gap.
Keilor, Abers, Greenvale & even Strathmore have some good players they recruited in but have played at their clubs for 3 years so will be worth low points. They won't be able to let them go due to being low points. Top them up with some juniors and they play finals for years to come. How do you see the rest compete??
Clubs like Avondale, Airport West will struggle to compete without being able to recruit players in. Even Pacco juniors are a few years away from getting a high number of juniors coming up. Most of the talented ones end up in the TAC and then try VFL but no allowance for this in the points system.
What if you get someone from interstate or country?? I agree recruiting from the same league division is not a good thing but other states, country or leagues should be low points as maybe they are moving for a reason like family, work etc.
Click to expand...
Nothing would really change in that regards, there has bee a huge gap between the top sides and the rest for quite a while (in both this league and many others)
All it ensures will be that clubs create an environment where players stick fat (Strathmore have done this well) and that young fellas get a shot at playing for their senior side.
What it means is that a club like West Coburg made of predominately local lads doesn't have to play against an all star team, of sorts, every other week.
 
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Abers
5 x senior teams (Premier, Premier Reserves, U18's Premier & Div 2)
3 x U16's
4 x 14's
Keilor
5 x senior teams
3 x U16's
4 x 14's
Greenvale
5 x senior teams
2 x U16's
2 x 14's
Strathmore
4 x senior teams
2 x U16's
3 x 14's
Pascoe Vale
3 x senior teams
1 x U16's
2 x 14's
 
puffpuffgivemo said:
Abers
5 x senior teams (Premier, Premier Reserves, U18's Premier & Div 2)
3 x U16's
4 x 14's
Keilor
5 x senior teams
3 x U16's
4 x 14's
Greenvale
5 x senior teams
2 x U16's
2 x 14's
Strathmore
4 x senior teams
2 x U16's
3 x 14's
Pascoe Vale
3 x senior teams
1 x U16's
2 x 14's
Click to expand...
So after reading those numbers it's obvious that to really even up the competition the league will have to allocate less points to Abers ,Keilor & co because they are getting their local players from a much larger pool and won't need to recruit outsiders to remain competitive ..... Or they could start at the other end and put a cap on the number of teams allowed in each age group so that all clubs had a similar chance ..... Easy isn't it
 
tigertony said:
So after reading those numbers it's obvious that to really even up the competition the league will have to allocate less points to Abers ,Keilor & co because they are getting their local players from a much larger pool and won't need to recruit outsiders to remain competitive ..... Or they could start at the other end and put a cap on the number of teams allowed in each age group so that all clubs had a similar chance ..... Easy isn't it
Click to expand...

How can you penalise clubs who work their backsides off to get where they are today!

It wasn't like this 20 years ago I can tell you but with decades of hard work from many still involved at the club we have an established and successful junior program which is flowing through to our seniors.

Reap what you sow!!!
 
puffpuffgivemo said:
How can you penalise clubs who work their backsides off to get where they are today!

It wasn't like this 20 years ago I can tell you but with decades of hard work from many still involved at the club we have an established and successful junior program which is flowing through to our seniors.

Reap what you sow!!!
Click to expand...
Umm, hate to rain on your parade puffpuff but it's sew mate not sow!
 

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puffpuffgivemo said:
How can you penalise clubs who work their backsides off to get where they are today!

It wasn't like this 20 years ago I can tell you but with decades of hard work from many still involved at the club we have an established and successful junior program which is flowing through to our seniors.

Reap what you sow!!!
Click to expand...
Oh sorry for my mistake,there I was thinking you had the good of local footy in the whole community at heart but it seems your post was one of simply bragging ...... It will be ok to penalise other clubs with the points system but leave us alone eh... ... Other clubs don't work hard to keep their juniors, yeah sure...what makes it harder is clubs with big junior numbers already, actively recruiting from neighbouring clubs who may be struggling at that time...... It seems you think football success should be restricted to a privaliged few .... Not that you've experienced the ultimate success at edfl level unless you were there 40 odd years ago
 
tigertony said:
Oh sorry for my mistake,there I was thinking you had the good of local footy in the whole community at heart but it seems your post was one of simply bragging ...... It will be ok to penalise other clubs with the points system but leave us alone eh... ... Other clubs don't work hard to keep their juniors, yeah sure...what makes it harder is clubs with big junior numbers already, actively recruiting from neighbouring clubs who may be struggling at that time...... It seems you think football success should be restricted to a privaliged few .... Not that you've experienced the ultimate success at edfl level unless you were there 40 odd years ago
Click to expand...

Anyone who thinks that clubs should continue to be able to grow their junior programs with no restrictions ultimately must think that football is about survival of the fittest. Football should be a game where communities should be able to have clubs represent them and have a sustainable future. It should be a game where people can support their junior teams and senior teams and watch kids come through the ranks.

There is no doubt some clubs have benefited from dedicated volunteers and loyal supporters. But these same clubs (in establishment areas) also benefit from having children from middle class families flock to their club.

Often wealthy families with terrific business networks and others with links to the AFL and TAC. It is not a mystery why Keilor, Aberfeldie, Strathmore and Greenvale dominate the junior grades. Look at who runs the clubs and their junior clubs.

Well-educated, well connected, wealthy (relatively) demographics. Will Jacana ever have the same support base as Strathmore? Will Tullamarine ever have the same business networks as Aberfeldie? Or will West Coburg ever obtain the same sponsorship dollars as Greenvale? Not on your life.

And no one is saying they should. But it is reality.

What kills smaller clubs is not the lack of money, networks or facilities. What kills them is their local boys and girls fleeing to these clubs because they want success/better shot at AFL/be coached by a Daniher, Paxman, West etc.

Parents want their kids strutting around in GV/Abers/S'More jacket and hanging out with other well to do parents. And it's human instinct. Problem is human instinct isn't always what is good for us. No one wants to pay taxes. AFL clubs don't want a salary cap or a draft. But it makes us all better off. And creates a something that is fair and always interesting.

Piss off the points system or local salary cap. They are ridiculous. And will be bent, rorted or outright broken.

Fix the hoarding of junior talent. No more than 2 junior teams in any one age bracket. Simple. Done and dusted.

Tell all clubs to be compliant by 2018. Top clubs will still attract the top talent but they won't break other clubs and the kids have to find alternatives.
 
product2 said:
Anyone who thinks that clubs should continue to be able to grow their junior programs with no restrictions ultimately must think that football is about survival of the fittest. Football should be a game where communities should be able to have clubs represent them and have a sustainable future. It should be a game where people can support their junior teams and senior teams and watch kids come through the ranks.

There is no doubt some clubs have benefited from dedicated volunteers and loyal supporters. But these same clubs (in establishment areas) also benefit from having children from middle class families flock to their club.

Often wealthy families with terrific business networks and others with links to the AFL and TAC. It is not a mystery why Keilor, Aberfeldie, Strathmore and Greenvale dominate the junior grades. Look at who runs the clubs and their junior clubs.

Well-educated, well connected, wealthy (relatively) demographics. Will Jacana ever have the same support base as Strathmore? Will Tullamarine ever have the same business networks as Aberfeldie? Or will West Coburg ever obtain the same sponsorship dollars as Greenvale? Not on your life.

And no one is saying they should. But it is reality.

What kills smaller clubs is not the lack of money, networks or facilities. What kills them is their local boys and girls fleeing to these clubs because they want success/better shot at AFL/be coached by a Daniher, Paxman, West etc.

Parents want their kids strutting around in GV/Abers/S'More jacket and hanging out with other well to do parents. And it's human instinct. Problem is human instinct isn't always what is good for us. No one wants to pay taxes. AFL clubs don't want a salary cap or a draft. But it makes us all better off. And creates a something that is fair and always interesting.
I like it!
Piss off the points system or local salary cap. They are ridiculous. And will be bent, rorted or outright broken.

Fix the hoarding of junior talent. No more than 2 junior teams in any one age bracket. Simple. Done and dusted.

Tell all clubs to be compliant by 2018. Top clubs will still attract the top talent but they won't break other clubs and the kids have to find alternatives.
Click to expand...

Best Post in a long time!
 
Last edited:
product2 said:
Anyone who thinks that clubs should continue to be able to grow their junior programs with no restrictions ultimately must think that football is about survival of the fittest. Football should be a game where communities should be able to have clubs represent them and have a sustainable future. It should be a game where people can support their junior teams and senior teams and watch kids come through the ranks.

There is no doubt some clubs have benefited from dedicated volunteers and loyal supporters. But these same clubs (in establishment areas) also benefit from having children from middle class families flock to their club.

Often wealthy families with terrific business networks and others with links to the AFL and TAC. It is not a mystery why Keilor, Aberfeldie, Strathmore and Greenvale dominate the junior grades. Look at who runs the clubs and their junior clubs.

Well-educated, well connected, wealthy (relatively) demographics. Will Jacana ever have the same support base as Strathmore? Will Tullamarine ever have the same business networks as Aberfeldie? Or will West Coburg ever obtain the same sponsorship dollars as Greenvale? Not on your life.

And no one is saying they should. But it is reality.

What kills smaller clubs is not the lack of money, networks or facilities. What kills them is their local boys and girls fleeing to these clubs because they want success/better shot at AFL/be coached by a Daniher, Paxman, West etc.

Parents want their kids strutting around in GV/Abers/S'More jacket and hanging out with other well to do parents. And it's human instinct. Problem is human instinct isn't always what is good for us. No one wants to pay taxes. AFL clubs don't want a salary cap or a draft. But it makes us all better off. And creates a something that is fair and always interesting.

Piss off the points system or local salary cap. They are ridiculous. And will be bent, rorted or outright broken.

Fix the hoarding of junior talent. No more than 2 junior teams in any one age bracket. Simple. Done and dusted.

Tell all clubs to be compliant by 2018. Top clubs will still attract the top talent but they won't break other clubs and the kids have to find alternatives.
Click to expand...

Some of your points are valid but your last comment is what I don't think is workable or fair.

Kids have to find alternatives?? Maybe I'm different but why should I have to force my boys down the road to Marbi Park or up Cooper St. to Douttas because the league has a cap on how many teams Aberfeldie can have in each age bracket.

I have empathy for a club like Lancefield in the RDFL who appear to struggle at senior level and only have a couple of junior teams therefore need to recruit players but I also have great respect and admiration for the people at clubs like Keilor, Greenvale, Marbi and ours etc. who've worked tirelessly for years to get where they are today.

If you have kids and you've an alliance to a local club but your only option is the club next door or worse still further away what would you do?

I see it being even more detrimental to participation levels.

What will happen when clubs shop earlier than others and get their female footy in order? Will they be blamed for that too and penalised?
 
L 7 Weeney said:
Turbo, you have claimed for so long that Paccos new recruits play for the jumper and only the jumper but for the players to not remonstrate when the gun player of the team is " unfairly " cleaned up tells me that's not the case.
I'd be worried if I were Pacco.
Seems like the wheel nuts could be starting to loosen up.
There's a real similarity between Pacco now and Avondale of 2 years ago.

I hope you've prepared for the future the way Abers, Marby, Greenve and Keilor have. Otherwise we could see the same thing happening to Paccos as we are seeing at Avondale.

I'd Pacco do drop off will you hang around or will you move on to another top 4 team ?
Click to expand...
L 7 Weeney said:
Pacco's 18's and Reserves are pretty light on at the moment also, that would have to be a worry.
Have some of the old school Pacco homegrowns moved on since the spending started ?
Click to expand...

Hey my old Weeney, good to hear from you again.
Gee whiz I'm copping it from everywhere with regards to my view on the incident. Look mate if he would have made "any" contact to his head he would have got weeks as per the afl rules. That's fact! It was the only bump he laid all game so you be the judge. Or you believe others who write that Greenvale don't tag players. Now what a load of absolute rubbish.

Ok let me answer your other points.
-Marbys reserves and 18s are in a similar ladder position to Paccos, so not sure if you are better placed for future success than Pacco's.
- Marby lost a few local players during there successful years between 07-10. Lots of recruits you guys got in. Lots of similarities however you were bankrolled by GA. "But" you did win 3 premierships and rebuilt your juniors on the back of that success remember.
- mate I started following you guys after your premiership years and followed Pacco from late 2013 so I'm not sure your statement is correct. BTW Abers, Greenvale, Strathmore wouldn't have me, nor would I go to them. I don't mind Keilor but happy to follow the mighty Pacco.

Don't count them out yet, or in the coming years. I'm sure you being a good Marby boy would rather follow Pacco in the finals than the other 3 as they are all your enemy. You guys hate a couple of these teams with a passion... Ah memories..

Good to old pal..
 
Turbos mail said:
Hey my old Weeney, good to hear from you again.
Gee whiz I'm copping it from everywhere with regards to my view on the incident. Look mate if he would have made "any" contact to his head he would have got weeks as per the afl rules. That's fact! It was the only bump he laid all game so you be the judge. Or you believe others who write that Greenvale don't tag players. Now what a load of absolute rubbish.

Ok let me answer your other points.
-Marbys reserves and 18s are in a similar ladder position to Paccos, so not sure if you are better placed for future success than Pacco's.
- Marby lost a few local players during there successful years between 07-10. Lots of recruits you guys got in. Lots of similarities however you were bankrolled by GA. "But" you did win 3 premierships and rebuilt your juniors on the back of that success remember.
- mate I started following you guys after your premiership years and followed Pacco from late 2013 so I'm not sure your statement is correct. BTW Abers, Greenvale, Strathmore wouldn't have me, nor would I go to them. I don't mind Keilor but happy to follow the mighty Pacco.

Don't count them out yet, or in the coming years. I'm sure you being a good Marby boy would rather follow Pacco in the finals than the other 3 as they are all your enemy. You guys hate a couple of these teams with a passion... Ah memories..

Good to old pal..
Click to expand...
and if he pulled out a gun and shot him he'd be getting locked up, except he didn't.. you're clutching at straws mate.
 
puffpuffgivemo said:
Some of your points are valid but your last comment is what I don't think is workable or fair.

Kids have to find alternatives?? Maybe I'm different but why should I have to force my boys down the road to Marbi Park or up Cooper St. to Douttas because the league has a cap on how many teams Aberfeldie can have in each age bracket.

I have empathy for a club like Lancefield in the RDFL who appear to struggle at senior level and only have a couple of junior teams therefore need to recruit players but I also have great respect and admiration for the people at clubs like Keilor, Greenvale, Marbi and ours etc. who've worked tirelessly for years to get where they are today.

If you have kids and you've an alliance to a local club but your only option is the club next door or worse still further away what would you do?

I see it being even more detrimental to participation levels.

What will happen when clubs shop earlier than others and get their female footy in order? Will they be blamed for that too and penalised?
Click to expand...


Puff...I can address your concerns one at a time.

Yes there will be some initial kids who get told they cannot be accommodated by clubs who have excessive numbers. This is unfortunate and some kids tears will be shed in year 2018 but as adults we understand the greater good and realise the competition is worth preserving. This can be explained to kids. And once this teething stage is over this will no longer be an issue.

But from that point on everyone understands the rules and parents will make the required adjustments. Kids love football will stay involved. Another idea is to start in Year 1 with restrictions in U16's and work your way down each year after so the number of kids impacted is reduced as typically it is U10's and U12's that have 3,4,5 teams at one club. I prefer the tough version as we would all get over it quicker.

This is not an easy solution. And it is not about punishing clubs that are well run and have terrific support. Successful clubs deserve to be commended. We are talking about keeping clubs alive with long histories that are inexorably linked to their communities. Once a club is gone... it's gone. This is about creating a stronger EDFL. Both junior and senior competitions.

Unsure of the reference to Lancefield who are in the RDFL. I don't know anything about the junior set ups in that league. But there are countless examples that are probably similar in the EDFL in all 3 divisions. Remember this is about keeping the EDFL family strong, giving opportunities to clubs to experience success and forge loyalties with their juniors which may result in senior success.

Clubs should still be able to buy big name blow ins. I reckon it's great. Watching Reimers take hangers and give the crowd the bird is terrific. So is seeing Browne, Warren and Lower dominate. Great stuff. Fists full of dollars. Good on them. They give something most can't.

Fix the juniors. The rest will take care of itself.
 
I think you'll find next season the EDFL are looking at implementing and odd number age groups. So instead of 10, 12, 14, 16 & 18's.
It will be 11, 13, 15, 17 & 19.
 
tigertony said:
No no wouldn't be locked up.... Out on bail the way it works these days.... Still wasn't good though
Click to expand...

Karl from the kebab shop tell me last night he very much like a bit of Ol big footy banter and say that tigertony and turbo mails are alike much same person... Lol
I say to Karl I doubt very that turbos mailing would be under another alas..
Turbo or Tony can you tell me so I can tell Karl...
 
EDFL knowitall said:
I think you'll find next season the EDFL are looking at implementing and odd number age groups. So instead of 10, 12, 14, 16 & 18's.
It will be 11, 13, 15, 17 & 19.
Click to expand...

lady at the lolly shop said that maybe this will come to play in 2017 not next yr,,, would be good for league though as can't loose kids to vafa....
 

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